Leinster Vs Munster buildup

I will never buy a car in Mallow.

corny

mangobob wrote: »

Ref was poor for both sides. Munster can feel hard done by in some ways, but the ref was not the reason they lost.

This is it. Whitehouse always gives the losing side ammunition because he makes so many poor calls during the game. He's a terrible ref.

The winning side shrug their shoulders and the losing side lose the plot. Happens all the time.

iminterestd0

it's always the refs fault. ha

cameramonkey

some munster fans posting have really no dignity. they should take their beating and realize the better team won.

The ref wasnt great for either side, O'Mahony's illegal binding meant munster had an unfair advantage in all the scrums this where many of their opportunities were coming from. This was a repeated offense in every scrum that was not picked up. Don't hear the Munster fans whinging about that.

Both sides get away with foul play, that is rugby.

Munster fans need to get on with it and stop the whinging, its not dignified.

iminterestd0

The Specialist wrote: »

Nothing inadequate about any of our team tonight, not really a fair game when we get one of our top players sent off for **** all 15 mins in to match. Not really a fair game when the referee is a Leinster fanboy blind to clear and blatant fouling from them. Ye only won because of the ref, don't make any mistake about that.

2nd best.

Faugheen

Akrasia wrote: »

yeah. Cause when one team is camped on the other teams 5 metre line spending 5-10 minutes dominating scrums and the other team gives away 4 penalties in a row and the referee doesn't give a yellow card. That's good refereeing

And when one team gets a penalty just before half time that costs 3 points when there wasn't even a hint of a foul

And when one team wins multiple legitimate turnovers but the referee blows penalties against them, over and over and over again...

Yeah, the referee didn't influence the outcome of the game at all

Dominating scrums with an illegal bind, but we’ll just ignore that will we?

Phonehead

Ross Byrne was hugely impressive tonight, a very Sexton like performance.

Akrasia

cameramonkey wrote: »

some munster fans posting have really no dignity. they should take their beating and realize the better team won.

The ref wasnt great for either side, O'Mahony's illegal binding meant munster had an unfair advantage in all the scrums this where many of their opportunities were coming from. This was a repeated offense in every scrum that was not picked up. Don't hear the Munster fans whinging about that.

Both sides get away with foul play, that is rugby.

Munster fans need to get on with it and stop the whinging, its not dignified.

how was his binding illegal?

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

No obvious injuries either? Both teams get through pretty unscathed?

Ideal.

I would have concerns over Ross Byrne. He looked very disappointed coming off. Looked to tweak a calf on that final penalty.

The Specialist

The Specialist wrote: »

Nothing inadequate about any of our team tonight, not really a fair game when we get one of our top players sent off for **** all 15 mins in to match. Not really a fair game when the referee is a Leinster fanboy blind to clear and blatant fouling from them. Ye only won because of the ref, don't make any mistake about that.

This makes it all the better. I hope you're absolutely fuming.

sullivlo

Akrasia wrote: »

how was his binding illegal?

Binding under Archer instead of onto his second row, so it was like having 3 second rows instead of two.

Exclamation Marc

Very magnanimous interview from Van Graan, refusing to blame the referee.

Pity some of their fans don't follow suit.

PetKing

Worrying end for Matthewson. Hopes it's a dead leg and nothing more serious.

Faugheen

Akrasia wrote: »

how was his binding illegal?

He was binding underneath the prop instead of around Kleyn’s back, essentially making himself a third second row and giving the scrum on that side more momentum in the shove.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

how was his binding illegal?

The players in the scrum bind in the following way:
The props bind to the hooker.
The hooker binds with both arms. This can be either over or under the arms of the props.
The locks bind with the props immediately in front of them and with each other.
All other players in the scrum bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm.

POM was bound around Archer's outside leg. He never made contact with a second row at any point. His binding was objectively illegal under the laws of the game, there is absolutely no way to argue otherwise.

Squidgy Black

I was relatively impressed by Mathewson. Considering he's only in the country a few weeks and this was his second game, he went quite well I thought.

cameramonkey

Akrasia wrote: »

how was his binding illegal?

How do you feel about his illegal binding? do you think that it unfairly influenced the results of these scrums?

Buer

twinytwo wrote: »

Totally wrong call for "deliberate" knock on just after half time results in a 14 point swing and ruins the game imo

Earls was offside. If it wasn't a deliberate knock on, it was certainly a knock on and would have been a penalty due to Earls' role regardless.

mangobob

The Specialist wrote: »

No doubt in my mind we would have beaten ye with a different ref,

I believe you. That is, I believe that there is no doubt in your mind. That's what makes it funny

don't flatter yourself. It will be a different story in December.

:pac:

Ah...bitterness, ref-blaming and one-eyed delusion. Its just like the good old days when this rivalry actually mattered to people lol

But seriously I have no doubt you will get one back. Munster are a better team with Carbery at 10. I was impressed with them tonight.

sullivlo

Buer wrote: »

I would have concerns over Ross Byrne. He looked very disappointed coming off. Looked to tweak a calf on that final penalty.

Leo said cramp for Byrne so hopefully that’s all it was.

Akrasia

Ernest Shy Script wrote: »

POM was bound around Archer's outside leg. He never made contact with a second row at any point. His binding was objectively illegal under the laws of the game, there is absolutely no way to argue otherwise.

Ok, fair enough.

Just goes to show how awful Whitehouse is as a referee that he didn't pick up on it for the entire game.

randomname2005

Buer wrote: »

Earls was offside. If it wasn't a deliberate knock on, it was certainly a knock on and would have been a penalty due to Earls' role regardless.

Lads on eir seem to think it came off his head, but didn't get a good view

thecomedian

Just saw back the earlier decisions, the ref was terrible. Easily cost Munster at least seven points.
Our defense was excellent. Our gameplay was not so good, Munster should never have that amount of ball.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Earls was offside. If it wasn't a deliberate knock on, it was certainly a knock on and would have been a penalty due to Earls' role regardless.

An even if you don't give it for being offside, it was still a knock on which meant a Leinster scrum deep in Munster territory.

There was no way that was a Munster try at all so we can give the stupid 14 point swing guff a rest.

sullivlo

Buer wrote: »

Earls was offside. If it wasn't a deliberate knock on, it was certainly a knock on and would have been a penalty due to Earls' role regardless.

Exactly. Earls was offside too. Two infractions. Penalty would be the result regardless.

sullivlo

Akrasia wrote: »

Ok, fair enough.

Just goes to show how awful Whitehouse is as a referee that he didn't pick up on it for the entire game.

“I’ve been proven wrong, but I’ll continue to beat the same drum”

mangobob

Ernest Shy Script wrote: »

there is absolutely no way to argue otherwise.

I think you are underestimating the resolve of some of the posters on this thread :P

randomname2005

randomname2005 wrote: »

Lads on eir seem to think it came off his head, but didn't get a good view

This puts Earls offside.

cameramonkey

Akrasia wrote: »

Ok, fair enough.

Just goes to show how awful Whitehouse is as a referee that he didn't pick up on it for the entire game.

I think there is no point in complaining from a Leinster point of view.
O'Mahony got away with it and it probably resulted in about 14 points for Munster, thats the game and munster got away with it.


Lets move along.



I hope munster give Exeter a good beating, I think they are in with a good chance.

Akrasia

Ernest Shy Script wrote: »

An even if you don't give it for being offside, it was still a knock on which meant a Leinster scrum deep in Munster territory.

There was no way that was a Munster try at all so we can give the stupid 14 point swing guff a rest.

A good referee would have let play continue and call it back afterwards to have a proper look.

He blew the whistle when Munster were in the middle of a counter attack on the basis of a flag raised on the sideline.

PetKing

cameramonkey wrote:

I hope munster give Exeter a good beating, I think they are in with a good chance.

We may be all but potemtially scrum halfless with Williams left *sobs*

Akrasia

sullivlo wrote: »

“I’ve been proven wrong, but I’ll continue to beat the same drum”

The drum is that whitehouse is a terrible referee

I'm not saying Munster would have won. I'm saying it would have been a fair contest if the referee wasn't so awful

Faugheen

Akrasia wrote: »

A good referee would have let play continue and call it back afterwards to have a proper look.

He blew the whistle when Munster were in the middle of a counter attack on the basis of a flag raised on the sideline.

A counter attack from a clear knock on though.

I don’t know why you’re complaining about what Whitehouse didn’t do. Munster were never getting anything out of that sequence so it’s completely irrelevant.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

A good referee would have let play continue and call it back afterwards to have a proper look.

He blew the whistle when Munster were in the middle of a counter attack on the basis of a flag raised on the sideline.

"He got it right but he should have gotten it right different!"

What a load of rubbish. The correct call was made, it was never ever EVER a Munster try. Get over it.

sullivlo

Akrasia wrote: »

A good referee would have let play continue and call it back afterwards to have a proper look.

He blew the whistle when Munster were in the middle of a counter attack on the basis of a flag raised on the sideline.

... which was proven to be the correct call! If not for the deliberate knock on (penalty), Earls being offside (penalty) or an accidental knock on (scrum). Stopping play was the correct call.

sullivlo

Akrasia wrote: »

The drum is that whitehouse is a terrible referee

I'm not saying Munster would have won. I'm saying it would have been a fair contest if the referee wasn't so awful

Terrible, perhaps. But for many of the calls this evening that you deem to be wrong, by the letter of the law he was correct. Maybe your red tinted glasses have a few too many scratches in them.

Buer

Akrasia wrote: »

A good referee would have let play continue and call it back afterwards to have a proper look.

He blew the whistle when Munster were in the middle of a counter attack on the basis of a flag raised on the sideline.

Don't be ridiculous. His assistant communicated an infringement and he reacted accordingly. You honestly expect him to put that on hold and decide he'll check later on?

And if play went on for more than two phases? His remit to review is gone.

Burkie1203

Akrasia wrote: »

The drum is that whitehouse is a terrible referee

I'm not saying Munster would have won. I'm saying it would have been a fair contest if the referee wasn't so awful

But he allowed Munster scrum illegally all game which was an area of strength for Munster. So surely on the balance of sh1tness it doesnt matter

POM (i think) could have been binned just prior to Lowe's 2nd try for a cynical ruck offence.

Plenty of debatable decisions in any game.

razorblunt

Moving away from Whitehouse and poor calls, but on a similar note, there were a lot of on the neck tackles from both teams that went unpunished.

Porter there someone judo style by the neck at one stage.


I was impressed with Goggin, again, though, he seems to have really pushed on.

Akrasia

sullivlo wrote: »

Exactly. Earls was offside too. Two infractions. Penalty would be the result regardless.

So the referee happened to get the correct outcome by luck even though his actual decision was ludicrous.

I don't think there was a 14 point swing here, or that the earls penalty try/yellow card was wrong. I think the referee being a wild card, pinging imagined fouls while allowing actual infringements makes it impossible for a fair contest.

Faugheen

razorblunt wrote: »

Moving away from Whitehouse and poor calls, but on a similar note, there were a lot of on the neck tackles from both teams that went unpunished.

Porter there someone judo style by the neck at one stage.


I was impressed with Goggin, again, though, he seems to have really pushed on.

I was saying this after Stander’s try when Byrne had an arm around the neck. Loads of neck rolling going on. POM did it at least twice.

Weepsie

Just saw the first try now on tg4? Seemed very, very harsh.

That said munster gave away a silly penalty when the game was still there to be won

Faugheen

Akrasia wrote: »

So the referee happened to get the correct outcome by luck even though his actual decision was ludicrous.

I don't think there was a 14 point swing here, or that the earls penalty try/yellow card was wrong. I think the referee being a wild card, pinging imagined fouls while allowing actual infringements makes it impossible for a fair contest.

I’d rather he give the correct outcome regardless of how he gets there.

I really don’t know what your point is here.

Weepsie

Weepsie wrote: »

Just saw the first try now on tg4? Seemed very, very harsh.

That said munster gave away a silly penalty when the game was still there to be won

Not really. Lowe was tackled off the ball. It was fairly clear-cut.

Akrasia

sullivlo wrote: »

Terrible, perhaps. But for many of the calls this evening that you deem to be wrong, by the letter of the law he was correct. Maybe your red tinted glasses have a few too many scratches in them.

what?
Which bad calls did he make that were correct by 'the letter of the law'?

Weepsie

Ernest Shy Script wrote: »

Not really. Lowe was tackled off the ball. It was fairly clear-cut.

It really Didn't look like he was tackled at all. But I guess there was enough contact to put him off.

Buer

Anyway, trying to move past the completely over the top reaction from many, it was a great contest. Munster really showed up and put it up physically. They're not going to come up many sides better than Leinster this season and should certainly be in the mix for honours. I thought Scannell and Beirne were excellent. It was, by a distance, the best I've seen from Beirne since coming back to Ireland. I thought all the locks on the field were excellent, in fact.

Munster really have a spark with Carbery, Conway, Earls and Sweetnam but they don't know how to use them yet. So much pace and attacking potential but not a lot of end product there yet. Carbery is going well but he's not going to be the difference to Munster this season anyway. I think he'll come along a lot with exposure at 10 but some of his decision making was a bit off and he was lucky not to get picked off for a 7 pointer by Lowe. He's defintiely looking more assured there though and this was a big test that he came through solidly. I don't think he was helped by a relatively uncreative midfield outside him.

Part of the reason that Munster didn't cut loose in the backs was Robbie Henshaw. I thought he was superb. His defensive reads and decisions were top class and he shut things down repeatedly before they could get going. He brings the physicality of a blindside to midfield. When you look at the match stats, you'd scarcely believe that Leinster could have won (32% territory, 151m only with the ball in hand) but their defence was outstanding. The hunger shown was ferocious and there were multiple moments where carriers were driven backwards and Munster lost momentum. The two second rows were animals in their work rate defensively and the flankers were up there with them. Porter added a lot when he came on also.

If Leinster are challenging teams to beat them by putting up a few tries, then I don't see them losing to many this season. There's just an insane appetite in the team right now and it's scary to think that guys like Fardy, Furlong, Conan, Sexton, Ringrose and Larmour were all left out of the 23 entirely tonight.

Akrasia

Faugheen wrote: »

I’d rather he give the correct outcome regardless of how he gets there.

I really don’t know what your point is here.

The point is that a stopped clock is right twice a day. If he made a bad call it's a bad call. If there happens to have been another reason why the outome was right, but it wasn't part of his decision making process, then you might as well have a random number generator blowing the whistle.

I would like to see that incident again in slow motion to see if there was any actual knock on by a munster player. I think if the leinster player lost it in the tackle, it's a knock on sometimes, but not always and it was definitely worthy of a TMO review.

Faugheen

Akrasia wrote: »

The point is that a stopped clock is right twice a day. If he made a bad call it's a bad call. If there happens to have been another reason why the outome was right, but it wasn't part of his decision making process, then you might as well have a random number generator blowing the whistle.

I would like to see that incident again in slow motion to see if there was any actual knock on by a munster player. I think if the leinster player lost it in the tackle, it's a knock on sometimes, but not always and it was definitely worthy of a TMO review.

But you were initially trying to say that Munster were robbed of a potential try.

Now that you accept that Munster weren’t going to get a try out of it anyway you’re still trying to say he should have played on and gone back to it, which would have been 100% the wrong call.

Just move on, man. The right outcome was reached which was a penalty for Leinster.

cameramonkey

Weepsie wrote: »

Just saw the first try now on tg4? Seemed very, very harsh.

That said munster gave away a silly penalty when the game was still there to be won

Not harsh at all. Lowe was about to catch a the ball and no one was in front of him, certain try. Earls interfered with him before he got the ball making it impossible for him to score.


What is harsh about that, it was clear cut.