Charlie Haughey - Yay or Nay

Creative83

I think Charlie did some good for the country when he was in office... the IFSC project for example & his devotion to trying to find a way to solve the problems in Northern Ireland.


The free for all benefits he doled out did help an awful lot of people at the time (free travel for pensioners, medical cards like confetti for example) though these have bitten us in the ass now... they can't realistically be taken away from even the wealthiest in Irish society without political suicide.


But his corruption is where I personally draw the line. No matter how much good he did, I despise his legacy because of this.


So would you give him a pass on his good deeds or sink him on corruption alone?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Creative83 wrote: »

I think Charlie did some good for the country when he was in office... the IFSC project for example & his devotion to trying to find a way to solve the problems in Northern Ireland.


The free for all benefits he doled out did help an awful lot of people at the time (free travel for pensioners, medical cards like confetti for example) though these have bitten us in the ass now... they can't realistically be taken away from even the wealthiest in Irish society without political suicide.


But his corruption is where I personally draw the line. No matter how much good he did, I despise his legacy because of this.


So would you give him a pass on his good deeds or sink him on corruption alone?

Nope, sorry. It'll just encourage his succesors.

Zebra3

He was a criminal and should have gone to jail.

zapitastas

Creative83 wrote: »

I think Charlie did some good for the country when he was in office... the IFSC project for example & his devotion to trying to find a way to solve the problems in Northern Ireland.


The free for all benefits he doled out did help an awful lot of people at the time (free travel for pensioners, medical cards like confetti for example) though these have bitten us in the ass now... they can't realistically be taken away from even the wealthiest in Irish society without political suicide.


But his corruption is where I personally draw the line. No matter how much good he did, I despise his legacy because of this.


So would you give him a pass on his good deeds or sink him on corruption alone?

Was he devoted to solving the problems in the north? Can't think of much that he accomplished in relation to this, save for using his faux nationalism to garner votes

Mr. Incognito

He was the poster child for modern cryonism.

He tied to oust the leader of the party with a Coup.

He had Bertie signing blank cheque books for him.

His practice of give away budgets for politically expediency has done untold damage

His cynacism knew no bounds.

He took credit for the hard work of others.

He was corrupt and everyone knew it which legitimised it.

It will take many many generations to fix.

In Iceland they jailed the politicians and the bankers. Here they retired and protected them.

Thats his legacy.

Creative83

Zebra3 wrote: »

He was a criminal and should have gone to jail.

Absolutely, he should have been held accountable!


Just curious about your sig which says watch Israels terrorists in action or something.


Have you any link also for Hezbollah or the PLO? Is it just a one way street?


Just asking, that's all

Odelay

The only good he wanted to do was for himself.

Junkyard Tom

He invented the term 'helicopter parent'.

Atoms for Peace

He turned the troubles up to eleven! Maybe read up on the arm's trial, he was involved in bringing in arms which lead to the split in the IRA and creation of the PIRA.
This was a handy distraction for left wing elements while feeding his nationalist demagoguery.

Zebra3

Creative83 wrote: »

Absolutely, he should have been held accountable!


Just curious about your sig which says watch Israels terrorists in action or something.


Have you any link also for Hezbollah or the PLO? Is it just a one way street?


Just asking, that's all

People defending their homeland from foreign colonisation are not terrorists.

He did the legacy of Machiavelli proud.

Church on Tuesday

The man was morally bankrupt and he was also a hypocrite.

He tried to curry favor with the people by throwing out all that the OP has mentioned already to the general public and it worked for a while until he was later found out.

Leave aside that the fact that he's a lightning rod and ogre for the Blueshirts, Haughey ultimately only really cared about Haughey.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

I'm 38, growing up in the 80s the man had presence, even through a dodgy 20 inch crt tv with rabbit ears reception, even when I didn't know who or what he was or did, he was certainly a charismatic man and I can see why people voted for him.

Those closest to him either went along with him or went against him, like Dessie O'Malley. Plenty rode his coat tails.

Yeah, he was a scumbag who should have went to jail probably, but I'm of the firm belief that nothing actually gets done in a democracy without a few wheels being greased along the way.

gifted

Josephine Greasy Greyhound wrote: »

I'm 38, growing up in the 80s the man had presence, even through a dodgy 20 inch crt tv with rabbit ears reception, even when I didn't know who or what he was or did, he was certainly a charismatic man and I can see why people voted for him.

Those closest to him either went along with him or went against him, like Dessie O'Malley. Plenty rode his coat tails.

Yeah, he was a scumbag who should have went to jail probably, but I'm of the firm belief that nothing actually gets done in a democracy without a few wheels being greased along the way.

To be fair ....he did more than just grease a few wheels..lol lol

Ulysses Gaze

A complete, corrupt scumbag who deserves nothing but contempt from everyone.

Anyone honouring, or trying to exonerate, make excuses or try and lessen the scumbagery of the corrupt Haughey, deserves the same level of contempt levelled at them.

mikemac2

Arise and follow Charlie

Dammit he had a catchy jingle

The Presidental candidates need one of these

James Brown

Creative83 wrote: »

I think Charlie did some good for the country when he was in office... the IFSC project for example & his devotion to trying to find a way to solve the problems in Northern Ireland.


The free for all benefits he doled out did help an awful lot of people at the time (free travel for pensioners, medical cards like confetti for example) though these have bitten us in the ass now... they can't realistically be taken away from even the wealthiest in Irish society without political suicide.


But his corruption is where I personally draw the line. No matter how much good he did, I despise his legacy because of this.


So would you give him a pass on his good deeds or sink him on corruption alone?

The misery, the suicides, the ruined lives, no, sorry.
Him and his came first. His family should have been put out on the street and his state funeral an apology to the Irish people on behalf of Fianna Fail.

dxhound2005

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

He was the poster child for modern cryonism.

He tied to oust the leader of the party with a Coup.

He had Bertie signing blank cheque books for him.

His practice of give away budgets for politically expediency has done untold damage

His cynacism knew no bounds.

He took credit for the hard work of others.

He was corrupt and everyone knew it which legitimised it.

It will take many many generations to fix.

In Iceland they jailed the politicians and the bankers. Here they retired and protected them.

Thats his legacy.

It has taken a couple of generations to partially fix. But Haughey did not cause the mayhem. That was Jack Lynch with the 1977 election manifesto, which got the biggest ever majority in the history of the state. Abolishing property tax and motor tax was very popular with the voting public, but it ruined the funding base for local government. It wasn't too much later that surprise surprise hundreds of thousands were marching against 60% income tax for average workers.

If the system we shared with the North had been left in place, we could still have local councils collecting the bins, and water partially paid for from property tax. It would have to be set at a level in line with NI property tax, but all the nonsense since 1977 could have been avoided. Haughey did nothing to address the matter, but I don't blame him for the original sin.

James Brown

Josephine Greasy Greyhound wrote: »

I'm 38, growing up in the 80s the man had presence, even through a dodgy 20 inch crt tv with rabbit ears reception, even when I didn't know who or what he was or did, he was certainly a charismatic man and I can see why people voted for him.

Those closest to him either went along with him or went against him, like Dessie O'Malley. Plenty rode his coat tails.

Yeah, he was a scumbag who should have went to jail probably, but I'm of the firm belief that nothing actually gets done in a democracy without a few wheels being greased along the way.

That's why we'll always have Fianna Fail like a cancer.
He didn't need rip off the country to get policies through, give me a break. He was dirt.

NasserShammaz

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

A complete, corrupt scumbag who deserves nothing but contempt from everyone.

Anyone honouring, or trying to exonerate, make excuses or try and lessen the scumbagery of the corrupt Haughey, deserves the same level of contempt levelled at them.

yep sounds fair enough

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's why we'll always have Fianna Fail like a cancer.
He didn't need rip off the country to get policies through, give me a break. He was dirt.

show me a modern democracy that didn't start of as, or continues to be, a den of curruption. The republic is less than a hundred years old.

NasserShammaz

"we're livin beyond our means" says the fella who's getting his shirts handmade in France and owns a f*ckin Island. Look up shyster in the dictionary and there will be a picture of Charlie

MonkieSocks

Zebra3 wrote: »

He was a criminal and should have gone to jail.

And Not pass Go and Not collect €200."

dxhound2005

Josephine Greasy Greyhound wrote: »

show me a modern democracy that didn't start of as, or continues to be, a den of curruption.

New Zealand.

I know there's still a lot of anger with Bertie- some of it I understand, some of it I don't;- Haughey was many times worse than Bertie ever was.

NasserShammaz

Deleted User wrote: »

I know there's still a lot of anger with Bertie- some of it I understand, some of it I don't;- Haughey was many times worse than Bertie ever was.

he was the son he really wanted

NasserShammaz

NasserShammaz wrote: »

he was the son he really wanted

"the most skilful, the most devious, and the most cunning of them all." as Haughey aledegely said.

endacl

Nay! Nay as fcuk.

Prick.

Hector Bellend

I cant name one good thing he ever did for Ireland.

If anyone mentions free travel for the over 65's that doesnt count

Ohmeha

He was a crook, though I'd rather to forget about him and focus on the living FF/FG crooks we currently have wrecking our country again

Jimmy.

He rode all round him.

gk5000

Haughey, a self-serving stopped clock with some charisma.


He was around long enough so he had to do some good, but mostly he was just looking after himself and his cronies, and power for himself at all costs.


But he had some sort of personal charisma / lovable rogue so people lapped him up and still do. Mind you the opposition was pretty crap at the time.

Roger Hassenforder

Zebra3 wrote: »

He was a criminal and should have gone to jail.

He should be dug up and put in jail

Working class heroes

Ah he deserved all he got in Game of Thrones.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

dxhound2005 wrote: »

New Zealand.

marieholmfan

I don't think we know the half of it with Haughey. I am sure that he was personally involved in the Heroin trade for example and he may have been responsible for having Veronica Guerin killed. He definitely had something to do with the Stardust disco tragedy.

JupiterKid

An utterly corrupt bully and a symbol of everything that was wrong and bad about Ireland in the 1980s. Anyone trying to overlook his corruption is a complete fool and idiot.

Working class heroes

marieholmfan wrote: »

I don't think we know the half of it with Haughey. I am sure that he was personally involved in the Heroin trade for example and he may have been responsible for having Veronica Guerin killed. He definitely had something to do with the Stardust disco tragedy.

And JFK?

Lifted himself from nothing to the top through charisma, brains, effort, hunger, wiliness. Let the country go to f'cuk in the early 80s when he failed to follow up on his famous "tighten the belts" speech but got a grip on things in the late 80s after Fine Gael dithered about between '83 and '86. A man with few scruples. A weird and interesting guy.

Outlaw Pete

I'm from Swords and the old Kinsealy Rd used to be a death trap, filled with potholes, until that is a few months after his son built and moved into a new house on it and the , right up to just two feet after his gates, the road was suddenly newly repaired and tarmaced.

marieholmfan

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I'm from Swords and the old Kinsealy Rd used to be a death trap, filled with potholes, until that is a few months after his son built and moved into a new house on it and the , right up to just two feet after his gates, the road was suddenly newly repaired and tarmaced.

Which son? The castrato or the idiot?

dirtyden

Deleted User wrote: »

I know there's still a lot of anger with Bertie- some of it I understand, some of it I don't;- Haughey was many times worse than Bertie ever was.

Bertie was not as good at the old corruption as haughey, but he was utterly corrupt all the same.

We know of some of the dig outs he received from his builder and developer ‘friends ‘. There is almost certainly so much more that we don’t know about. He lied blatantly in front of the Mahon tribunal about not having bank accounts, winning fortunes on a horse he could not remember the name of. He even invented his qualifications. An utterly untrustworthy man.

nullzero

Anyone who endured the Ireland of his reign wouldn't entertain giving him a pass. The utter hypocrisy of the man, he was an out and out gangster.

dxhound2005

dirtyden wrote: »

Bertie was not as good at the old corruption as haughey, but he was utterly corrupt all the same.

We know of some of the dig outs he received from his builder and developer ‘friends ‘. There is almost certainly so much more that we don’t know about. He lied blatantly in front of the Mahon tribunal about not having bank accounts, winning fortunes on a horse he could not remember the name of. He even invented his qualifications. An utterly untrustworthy man.

Under his leadership FF won enough votes in three elections to stay in power from 1997 to 2011. That is a record bettered only by Dev. So the people must have thought he was doing something right.

Yer Da sells Avon

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I'm from Swords and the old Kinsealy Rd used to be a death trap, filled with potholes, until that is a few months after his son built and moved into a new house on it and the , right up to just two feet after his gates, the road was suddenly newly repaired and tarmaced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

marieholmfan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Under his leadership FF won enough votes in three elections to stay in power from 1997 to 2011. That is a record bettered only by Dev. So the people must have thought he was doing something right.

Now the same people get to die on trolleys in crumbling hospitals. Good enough for them? NO!

Corrupt, selfish, devious prick.

But strange to think that if MI5 had succeeded in their attempt to have him assassinated that he'd probably be remembered as a patriot, a martyr, a great honourable Republican! :pac:

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

i watched the 1hr primetime documentary on him from 1997: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZaEZREMpqc

it claims his average supporter down the country was shocked at the bribery claims and he lost support with them. was it not an open secret in the 80s that he was crooked?

applehunter

Flawed character but he had a vision for Ireland.

I don't see anyone in Irish politics that compare now.

marieholmfan

applehunter wrote: »

Flawed character but he had a vision for Ireland.

I don't see anyone in Irish politics that compare now.

Dennis O'Brien , Christy Kinahan?

harry Bailey esq

Creative83 wrote: »

I think Charlie did some good for the country when he was in office... the IFSC

Agreed, so what if he took a few bob along the way, he was a clever c*nt and he was a master in the art of negotiation, Pulled Ireland into the modern world. Back to brown envelopes, I don't call it bribery. I view it as greasing the wheels.