Spectator hit by ball loses sight in one eye

bmc58

hesker wrote: »

Sounds like he didn’t shout.

He did,more than once.

bmc58

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

Could we see the day where all fairways will be netted off?

Impractical due to the amount of ground to be covered.What about if all spectators had to wear an American Football style helmet?Silly??

The Premier Man

If you look at the video of it, koepka shouts fore a couple of times as do a few others on the tee

backspin.

I understand Keopka shouted fore but something like this has been in the pipeline for some time now. A lot of the Players on the PGA tour don't bother shouting fore. Its just sheer luck that someone over there hasn't been seriously injured.

Perhaps a way round the noise levels at 300 yards the marshals could shout and then the other marshals further down the fairway do likewise. The caddies should be involved too of course and especially the players.

prawnsambo

backspin. wrote: »

I understand Keopka shouted fore but something like this has been in the pipeline for some time now. A lot of the Players on the PGA tour don't bother shouting fore. Its just sheer luck that someone over there hasn't been seriously injured.

Perhaps a way round the noise levels at 300 yards the marshals could shout and then the other marshals further down the fairway do likewise. The caddies should be involved too of course and especially the players.

The guys on the tee indicate the direction with their signs. Doesn't need the 101 Dalmatians barking chain.

Niles Crane

I just read and article that states that around 1,750 people are injured due to batted balls at major league baseball games in America each year.

I wonder what the figure for the PGA and European tour is.

Rikand

Sue the players. Teach them to favour hitting the ball straight instead of hitting the ball long

uncommon_name

bmc58 wrote: »

Impractical due to the amount of ground to be covered.What about if all spectators had to wear an American Football style helmet?Silly??

Not silly if it stops crazy injuries like this.

slave1

Brooks' response on Twitter

slingerz

a terrible accident to have happen and an unfortunate blot on a fantastic weekend for golf. More so than the physical pain endured the thought of loosing ones sight is not something easily entertained.

I would expect the event to have substantial public liability insurance and would expect that the woman's medical bills will certainly be covered. Whether she receives further compensation i dont know

Irishdaywalker

for what it's worth . . I cannot see the lady winning a case if she takes legal action . . however I can see BK giving the lady money to cover all expenses and some extra. It's a terrible accident, shocking for her, but if legal action is taken I can't see it working in her favour.

kieran.

Irishdaywalker wrote: »

for what it's worth . . I cannot see the lady winning a case if she takes legal action . . however I can see BK giving the lady money to cover all expenses and some extra. It's a terrible accident, shocking for her, but if legal action is taken I can't see it working in her favour.

The is the liability blah from the Irish Open so I would tend to agree with the above..

Liability, Waiver and Indemnity

56. None of PGA European Tour, any Official Ticketing Agent, any Authorised Agent, the Venue or any Authorised Person shall be liable for any failure to perform any obligation under these Conditions to the extent that such failure is caused by Force Majeure.



57. EACH TICKET HOLDER ADMITTED TO THE VENUE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THEIR PRESENCE AND/OR MOVEMENT IN AND AROUND THE VENUE IS AT THEIR OWN RISK AND ACCEPTS THE RISKS AND DANGERS IN ATTENDING A GOLF TOURNAMENT, INCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING STRUCK BY AN ERRANT GOLF BALL AND THOSE RELATING TO ATTENDING A SPORTING COMPETITION IN A GOLF COURSE ENVIRONMENT EXPOSED TO THE NATURAL ELEMENTS. BY ENTERING THE VENUE ACKNOWLEDGING SUCH RISKS, ALL PERSONS ACCEPT THEIR OWN GENERAL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND OTHERS FROM SUCH RISKS SO FAR AS IS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE, IN PARTICULAR BY WEARING FOOTWEAR AND CLOTHING APPROPRIATE FOR PREVAILING WEATHER AND GROUND CONDITIONS.



58. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER PGA EUROPEAN TOUR NOR ANY OFFICIAL TICKETING AGENT NOR ANY AUTHORISED AGENT NOR ANY AUTHORISED PERSON NOR ANY PLAYER OR CADDIE PARTICIPATING IN THE EVENT SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE AND/OR HARM, INCLUDING (WITHOUT LIMITATION) BODILY OR MENTAL HARM, PERSONAL PROPERTY DAMAGE OR ANY LOSS, LOSS OF PROFIT, BUSINESS OR OPPORTUNITY, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL LOSS, SPECIAL DAMAGES OR ANY OTHER LOSS AND/OR HARM HOWSOEVER ARISING FROM THE EVENT (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ARISING AS A RESULT OF THE CANCELLATION OR POSTPONEMENT OF THE SAME IN EACH CASE) AND/OR OCCURRING DURING THEIR ATTENDANCE AT THE VENUE AND, WITHOUT LIMITATION TO THE FOREGOING, EACH TICKET HOLDER AGREES THAT NO CLAIM, COMPLAINT OR PROCEEDING WILL BE BROUGHT IN RELATION TO THE FOREGOING



59. EACH TICKET HOLDER SHALL INDEMNIFY AND HOLD PGA EUROPEAN TOUR, THE OFFICIAL TICKETING AGENTS, THE AUTHORISED AGENTS AND ALL AUTHORISED PERSONS HARMLESS FROM AND AGAINST ALL LOSS, DAMAGES AND LIABILITIES, INCLUDING (WITHOUT LIMITATION) BODILY OR MENTAL HARM, PERSONAL PROPERTY DAMAGE OR LOSS, LOSS OF PROFIT, BUSINESS OR OPPORTUNITY, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL LOSS, SPECIAL DAMAGES OR ANY OTHER LOSS AND/OR HARM HOWSOEVER ARISING (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE COSTS OF ENFORCEMENT OR ATTEMPTED ENFORCEMENT OF THESE CONDITIONS), SUFFERED OR INCURRED BY ANY OF THEM IN CONNECTION WITH, RESULTING FROM, OR ARISING OUT OF, A BREACH BY THE TICKET HOLDER OF ANY OF THESE CONDITIONS.


Read more at http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2018/tournamentid=2018056/news/newsid=350480.html#JPtt1XtB0hikU3lG.99

prawnsambo

Irishdaywalker wrote: »

for what it's worth . . I cannot see the lady winning a case if she takes legal action . . however I can see BK giving the lady money to cover all expenses and some extra. It's a terrible accident, shocking for her, but if legal action is taken I can't see it working in her favour.

It has happened before in this country and not so long ago: thread here. The only difference is that the golfer who was successfully sued didn't shout fore. Which was a factor that the judge mentioned in his verdict.

IBrows89

Not sure if this has been mentioned but with the earpieces that all the marshals have can they not communicate from the tee box to others on that hole to give warning of the flight of the ball and the marshal at that end tell spectators to brace for a stray ball. At least it would give spectators a chance to cover their heads and faces with their hands. Might at least stop this from happening again.

GreeBo

^ should just have an exclusion zone 25-50 yards either side of the expected landing zone, barring freak accidents that would resolve the issue I reckon.

seamus

kieran. wrote: »

The is the liability blah from the Irish Open so I would tend to agree with the above..

Nah, she'll have a case, and here's why:

57. EACH TICKET HOLDER ADMITTED TO THE VENUE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THEIR PRESENCE AND/OR MOVEMENT IN AND AROUND THE VENUE IS AT THEIR OWN RISK AND ACCEPTS THE RISKS AND DANGERS IN ATTENDING A GOLF TOURNAMENT, INCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING STRUCK BY AN ERRANT GOLF BALL AND THOSE RELATING TO ATTENDING A SPORTING COMPETITION IN A GOLF COURSE ENVIRONMENT EXPOSED TO THE NATURAL ELEMENTS. BY ENTERING THE VENUE ACKNOWLEDGING SUCH RISKS, ALL PERSONS ACCEPT THEIR OWN GENERAL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND OTHERS FROM SUCH RISKS SO FAR AS IS REASONABLY PRACTICABLE, IN PARTICULAR BY WEARING FOOTWEAR AND CLOTHING APPROPRIATE FOR PREVAILING WEATHER AND GROUND CONDITIONS.

So, that's cool. "If you come in here, you might get hit with a golf ball. You're outside, walking on grass, mud and hills in unpredictable weather, so you accept that you may require special clothing, and that slips or trips are unavoidable." Fine.

But then

58. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER PGA EUROPEAN TOUR
...
AND, WITHOUT LIMITATION TO THE FOREGOING, EACH TICKET HOLDER AGREES THAT NO CLAIM, COMPLAINT OR PROCEEDING WILL BE BROUGHT IN RELATION TO THE FOREGOING

The "to the maximum extent permissible by law" clause basically means, "This is a really loud paragraph that is meaningless". You cannot sign away statutory rights. Including any agreement not to take civil action for loss.

There always exist a duty of care on the event organiser towards attendees. They can reduce their liability to injuries by pointing out dangers, but they cannot, for example, say, "You could die here today. If you do, you agree that's not our fault". That could actually be used in court against them.

The main measures are "reasonably foreseeable" and "reasonable precautions".

Where your injury is something which was reasonably foreseeable to you (i.e. a risk you accepted) and the organisers took reasonable precautions, then usually it's a "**** happens, jog on" scenario.

However, this is an exceptional injury; people are struck by golf balls all the time and usually suffer little except a bad bruise or maybe a break. Philip Reid from the Irish Times took a clatter and this is considered one of the more serious ones because it drew blood:

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3162632.1500639966!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg

So someone getting hit with a ball will not get anything in court. It's a reasonably foreseeable consequence of attending a golf event and the injury is temporary.
Complete loss of vision in one eye is a massive injury which was not reasonably foreseeable to the spectator before attending and therefore it can be argued that she did not agree to that risk when attending.

The RC will likely pay her a seven figure sum and settle out of court.

fullstop

lawred2 wrote: »

Is it not up to the marshalls to shout?

It's not up to the marshalls, and in any case Koepka shouted Fire - a number of times IIRC

Kevin Finnerty

fullstop wrote: »

It's not up to the marshalls, and in any case Koepka shouted Fire - a number of times IIRC

:pac: Just as well they were in Paris and not the States.

fullstop

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

:pac: Just as well they were in Paris and not the States.

Sorry I was watching the shooting on Sky Sports Action :pac:

valoren

On every hole there are spotters/finders. The people on the tee box indicating the direction of the ball to assist the finders.

The spotters on the tee box will have red flags with them.
If there is an errant shot then the spotter waves the red flag.
The finders seeing this immediately blow a whistle.
The alert is basically to tell spectators that a stray ball is incoming so cover up, protect your head.
If that was in place at the RC then the likelihood of such debilitating accidents would be reduced.

So at the next Ryder Cup it will be Whistling Not Strait .

Cork Boy 53

valoren wrote: »

On every hole there are spotters/finders. The people on the tee box indicating the direction of the ball to assist the finders.

The spotters on the tee box will have red flags with them.
If there is an errant shot then the spotter waves the red flag.
The finders seeing this immediately blow a whistle.
The alert is basically to tell spectators that a stray ball is incoming so cover up, protect your head.
If that was in place at the RC then the likelihood of such debilitating accidents would be reduced.

So at the next Ryder Cup it will be Whistling Not Strait .

So are you suggesting that was not in place last week? I would doubt that was the case.

prawnsambo

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that was not in place last week? I would doubt that was the case.

Don't hear any whistles or even see any flag waving in this (albeit poor quality) clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfkIgHqvk9k

Cork Boy 53

prawnsambo wrote: »

Don't hear any whistles or even see any flag waving in this (albeit poor quality) clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfkIgHqvk9k

Impossible to tell from that clip whether or not flags were waved. It would need a better video or photo of the area around the tee box before anyone could judge for sure what happened

prawnsambo

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Impossible to tell from that clip whether or not flags were waved. It would need a better video or photo of the area around the tee box before anyone could judge for sure what happened

I never saw red flags. What I often saw was the marshalls on the tee box who hold up the 'quiet please' paddles, tilt them in the direction the shot is going. Players often hold out their club in that direction as well.

Cork Boy 53

prawnsambo wrote: »

I never saw red flags. What I often saw was the marshalls on the tee box who hold up the 'quiet please' paddles, tilt them in the direction the shot is going. Players often hold out their club in that direction as well.

I was under the impression that every pro golf tournament was obliged to have such a flag system in place and if it was not in operation at the Ryder Cup, then it is a glaring omission on the part of the officials.

prawnsambo

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I was under the impression that every pro golf tournament was obliged to have such a flag system in place and if it was not in operation at the Ryder Cup, then it is a glaring omission on the part of the officials.

I'm not saying there wasn't any. Just that I never saw them. But obviously my view was limited to what the TV cameras showed. And generally those shots are from behind the player on the tee box which wouldn't show everything behind the player.

Mantis Toboggan

https://twitter.com/RTEgolf/status/1047842890913894401?s=19

It's happened again..

prawnsambo

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RTEgolf/status/1047842890913894401?s=19

It's happened again..

My initial reading put a mental comma between the words 'Hatton' and 'shot'. :eek:

It's a really badly constructed headline. 'Struck on head by Tyrrell Hatton'.

slave1

Koepka, who is playing in the Alfred Dunhill Links Championship, said he was heartbroken after learning of the extent of the injury suffered by Mrs Remande.

"Yesterday was probably one of the worst days of my life," Koepka said in his pre-tournament press conference on Wednesday. "I haven't had too many tragedies in my personal family where there's been a loss or any kind of tragic accident so I've been lucky in that sense.

"I wasn't told until I got to the course - I'm not the biggest person on social media - so when I got here and had about seven missed calls and 25 text messages I was like, 'What's going on?'. Then I was told the news and obviously I am really heartbroken. My stomach sank."

Niles Crane

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RTEgolf/status/1047842890913894401?s=19

It's happened again..

They're going to have to do something.It happens constantly on the PGA tour and yet they haven't taken measures to stop it.

Surely there has to be a pressure put on players to be more careful and try and position the ball properly rather than lash it wildly.

Having said that you've probably more chance of getting injured in numerous other ways on your way to the golf course but still spectators should be able to go an watch without fear of getting an injury.