Spectator hit by ball loses sight in one eye

GreeBo

Just keep the spectators back so that there is actual rough around where the drives land and put OB 15 yards outside of the fairway.

If you cant hit that area then you are swinging out of control.

They get away with this too often on the PGA tour, as demonstrated at Le Golf National and continuing going in this matter is to the detriment of the game imo.

Russman

Niles Crane wrote: »

They're going to have to do something.It happens constantly on the PGA tour and yet they haven't taken measures to stop it.

Surely there has to be a pressure put on players to be more careful and try and position the ball properly rather than lash it wildly.

Unfortunately the simple fact is that the PGA Tour and the players just don't care - "ahh sure a signed glove and maybe a selfie, and its grand" seems to be the way. I've a lot of time for Koepka and I fully get that he probably didn't know what to do when it happened, but seriously, a signed glove when yer one is lying on the ground being tended to ??!! Like, WTF.

Bomb and gouge is where the modern game is at in the States and with probably $7 million to play for every week, some players will continue to use the crowd as a backstop.
PGA Tour is an entertainment industry and they want birdies, so the rough is kept short (for the most part).

Its similar to why JB Holmes wasn't penalised for slow play a few months ago (in Torrey Pines maybe ?), there's just no appetite whatsoever to deal with it. At least in Europe there's a nominal fine for not shouting fore. If it was one shot penalies rather than a fine, it'd sharpen them up !

charlieIRL

GreeBo wrote: »

They get away with this too often on the PGA tour, as demonstrated at Le Golf National and continuing going in this matter is to the detriment of the game imo.

I agree, it’s much too common on the PGA tour. I think the only way to stop it is to penalise players where it hurts, a penalty on their score. They have enough money so a fine won’t be severe enough whereas if they miss a cut or a top spot, then they might heed it.

slave1

Bring in (as in narrow existing) OOB at the elite level, end of.

Niles Crane

slave1 wrote: »

Bring in (as in narrow existing) OOB at the elite level, end of.

The out of bounds rules always seem a bit bizzare to me.

I think at the bridgestone invitational Francesco Molinari twice in succession hit his ball onto the fairway of a hole he wasn't playing and yet it wasn't out of bounds.

Surely if you hit the fairway of another hole it should be out of bounds.

spacecoyote

Niles Crane wrote: »

Surely if you hit the fairway of another hole it should be out of bounds.

I hope that never comes in, or I'll be hitting a lot of balls OOB on my home course

prawnsambo

slave1 wrote: »

Bring in (as in narrow existing) OOB at the elite level, end of.

Phil wouldn't like that.


There's no easy answer to this. You have to work on risk mitigation rather than trying to come up with impossible answers. So move the spectators back, improve communication for errant shots (nearby marshalls who warn the spectators if a ball is coming their way), no-spectator zones where driven balls are likely to go off line and penal rough for when they do. Another possibility is rather than have OB defined arbitrarily, you could define OB as anywhere designated for spectators. So if you hit a neighbouring fairway you're ok, but if you hit the spectators you're OB.

Irishdaywalker

I don't know the answer to this question - but how often does a spectator get hit at a pro event, with the number of people in attendance versus the number of drives, it seems to be quite low. . . and highlighted significantly at the like of a major or RC when there are more people at these events. 
I love watching golf, but find going to tournaments very boring, the best thing to do at a tournament is either go on the practice days, when you are more often than not allowed inside the ropes, or to go to the range . . I don't think there is anything you can do, and it's just very unfortunate if you get hit. . . and i don't say that lightly, it was a terrible accident.

prawnsambo

Irishdaywalker wrote: »

I don't know the answer to this question - but how often does a spectator get hit at a pro event, with the number of people in attendance versus the number of drives, it seems to be quite low. . . and highlighted significantly at the like of a major or RC when there are more people at these events.
I love watching golf, but find going to tournaments very boring, the best thing to do at a tournament is either go on the practice days, when you are more often than not allowed inside the ropes, or to go to the range . . I don't think there is anything you can do, and it's just very unfortunate if you get hit. . . and i don't say that lightly, it was a terrible accident.

It seems to happen regularly on the PGA tour, though not usually resulting in serious injury. Players not calling 'fore' seems to be a feature there too. There was an instance this year (iirc) where Charley Hoffman was heard to say he hoped an errant drive hit someone so he wouldn't be out of play.

doublecross

Happened last week at dunhill, nasty looking bruise https://apnews.com/13ebf3e23073431c8bb09d523ad529be

Seve OB

Niles Crane wrote: »

Surely if you hit the fairway of another hole it should be out of bounds.

do you even play golf?

Cork Boy 53

prawnsambo wrote: »

It seems to happen regularly on the PGA tour, though not usually resulting in serious injury. Players not calling 'fore' seems to be a feature there too. There was an instance this year (iirc) where Charley Hoffman was heard to say he hoped an errant drive hit someone so he wouldn't be out of play.

That sums up the attitude among a large number, most likely the majority, of pro golfers and why there urgently needs to be a rule change to discourage this mindset.

prawnsambo

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

That sums up the attitude among a large number, most likely the majority, of pro golfers and why there urgently needs to be a rule change to discourage this mindset.

Shouts of 'fore' are much more prevalent on the European Tour. It's been commented on at length on Sky. And noted by me in case you think that's just Sky bigging up the ET.

Russman

prawnsambo wrote: »

Shouts of 'fore' are much more prevalent on the European Tour. It's been commented on at length on Sky. And noted by me in case you think that's just Sky bigging up the ET.

Isn't there a fine for players on the European Tour for not shouting fore ? I know money doesn't matter to the majority of them, but at least its something. I've no idea what the amount is.

If the PGA tour brought in similar (highly unlikely) but maybe at an amount in keeping with the extra money the guys make in the States, it might have some effect, possibly along with publishing the list of players fined for it at each event (even more unlikely).

Cork Boy 53

Russman wrote: »

Isn't there a fine for players on the European Tour for not shouting fore ? I know money doesn't matter to the majority of them, but at least its something. I've no idea what the amount is.

If the PGA tour brought in similar (highly unlikely) but maybe at an amount in keeping with the extra money the guys make in the States, it might have some effect, possibly along with publishing the list of players fined for it at each event (even more unlikely).

Fining players will do nothing to address this issue. Golfers who don't shout fore should be penalised a stroke or in matchplay competition lose the hole.

Russman

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Golfers who don't shout fore should be penalised a stroke or in matchplay competition lose the hole.

Totally agree, but I'd say there is zero chance of that ever happening in reality. You'd be into all sorts of grey areas.

"I didn't know there was anyone over that hill to the left, its a blind shot and last year the spectators weren't allowed over there....."

"I did shout fore, can you prove I didn't ?"

Generally it'll be the top guys effected by this as they play in the last groups and that's where the crowds go - there's no way a top player will accept stroke penalties partly brought on by the fact that he is a top player, or is lucky/unlucky enough to be playing with a top player, when the guys at the back of the field have one man and his dog watching them and shouting fore is never an issue.

slave1

Be nice to see a tournament where the only fairway is the one in play, land on or past another and OOB.
Obviously this would not protect spectators adjacent to the fairway in question but would certainly help taper golfers eye off the tee which in turn could protect spectators

kiers47

Why dont they just take this out of the players hands and have a ball spotter following each group around calling Fore and directing with a sign on each tee box when there are errant drives.
It seems something that can easily be fixed by the powers that be without having to have the power put in the players hands or handing out fines or penalties.

slave1

kiers47 wrote: »

Why dont they just take this out of the players hands and have a ball spotter following each group around calling Fore and directing with a sign on each tee box when there are errant drives.
It seems something that can easily be fixed by the powers that be without having to have the power put in the players hands or handing out fines or penalties.

This is already in place, there are spotters on the tee box who indicate direction of ball flight and wave the thingy in their hands accordingly...

slave1

See this guy in the background indicating ball left, Bubba doing the same


and this guy giving a signal

kiers47

Yes I have seen them before. What's the big deal of them not shouting fore? Surely if that is their job they should be the ones being fined?

fullstop

kiers47 wrote: »

Yes I have seen them before. What's the big deal of them not shouting fore? Surely if that is their job they should be the ones being fined?

It's not their job. Even waving the flags isn't their job. They're volunteers. You want to start fining volunteers??

TCM

kiers47 wrote:

Yes I have seen them before. What's the big deal of them not shouting fore? Surely if that is their job they should be the ones being fined?

Judging by your comment, you obviously know nothing about golf.

TCM

kiers47 wrote:

Why dont they just take this out of the players hands and have a ball spotter following each group around calling Fore and directing with a sign on each tee box when there are errant drives. It seems something that can easily be fixed by the powers that be without having to have the power put in the players hands or handing out fines or penalties.

Fact: eg; all British Opens are played on links courses. So a player tees off and hits a ball 300 yards ( carry), traveling at 175 miles per hr, over hills & dunes. Often drives are out of sight and people standing on the fairway are out of sight. (so the people on the fairway may not even see the ball being struck from the tee box or indeed the fairway. So obviously it's not as easy as people think to track/spot a ball which has been hit on a links course or indeed any course.

kiers47

fullstop wrote: »

It's not their job. Even waving the flags isn't their job. They're volunteers. You want to start fining volunteers??

I was suggesting that they pay someone to do it. A la the rules officials that follow groups around. Rather than give the players the option to shout or not shout. It was very much a tongue in cheek comment in relation to someone suggested they are already in place. Clearly these people are not specifically tasked with warning fans of pending danger which was what I was suggesting.

kiers47

TCM wrote: »

Judging by your comment, you obviously know nothing about golf.

Judging by your comment you missed the sarcasm.

slave1

You know it really sounds bad but it will probably take someone to be killed before they do anything, I hope it never comes to it...

Seve OB

But what can they do?
We all play golf
We all hit wayward shots
We all shout fore, sometimes it is heard, sometimes I is not, sometimes it is ignored.

I hit a fella last year, sliced a tee shot over to the previous fairway. Now making that fairway OB is not going to make a difference because I wasn't trying to hit it there. It was a bad shot.
I shouted four, loudly, it was going straight at a fella in the middle of the fairway who didn't flinch. He was standing there with his arm on his trolley waiting for his partner to play. So we all shouted loud and continuous, still not a flinch out of the lad. Ball whacked him on his arm, full flight off a driver. I was horrified, sick. But what could I do about it? He was thankfully ok, but got a mighty bruise on his arm, it was the second hole and he was able to play out his round. He didn't kick off at all as I walked towards him.
I asked did he not hear us shout but he had and just choose to iognore it. Now he was on the larger side of things which IMO may have had 2 effects, being that maybe he just wasn't physically able to duck down behind his bag as I would have and secondly, I think it might have softened the blow so to speak, on a slimmer lad, it may have caused broken bones. But why on eacth he didn't even lift his arms up around his head is beyond me.

I could have easily hit him in the head and it could have been a lot worse. Now I know this is a different situation, but the end result is people get hit all the time on the golf course, either spectating or playing. Sure didn't we have one of our posters here recently get concussion when he got walloped by his playing partner.

Golfers do not set out to hit people. But accidents happen. You say it will take a death before they do something about it, but what realistically can be done? Do we all have to wear hard hats and padded suits from now on?

slingerz

Seve OB wrote: »

But what can they do?
We all play golf
We all hit wayward shots
We all shout fore, sometimes it is heard, sometimes I is not, sometimes it is ignored.

I hit a fella last year, sliced a tee shot over to the previous fairway. Now making that fairway OB is not going to make a difference because I wasn't trying to hit it there. It was a bad shot.
I shouted four, loudly, it was going straight at a fella in the middle of the fairway who didn't flinch. He was standing there with his arm on his trolley waiting for his partner to play. So we all shouted loud and continuous, still not a flinch out of the lad. Ball whacked him on his arm, full flight off a driver. I was horrified, sick. But what could I do about it? He was thankfully ok, but got a mighty bruise on his arm, it was the second hole and he was able to play out his round. He didn't kick off at all as I walked towards him.
I asked did he not hear us shout but he had and just choose to iognore it. Now he was on the larger side of things which IMO may have had 2 effects, being that maybe he just wasn't physically able to duck down behind his bag as I would have and secondly, I think it might have softened the blow so to speak, on a slimmer lad, it may have caused broken bones. But why on eacth he didn't even lift his arms up around his head is beyond me.

I could have easily hit him in the head and it could have been a lot worse. Now I know this is a different situation, but the end result is people get hit all the time on the golf course, either spectating or playing. Sure didn't we have one of our posters here recently get concussion when he got walloped by his playing partner.

Golfers do not set out to hit people. But accidents happen. You say it will take a death before they do something about it, but what realistically can be done? Do we all have to wear hard hats and padded suits from now on?

Its a very grey area, some people may not have a good level of hearing and not be able to hear the vociferous shouts of fore across the fairways. What more can someone do in such a situation.

I had it last Saturday, playing with 2 seniors there was 2 occasions where a fore shout was directed at our group but the two lads never flinched even with me in their company passing on the warning. They simply didnt hear the very audible shout from another tee box

Seve OB

yep and other times maybe a windy day or across some trees, your shout just won't carry