Pregnant Sheep Skinned Alive, hung on barbed wired

Rave.ef

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I saw this thread on the front page last week.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057914201/4/#post108184761

Farmers asking is it ok to slaughter a pregnant cow. Have a look for yourself.

No! It's not..... your losing out on the delicious veal.

But on a serious note hope they do catch for savage.

wexie

freshpopcorn wrote: »

No it wasn't the Chinese.
Chinese doesn't well sell lamb.

Maybe they realised they're easier to catch than cats 😀

ganmo

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I saw this thread on the front page last week.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057914201/4/#post108184761

Farmers asking is it ok to slaughter a pregnant cow. Have a look for yourself.

Welfare questions never have black or white answers - that was asked with the background of running out of feed, so killing 5 animals now would ensure enough feed for the rest of the herd over the winter or leaving it and maybe running running out of feed for the entire herd.
It just happened that the 5 animals in question were in calf which added another dimension to the question.
Not a nice position to be in.

freshpopcorn

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's relatively common, tbh. Especially where the sheep are on a different block of land away from the farmhouse.

Yes, we looked into it at the time especially in mountainey areas. The Gardai said it was really common.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Go back and read through it again.

I did.
I moderated it.
I posted in it.

kylith

kneemos wrote: »

Most Halal meat is stunned I think.

I don't think so. Halal has to be killed with one swipe of the knife. Stunning the animal means that you can't tell if that happened.

gozunda

Xcellor wrote:

it that different to what is done every day in slaughter houses? Throat cut, skinned and hung up?We brand whoever did this sick but and find it disgusting but yet the stuff that happens every day behind closed doors is fine.Cognitive dissonance.

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Correct.

Your Face wrote: »

It's different.
They re stunned before have their throats cut.
It's done by a professional in an efficient manner.

You have to just love the way some vegans apparently encourage people to kill with their bare hands as above 'because it's the same' :rolleyes:

And have serious concerns with people who think like this tbh.

More cognitive vegan bs more like ....

Bigbagofcans

kneemos wrote: »

Most Halal meat is stunned I think.

I didn't know that so did my research there. Thankfully most halal meat is stunned, around 80% or more. Unstunned Halal meat is banned in a few European countries but not Ireland (surprise surprise).

Xcellor

We kill baby cows, baby sheep and if you like eggs more than likely it supports this process. Grinding up live chicks.

WARNING: Not for the squeamish https://i.imgur.com/MzMo4JA.gif

There is no humane way to kill something that doesn't want to die. There is no humane reason to kill something that doesn't need to die.

The chicks above aren't even used in food. Their were born male and can't be profitably exploited.

As sick as the OPs article is, it's sicker to me that society at large condones abusive/exploitative murder of other non-human animals.

Rave.ef

Xcellor wrote: »

We kill baby cows, baby sheep and if you like eggs more than likely it supports this process. Grinding up live chicks.

<snip>

There is no humane way to kill something that doesn't want to die. There is no humane reason to kill something that doesn't need to die.

The chicks above aren't even used in food. Their were born male and can't be profitably exploited.

As sick as the OPs article is, it's sicker to me that society at large condones abusive/exploitative murder of other non-human animals.

I'd eat that.... den again I just love meat:D

wakka12

Xcellor wrote: »

Is it that different to what is done every day in slaughter houses? Throat cut, skinned and hung up?

We brand whoever did this sick but and find it disgusting but yet the stuff that happens every day behind closed doors is fine.

Cognitive dissonance.

Not really, killing a sheep for fun and mutilating its body and leaving iton display is not the same

garv123

Xcellor wrote: »

There is no humane reason to kill something that doesn't need to die.

I beg to differ!!

freshpopcorn

Rave.ef wrote: »

I'd eat that.... den again I just love meat:D

I love how people try and turn you off meat with a picture.
Another thing I'm aware of is when people say they worked in a meat factory at some stage and they'll have a story about how it turned them off meat.
The people I know who comes out with this were always very squeamish in the first place. One even just worked in a packaging place.

gozunda

Xcellor wrote: »

We kill baby cows, baby sheep and if you like eggs more than likely it supports this process. Grinding up live chicks.
There is no humane way to kill something that doesn't want to die. There is no humane reason to kill something that doesn't need to die.
The chicks above aren't even used in food. Their were born male and can't be profitably exploited.
As sick as the OPs article is, it's sicker to me that society at large condones abusive/exploitative murder of other non-human animals.

Surprise surprise another vegan hijack

:rolleyes:

Rave.ef

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I love how people try and turn you off meat with a picture.
Another thing I'm aware of is when people say they worked in a meat factory at some stage and they'll have a story about how it turned them off meat.
The people I know who comes out with this were always very squeamish in the first place. One even just worked in a packaging place.

Same with people on about maggots in black pudding... I love black pudding I dont care it's made with blood why would I care if there's maggots in it.... hungry now think I'll have some blue stake for my dinner:p

Rave.ef

And a pint of milk...

Xcellor

wakka12 wrote: »

Not really, killing a sheep for fun and mutilating its body and leaving iton display is not the same

We kill animals for entertainment too. Some get killed participating in the activity - a day at the races, some get killed as a requirement to the sport - bullfighting.

You seem to think mutilating and leaving on display is disrespectful. You are right. It's disgusting and unnneccessary but so is killing it, skinning it and chopping it up into pieces in a slaughter house even if we intend to eat it.

Xcellor

gozunda wrote: »

Surprise surprise another vegan hijack

This from a poster who claims he is not a vegan .... and then does.

:rolleyes:

I never claimed I wasn't a vegan. If I made that impression apologies. Like most vegans I was raised eating the only diet I knew, meat and dairy. It was required to be healthy and I believed the humane argument.

I used to mock vegans. Stupid crazy tree huggers. My favourite food was a big juicy red steak and I loved chicken wings with red hot sauce. I ate milk chocolate and made a great egg fried rice.

I was the anti vegan. A meal wasn't a meal without meat and those vegetables around the plate were decorative mostly.

Surprisingly I changed. Anyone can do it, whether for the ethics, for health there are enough reasons to give it a try.

Mr. CooL ICE

Xcellor wrote: »

Grinding up live chicks.

Mod: Fixed your post. Please add warnings to anything that is potentially graphic in future

gozunda

Xcellor wrote: »

I never claimed I wasn't a vegan. If I made that impression apologies. Like most vegans I was raised eating the only diet I knew, meat and dairy. It was required to be healthy and I believed the humane argument. I used to mock vegans. Stupid crazy tree huggers. My favourite food was a big juicy red steak and I loved chicken wings with red hot sauce. I ate milk chocolate and made a great egg fried rice. I was the anti vegan. A meal wasn't a meal without meat and those vegetables around the plate were decorative mostly. Surprisingly I changed. Anyone can do it, whether for the ethics, for health there are enough reasons to give it a try.

Mea culpa. I'm meant Tilikum.

I am interested why many vegans claim to have been huge meat eaters - (juicy steak, wings, chocolate, egg fried rice etc) ever before turning vegan.

It reminds me of some extreme evangelical Christians who declare not only did they sin - but that they were the biggest sinners ever before seeing the light etc.

I don't think I have ever came across one that ate a regular mixed diet or maybe had meat once or twice a day at most.

My own diet is varied and in fairly normal mix of plants and animal products. I stay away from the processed stuff. My health and ethics are just fine...

The way that sheep was kilked was nothing like how animals are killed in controled conditions and in places which are supervised by DoA vetinary inspectors. Saying otherwise is dishonest or just plain misinformed tbh

Buford T. Justice XIX

Xcellor wrote: »

We kill baby cows, baby sheep and if you like eggs more than likely it supports this process. Grinding up live chicks.

WARNING: Not for the squeamish https://i.imgur.com/MzMo4JA.gif

There is no humane way to kill something that doesn't want to die. There is no humane reason to kill something that doesn't need to die.

The chicks above aren't even used in food. Their were born male and can't be profitably exploited.

As sick as the OPs article is, it's sicker to me that society at large condones abusive/exploitative murder of other non-human animals.

Says the lads that yank baby carrots from their friends, skin them while alive, chop them up and finish them off in boiling water. Sometimes don't even kill them before eating them?





Am I doing this right?:pac:

freshpopcorn

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Says the lads that yank baby carrots from their friends, skin them while alive, chop them up and finish them off in boiling water. Sometimes don't even kill them before eating them?





Am I doing this right?:pac:

Kevin the Aldi carrot might get murdered!

archer22

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Says the lads that yank baby carrots from their friends, skin them while alive, chop them up and finish them off in boiling water. Sometimes don't even kill them before eating them?





Am I doing this right?:pac:

No to be honest with you...your'e putting up a shyte argument.

gozunda

archer22 wrote: »

No to be honest with you...your'e putting up a shyte argument.

So your saying it's the same as the vegan arguments then?

archer22

gozunda wrote: »

So your saying it's the same as the vegan arguments then?

Only if for some bizarre reason you can't see the difference between a sheep, a Chicken or a Carrot!

Sheep breeder

lalababa wrote: »

Sounds like a butchering interrupted to be honest.

You have hit the nail on the head and a journalist has painted a different story, the first sheep to lamb will be pedigree ewes in first of December and most only going breeding now.
You have hand it to the paper industry they know how to make a great story.

archer22

Its certainly getting rougher in the countryside, this Sheep mauling and rustling, Jeeps being stolen, including at least two near here, and a farmer in north Dublin being hospitalised by Hare coursers.

wakka12

Xcellor wrote: »

We kill animals for entertainment too. Some get killed participating in the activity - a day at the races, some get killed as a requirement to the sport - bullfighting.

You seem to think mutilating and leaving on display is disrespectful. You are right. It's disgusting and unnneccessary but so is killing it, skinning it and chopping it up into pieces in a slaughter house even if we intend to eat it.

Well it just is different, I know you have a point and I agree theres a lot of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance with regards killing of animals but theres a reason a case like this is a tell tale sign of dangerous psychopathic tendencies , its because its sick and while the end result is the same as an animal being killed in a slaughterhouse, its the inent thats different, one animal was killed for pleasure and one out of necessity for food

cocaliquid

cormie wrote: »

What about jacking off a bull and fisting a cow to make the cow pregnant, to then steel their baby from them (for veal or for them to meet the same destiny as the mother) to then further molest their teats to take their milk, which was meant for their baby? All perfectly legal. Also if you think stunning and slitting the throat of a panicking cow is an easy and efficient process, you should watch some footage of it.

Even just look at the atrocities committed in the wool industries, again, not dissimilar to the article above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siTvjWE2aVw

Nothing to do with Ireland never seen that happen on a Farm here

kylith

archer22 wrote: »

Only if for some bizarre reason you can't see the difference between a sheep, a Chicken or a Carrot!

The issue I have is that there's so much vegan propaganda and outright nonsense being pedalled as fact, and I say this as someone whose partner is a non-dairy vegetarian.

Just the other day I had a friend try convince me that farmers were cutting holes in cows' stomachs so that feed could be pumped directly in. A short google showed that it's actually a veterinary thing for cattle who can't digest their food properly. But because this person got their info from PETA (who kill >95% of animals in their 'shelters') the information was very wrong.

Many of the issues are also specifically American, not to say that they are acceptable but deriding the Irish dairy, meat and egg industries over problems in a foreign country is unfair.

Like I said, the nut-milk industry uses huge volumes of water, Peruvians have been priced out of the market for Quinoa leading to, ironically, increased meat consumption by them. Basically, in Ireland at least, it is perfectly possible to have a good, balanced omnivorous or vegetarian diet which is locally sourced and sustainable, but is unfortunately impossible with a vegan diet.

gozunda

archer22 wrote: »

Only if for some bizarre reason you can't see the difference between a sheep, a Chicken or a Carrot!

That they're all biological entities for sure. They all have the impetus to live and reproduce. That they all have varying degrees of sentience. That eating meat doesn't deny any of these things. That eating just about anything has consequences. That vegans like to use hyperbole?

Plus if you take your time and reread what was written - you will see just a little bit of parody there .....

ganmo

this is what proper shearing is like

ganmo wrote: »

This needs to be seen
https://twitter.com/mathewwilko/status/1035047431547760640?s=21

archer22

For one thing though there is a lot of nonsense about needing to eat meat to be healthy...for example take a look at videos of Shaolin Monks performing martial arts, those guys are vegetarian.

I dare anyone who thinks vegetarians are "weak, pale and sickly" to try going a few rounds with one of those....I think I know who would be weak pale and sickly at the end of it

gozunda

cormie wrote: »

This isn't much different than systemic practices used to get animal products to consumers....

Pure and unadulterated vegan bs I'm afraid.
Animals at slaughter are always stunned. The process is overseen by vetinary inspectors and inspected from farm to fork. So no it's nothing like what happened to the sheep concerned. I hope they catch the barsteward ....

cormie wrote: »

All the leading world dietetic associations agree that a diet void of animal products is not only sufficient for all stages of life including infancy and pregnancy, but can help avoid some of the common killer diseases that animal proteins and fats play such a huge part in.

As copied by every vegan ever. Seriously is there a vegan bible out there that vegans copy such absolute misinformation and pseudo science word for word?

cormie wrote: »

If you agree with the basic moral principle that causing harm, where harm isn't necessary, is wrong, and can trust the leading dietetic associations, then consider that any such use of animals can't be considered a need, and if your want (taste, texture, culture, tradition) takes away the need (survival, a life void of interference) of another, then you've already agreed that the use of another life for your want is wrong.

No cormie I do not agere with that sound bite philosophy. More vegan bs nonsensencial wordisms

cormie wrote: »

This is a great reality check as to what happens on free range, organic, high welfare, red tractor approved and RSPCA approved farms:
https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/

Ahh I thought you'd get to some propaganda like this. Thanks

The problem with that vegan film is that the vegans who made that allegedly filmed scenes of poor animal welfare in the UK, and never even bothered contacting the authorities. To fail to report same is inexcusable imo.

To use such video footage and newspaper reports of mutilated sheep to promote veganism as you do above is the reason that 'veganism' is a busted boot for most right thinking people out there.
https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/land-of-hope-and-glory-film

cormie

gozunda wrote: »

I am interested why many vegans claim to have been huge meat eaters - (juicy steak, wings, chocolate, egg fried rice etc) ever before turning vegan.
I don't think I have ever came across one that ate a regular mixed diet or maybe had meat once or twice a day at most.

My health and ethics are just fine...

The way that sheep was kilked was nothing like how animals are killed in controled conditions and in places which are supervised by DoA vetinary inspectors. Saying otherwise is dishonest or just plain misinformed tbh

I was never a big meat eater at all. I was raised on what I'd say is an above average diet in terms of health in terms of what I'd have for lunch and dinner, but I snacked a lot in between so became overweight. In my quest to lose weight, I started to learn more about nutrition and eventually instead of my aim being to lose weight, it became to be as healthy as possible and with that, I'd achieve a healthy weight. The more I learned, the more I discovered animal products weren't only unnecessary, but were also detrimental to our health. This is well worth the watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbpyCC0g2yg

If you believe animal products are a necessity, then eating them doesn't make you a bad person. If you know it's not a necessity and you can live a perfectly healthy life without animal products, but choose to eat them for convenience, taste, texture, culture, tradition, then causing harm to another life to satisfy these things should make you question your ethics.

You can't believe that every single animal killed in any processing plant, DoA inspected or not, will be killed efficiently, there's plenty of footage out there to show this and to show how workers can often be seen making matters much worse too. Inspections are inspections, you can't think every death is recorded, inspected and assessed.

cocaliquid wrote: »

Nothing to do with Ireland never seen that happen on a Farm here

Have a look at this for what goes on in Ireland:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBy5BqCv4us

ganmo wrote: »

this is what proper shearing is like

Would you be happy to have a barber handle your child like that if they were going for a haircut? Look at the video I showed previously on wool. Does using any animal against their will, for any reason that isn't necessary to our survival or health, not resonate with you as immoral in any way?

gozunda wrote: »

(1) Pure and unadulterated vegan bs I'm afraid.
Animals at slaughter are always stunned. The process is overseen by vetinary inspectors and inspected from farm to fork. So no it's nothing like what happened to the sheep concerned. I hope they catch the barsteward ....



(2) As copied by every vegan ever. Seriously is there a vegan bible out there that vegans copy such absolute misinformation and pseudo science word for word?


(3) No cormie I do not agere with that sound bite philosophy. More vegan bs nonsensencial wordisms


(4) Ahh I thought you'd get to some propaganda like this. Thanks

The problem with that vegan film is that the vegans who made that allegedly filmed scenes of poor animal welfare in the UK, and never even bothered contacting the authorities. To fail to report same is inexcusable imo.

To use such video footage and newspaper reports of mutilated sheep to promote veganism as you do above is the reason that 'veganism' is a busted boot for most right thinking people out there.
https://www.rspcaassured.org.uk/land-of-hope-and-glory-film

(1) Slaughter is often the most humane process an animal will go through in their time as a commodity. Don't forget, every litre of milk you buy, not only contributes to slaughter of animals, but it contributes to the non consensual sexual interference with that animal (what humans call rape when it happens to another human), it contributes to live calf exports around Europe and beyond and the many other horrible experiences these animals will have to face. It's an industry that's been around for a long time, they don't waste anything. You buy one product, you're contributing to another by association.

Here's a slaughter house training video, there's a segment on ineffective stunning. Look at the first cow to get their neck trapped and how they panic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isj-IYeCbnI

(2)What misinformation are you talking about? Here ya go, British dietetic association:
https://www.bda.uk.com/news/view?id=179

And American:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864



(3)Where's the bs wordisms? Why don't you agree with that philosophy? You think it's ok to cause harm where harm isn't necessary? Harm in this context is captivity, abuse, death.


(4) Where's the propaganda? This is simply footage taken from a multitude of some of the highest welfare farms across the UK. Surely these farms have regular inspections by DoA too, so you see footage from "high welfare" farms and think they should be reported to the authorities, but yet you're confident every animal killer out there and every stun gun is efficient and effective and the animals never suffer?

Then you go blame "The vegans" for not reporting them as if they are the bad guys? Vegans in general are for rights, not welfare. They don't want animals used at all, they aren't ok with gentle abuse, gentle rape and quick slaughter. I don't know the details, but as long as the demand will be there, there will always be varying standards of welfare. The aim is to cut the demand which will reduce all instances of animal ownership and abuse, not just the ones treated extra bad.

gozunda

cormie wrote: »

I was never a big meat eater at all. I ....

So said every other vegan preacher ever. :rolleyes: Ffs I've read the same drivel so many times on Boards and elsewhere it's ridiculous. Stop watcing the stupid propaganda videos and trust me you'll find you feel a lot better. This is a story about a sheep and not some daft personal belief system. Thanks....

Reati

Everytime a vegan thread starts it makes me want a meat feast pizza from a chipper that closed down in carlow.

One of every meat on a 12 inch pizza.

Xcellor

gozunda wrote: »

So said every other vegan preacher ever. :rolleyes: Ffs I've read the same drivel so many times on Boards and elsewhere it's ridiculous. Stop watcing the stupid propaganda videos and trust me you'll find you feel a lot better. This is a story about a sheep and not some daft personal belief system. Thanks....

Ethics develop and evolve, science, understanding and compassion shape them. What we believed was acceptable - even legitimate and required are now for the most part accepted as abhorrent or repulsive.

Compare the ethics of today versus what was perfectly normal by societies stand point not that long ago (and unfortunately some of these practices still exist):

Women's place is the home. They should raise children - that's their job. They shouldn't vote. They should be subservient and obey without question their husband. If they don't listen to their husband they should be beaten. They should submit to their husband whenever he desires. They shouldn't drive. They shouldn't have a job. They should be circumcised. They aren't as smart as men, as strong or as capable - so are lesser. If they engage in sex outside of marriage they should be shunned - perhaps stoned. If they get pregnant outside of wedlock they should be sent away and their child taken away from them.

Disgusting by today's stand point and only one of many examples of where ethics have changed and developed. But they only changed because a few stood up and challenged the status quo.

Science has revealed our non human animal cousins share characteristics of sentient life. They want to live, they feel pain, they react to fear and they have a strong desire to survive. This is not propaganda any more than the exposing and challenging of bigoted sexist beliefs was propaganda in the past.

gozunda

Xcellor wrote: »

Ethics develop and evolve, science, understanding and compassion shape them. What we believed was acceptable - even legitimate and required are now for the most part accepted as abhorrent or repulsive.
Compare the ethics of today versus what was perfectly normal by societies stand point not that long ago (and unfortunately some of these practices still exist. Disgusting by today's stand point and only one of many examples of where ethics have changed and developed. But they only changed because a few stood up and challenged the status quo.Science has revealed our non human animal cousins share characteristics of sentient life. They want to live, they feel pain, they react to fear and they have a strong desire to survive. This is not propaganda any more than the exposing and challenging of bigoted sexist beliefs was propaganda in the past.

Lol even more vegan preaching :pac:

Now about that poor sheep ...

Tilikum17

Reati wrote: »

Everytime a vegan thread starts it makes me want a meat feast pizza from a chipper that closed down in carlow.

One of every meat on a 12 inch pizza.

Mmmmmm delicious 12 inch meat feast pizza.

So tasty the place had to close down.

Couldn’t make it up.

Xcellor

gozunda wrote: »

Lol even more vegan preaching :pac:

Now about that poor sheep ...

I'm using an example outside of veganism to demonstrate how ethics change and evolve.

Even our ethics around animals have changed. Practices that were considered perfectly fine and acceptable a few years ago are now looked down upon and shunned by the majority. A few that spring to mind, circuses using animals, fur + hunting.

At some point it became viewed as unethical. If we except that non human animals can suffer and it's wrong for this to happen, why does it become right when the suffering happens behind closed doors?

98q76e12hrflnk

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Mmmmmm delicious 12 inch meat feast pizza.

So tasty the place had to close down.

Couldn’t make it up.

The OP said he was in Carlow hardly much business to keep it running :pac:

ganmo

Xcellor wrote: »

Would you be happy to have a barber handle your child like that if they were going for a haircut? Look at the video I showed previously on wool. Does using any animal against their will, for any reason that isn't necessary to our survival or health, not resonate with you as immoral in any way?








Then you go blame "The vegans" for not reporting them as if they are the bad guys? Vegans in general are for rights, not welfare. They don't want animals used at all, they aren't ok with gentle abuse, gentle rape and quick slaughter. I don't know the details, but as long as the demand will be there, there will always be varying standards of welfare. The aim is to cut the demand which will reduce all instances of animal ownership and abuse, not just the ones treated extra bad.

did you watch the video I put up? did ya notice anything strange about the shearer?

your video...the handling is shocking...the cutting was banned...but brought back for welfare reasons and as you say Vegans don't care about welfare. I'd hope they're trying to change something so that they don't have to do it in future

cormie

gozunda wrote: »

So said every other vegan preacher ever. :rolleyes: Ffs I've read the same drivel so many times on Boards and elsewhere it's ridiculous. Stop watcing the stupid propaganda videos and trust me you'll find you feel a lot better. This is a story about a sheep and not some daft personal belief system. Thanks....

Huh? First you say why do all vegans say that they were big meat eaters before going vegan, then when I tell you I was never really a big meat eater, you say "so said every other vegan preacher ever"

What drivel are you referring to and what exactly are you calling propaganda?

What exactly do you disagree with?

Do you disagree with the American and British dietetic associations?

If you don't disagree with them, then it's only logical that you agree that causing harm to these animals is unnecessary if we don't need them for health/survival or any of our needs, not wants.

If you then agree that causing harm, where harm is known to be unnecessary, is wrong, then anyone who knowingly contributes to the suffering of others, when they know it's not a necessity, can be said to be acting against their moral principles.

So rather than just spouting words like propaganda and drivel, can you put forward a logical argument how the above is flawed?

garv123

fryup

Sheep Skinned Alive....

...part of a satanic ritual ??

cormie

ganmo wrote: »

did you watch the video I put up? did ya notice anything strange about the shearer?

your video...the handling is shocking...the cutting was banned...but brought back for welfare reasons and as you say Vegans don't care about welfare. I'd hope they're trying to change something so that they don't have to do it in future

What you quoted looks like it's fro Xcellor when it was my post you're responding to

I noticed the shearer had only one arm straight away yeah, if that's what you're referring to, that doesn't excuse his rough handling of the sheep. As I asked, would you be happy if your child was handled like that while getting a haircut?

How I said it may not have been clear, but what I meant is vegans are generally for rights over welfare, I didn't mean they don't care about welfare of course. The ideal scenario is all animal exploitation ceases , then all the animals go to a sanctuary to live out their lives as comfortably as possible, so all the mutilation and selective breeding that has caused these animals to be a victim within their own bodies, will stop. That's never going to happen overnight unfortunately and it will most likely be a gradual phase out as awareness increases and culture changes. I'm not saying it's going to desist completely, but the less animals that are bred to be used as nothing more than commodities, the better.

ganmo

i wouldn't mind too much once the hair was cut and the ears weren't

cormie

ganmo wrote: »

i wouldn't mind too much once the hair was cut and the ears weren't

If you saw your child wanting to get out of the seat and the barber shoved his knees into him to keep him back in the seat, you'd be ok with that?

kylith

cormie wrote: »

I noticed the shearer had only one arm straight away yeah, if that's what you're referring to, that doesn't excuse his rough handling of the sheep. As I asked, would you be happy if your child was handled like that while getting a haircut?

Is your child entirely covered in thick wool? Is your child capable of understanding instructions? You do understand that there are differences between humans and sheep, yes?

This is a regular event for sheep. They are used to it, and in summer I can only imagine that shearing is a blessed relief for them. Have you seen what happens sheep if you don't shear them? You think that being unable to move and dying of heatstroke is a better option?

cormie wrote: »

The ideal scenario is all animal exploitation ceases , then all the animals go to a sanctuary to live out their lives as comfortably as possible.

Which is never going to happen, the costs would be astronomical. You're right that from a vegan point of view a gradual phasing out will be the best that can be hoped for. However, that will still mean many animals in dairy or meat industries that are superfluous and will wind up being slaughtered and, due to lack of demand, what do we do with the carcasses? And then there's the loss of biodiversity: no sheep on the mountains, no cattle in the midlands, instead pesticide-laden monocultures of grain, or vast tracts of unproductive land that's unsuitable for anything but livestock.