Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

I'm out.....that is just ridiculous......I listed why I would pick AJ with criteria and you come back with this?

Let's replace AJ with Shavers or Lewis....

I reckon Shavers generates more force on his shots than Wilder. I don't love Shavers. Not one bit......

Lewis with his weight, size, right hand, and technique I reckon generates more power than Wilder. I don't love Lewis one bit.

And, Lewis I reckon generates more power than AJ......I think Lewis' combination of weight/size and technique just pip AJ

Lewis and his right hand hook/straight power shot for me is probably the heaviest shot of all them.

Do you not understand regardless of your "criteria" some people just hit harder than others ,

Wilder hits harder than any current top fighter on the planet , just watch the fights and see it ,

By the way Lewis does in his left one hit harder then Wilder, not a hope in hell ,

Watch the fights AJ does not have the single shot stopping power of Wilder , He just simply hasn't show any where near the amount of one punch ko's

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do you not understand regardless of your "criteria" some people just hit harder than others ,

Of course they do

Use all the criteria you want and Wilder hits harder than Fury.

I honesty don't think you read what you are replying to...

My point is that when you have two very hard hitters, that is when you need to discuss a lot of criteria...because clarity is not so clear....

You seemed to have missed this....

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

By the way Lewis does in his left one hit harder then Wilder, not a hope in hell ,

You think a full force Lewis power shot cannot challenge Wilder's best?

Seriously, you need to stop being so certain with these claims...

Lewis was a huge hitter....he also was a huge man....

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

AJ hits hard no doubt but one shot ko power Wilder buy a mile

AJ = 4 ko's
Wilder = 17 ko's

There Ko's not TKO's

And there you go......relying on numbers and boxrec info......a lot more to it than just this....

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

You've to take into account some people are just naturally heavy handed though. Wilder is just a freak puncher.

.

I have taken this into account. AJ is heavy handed. Wilder is too. Loads more are through history.....

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

And there you go......relying on numbers and boxrec info......

Use your eyes , Wilder flat lines people with one shot AJ does not , Aj is a better boxer but one hsot power its not even close,
I would say 100% of the professional boxing community would agree that Wilder is the hardest one shot hitter in the world ,

Even Lewis who had a unreal right hand didn't have the power Wilder has, Lewis was by far abetter boxer so landed it more often and got people out due to this ,

Wilder literally need one shot on anyone , just one and its game over,

For you to say AJ has more one shot power is crazy ,

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Comparing both their resumes you'd have to think Wilder is the bigger puncher. Joshua realistically should've gone the distance with Takam if not for a trigger happy ref. Never had had him really hurt.
.

You make a good point here....but, don't forget that Wilder has not met Takam, so we need a statistical and visual comparison. You can't just pick one example of a fight and use that to make this claim....

If Wilder met Takam then we could get a better understanding.....common opponent, and even then it's not certain....

They only have one common opponent.....Molina.....analyse that.....

One man took him out in 3 rds. Badly hurt him, dropped him heavy and ref saved him. The other man took him out in rd 9

He had him down 3 times prior to the final KO.......

See, detail and analysis is needed. Not just flat out claim about Takam and AJ....

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

For you to say AJ has more one shot power is crazy ,

That's some change of tune. A while ago you could get behind some of the points and criteria presented, and now it's back to your flat out claim of it being crazy to even think that AJ, a very heavy hitter at 250 lbs could possibly generate more one shot power than Wilder, a very heavy hitter at 215 lbs.....

yourdeadwright

Draw

When has AJ hasn't KO'd anyone since he stepped up in level not one person since he won the belt ,

What that 6 fights and no ko's but yet he has a harder one shot than Wilder s

Is he hiding this one shot power for a reason ?

You make great points at times and you bring a lot of enjoyment to the boxing discussion and obviously know your stuff but surely you can't believe AJ has harder one shot power to Wilder ,
I really think you show to have a soft spot for AJ and its leading to this claim

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

For you to say AJ has more one shot power is crazy ,

Just to be clear, I said a gun to my head and had to pick I would pick AJ....

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

That's some change of tune. A while ago you could get behind some of the points and criteria presented, and now it's back to your flat out claim of it being crazy to even think that AJ, a very heavy hitter at 250 lbs could possibly generate more one shot power than Wilder, a very heavy hitter at 215 lbs.....

I agree with you it helps when discussion it between certain fighters but I think Wilder is that far ahead of AJ its just plain obvious .

Wilder is not normal , he is a freak of nature when it comes to punching power,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When has AJ hasn't KO'd anyone since he stepped up in level not one person since he won the belt ,

What that 6 fights and no ko's but yet he has a harder one shot than Wilder s

Is he hiding this one shot power for a reason ?

You make great points at times and you bring a lot of enjoyment to the boxing discussion and obviously know your stuff but surely you can't believe AJ has harder one shot power to Wilder ,
I really think you show to have a soft spot for AJ and its leading to this claim

You are back to this stepped up point

He beat two elites by TKO/KO.

AP and Wlad were taken out.....

I am not with you in this line of thought...

AP was his last fight. A sturdy man never stopped, even by big hitting Wlad...

AJ was the first man to stop AP.......His being 39 has 0 to do with it. AJ landed the power shots and took him out. Up to that, AP was doing very well.

Your point about him not taking men out since he stepped up is completely illogical.....AP was elite ranked, apart from Wilder and Fury he beats everyone IMO.

How more can he step up apart from Wlad and AP? He has yet to meet Fury and Wilder...

ThunderCat

It seems to me that all this talk of power boils down to one particular poster having such a dislike for Fury that instead of giving him due credit (without caveats) for getting up from the knock downs and closing out the fight to the biggest puncher in boxing that he would rather go down the route of playing down that boxers power because he couldn't get Fury out of there.


Just look at Wilders reaction when Fury was down in the 12th and it tells you all you need to know. The shots were heavy enough that Wilder thought he had got him out of there and was doing a little jig, just like he has done against virtually everyone else.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

You are back to this stepped up point

He beat two elites by TKO/KO.

AP and Wlad were taken out.....

I am not with you in this line of thought...

AP was his last fight. A sturdy man never stopped, even by big hitting Wlad...

AJ was the first man to stop AP.......His being 39 has 0 to do with it. AJ landed the power shots and took him out. Up to that, AP was doing very well.

Your point about him not taking men out since he stepped up is completely illogical.....AP was elite ranked, apart from Wilder and Fury he beats everyone IMO.

How more can he step up apart from Wlad and AP? He has yet to meet Fury and Wilder...

Its not about taking them out , its about Koing them flat ,
I'm not doubting how good AJ is or how good his wins are, , All I'm saying is his one shot power is no where near Wilder,

If Wilder landed clean on AP or Wlad its lights out ,

walshb

Wilder Points

ThunderCat wrote: »

It seems to me that all this talk of power boils down to one particular poster having such a dislike for Fury that instead of giving him due credit (without caveats) for getting up from the knock downs and closing out the fight to the biggest puncher in boxing that he would rather go down the route of playing down that boxers power because he couldn't get Fury out of there.


Just look at Wilders reaction when Fury was down in the 12th and it tells you all you need to know. The shots were heavy enough that Wilder thought he had got him out of there and was doing a little jig, just like he has done against virtually everyone else.

Sorry, what has Fury got to do with posters discussing the power of boxers?

Wilder is a massive puncher.....happy?

I just think it's not so clear that he hits harder than AJ

And to you, this is all down to me hating Fury?:rolleyes:

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Wilder landed clean on AP or Wlad its lights out ,

Well, we may never know as regards Wlad.

Wilder-AP could happen....

I wouldn't be so certain at all here.....not saying he couldn't stop him, but I reckon it would be more than one shot for the KO-TKO

AP has a solid chin, as shown by his taking so many heavy shots off Wlad.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Well, we may never know as regards Wlad.

Wilder-AP could happen....

I wouldn't be so certain at all here.....not saying he couldn't stop him, but I reckon it would be more than one shot for the KO-TKO

AP has a solid chin, as shown by his taking so many heavy shots off Wlad.

AP off the juice is not the same man who fought Wlad ,
Honestly I don't think there is a heavy weight you can take Wilder's right hand on the chin, the trick is not to get hit because once he hits you its game over ,

I'd love to see him v AJ as AJ is easy to hit but he will also look to hit Wilder hard , Wilder lands Aj is flat lined, AJ lands big he will jump all over Wilder and finish him .

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

AP off the juice is not the same man who fought Wlad ,
Honestly I don't think there is a heavy weight you can take Wilder's right hand on the chin, the trick is not to get hit because once he hits you its game over ,

I'd love to see him v AJ as AJ is easy to hit but he will also look to hit Wilder hard , Wilder lands Aj is flat lined, AJ lands big he will jump all over Wilder and finish him .

For me Wilder's heaviest shot/best KO shot was that right hand nuke against Kelvin Price........absolute belter....

AP off the juice may not be as good as he was vs. Wlad. I am simply discussing is chin and ability to take a shot.....

I don't think the juice allowed him to keep taking Wlad's shots.....whatever juice he was on back then, if at all back then.....

AP is a fighter with a sturdy chin, juice or no juice...

AJ took him out and badly hurt him.

If you want to go down that juice road, then Fury can be viewed the same.....

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'd love to see him v AJ as AJ is easy to hit but he will also look to hit Wilder hard , Wilder lands Aj is flat lined, AJ lands big he will jump all over Wilder and finish him .

AJ lands flush and clean vs. Wilder I think it's game over via KO or quick follow up...

I am not yet sold on Wilder's chin....

Ortiz had him all over the place, and the shots weren't dynamite either.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

For me Wilder's heaviest shot/best KO shot was that right hand nuke against Kelvin Price........absolute belter....

AP off the juice may not be as good as he was vs. Wlad. I am simply discussing is chin and ability to take a shot.....

I don't think the juice allowed him to keep taking Wlad's shots.....whatever juice he was on back then, if at all back then.....

AP is a fighter with a sturdy chin, juice or no juice...

AJ took him out and badly hurt him.

If you want to go down that juice road, then Fury can be viewed the same.....

They certainly help your chin but in a round about way ,
,
Big shot deplete your gas tank on Juice helps with that ,
Also don't forget when on them you become more powerful and quicker so helps keeping people off you and not being hit with big shots as often ,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They certainly help your chin but in a round about way ,
,
Big shot deplete your gas tank on Juice helps with that ,
Also don't forget when on them you become more powerful and quicker so helps keeping people off you and not being hit with big shots as often ,

So, was he on juice vs Wlad?

Was Fury on it v Wlad?

Come on, let's be fair

Anyway, going a bit off topic here...

AP has historically had a good chin......takes a shot well.

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

,
Big shot deplete your gas tank on Juice helps with that ,
Also don't forget when on them you become more powerful and quicker so helps keeping people off you and not being hit with big shots as often ,

Well, if he was on the juice vs Wlad, it did him eff all use as regards keeping Wlad off him..he got pasted the whole night...

nacho libre

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

AJ lands flush and clean vs. Wilder I think it's game over via KO or quick follow up...

I am not yet sold on Wilder's chin....

Ortiz had him all over the place, and the shots weren't dynamite either.

Ortiz hits hard enough. Are you now implying if Wilder gets knocked out by Joshua he is chinny. You were trying to argue in a previous thread Joshua was chinny because he got knocked down by Wlad. You need to understand, unless you've a chin like Mc Call, if you get hit clean, or even by what you would deem an incorrect punch, you may well go down against a big puncher, it does not mean you are chinny. This is also true about Fury when he went down in that 12th round.
Also Fury was out on the way down in said round, the idea that the left he took on the way down woke him up is nonsense. The reason he beat the count is because of his extraordinary recuperative powers.

walshb

Wilder Points

I am saying that if AJ lands flush on Wilder I think he could take him out...

You have an issue with that?

I am not sold on Wilder having a solid beard...not yet

And I mentioned this after the Ortiz fight...What I saw there had me thinking. And I don’t think I was alone with that thought...Ortiz is a good hitter, and he had Wilder almost out. AJ is a better hitter than Ortiz.....see my logic?

Chinny? That’s just a word...you’re using this word here in relation to my not being sold on Wilder having a solid beard..Just because one thinks a fighter may not have a solid beard doesn’t have to then mean that he is chinny. I shouldn’t have to explain this..

Best to label chins with letters...chinny to me means a boxer who consistently (or on several occasions) demonstrates a weak/poor reaction to a good clean punch..not necessarily even a hard heavy punch. Just clean and on the button..

Examples of solid/rock solid: McCall, Chuvalo, Mercer are A+ or close to it

Chinny: Floyd Patterson, Wlad (yes, Wlad), Michael Moorer...they didn’t react real sturdily to a good clean shot...some of the times they did, of course...

The letters go up and up the weaker the chin is...easy logic to follow..

walshb

Wilder Points

nacho libre wrote: »

Also Fury was out on the way down in said round, the idea that the left he took on the way down woke him up is nonsense. The reason he beat the count is because of his extraordinary recuperative powers.

You know Tyson himself said he was asleep from the shot?

Carl Froch said that his KD vs Groves was him knocked out and that the canvas hit woke him up...

These things can happen,,

Not sure why you almost seem offended by it possibly helping Fury, as if it somehow diminishes his getting up...why are you a bit annoyed with it being considered?

If it makes you happier I will add that when he got up he was very stable on his feet. Alert and with it. Yes, super recuperation. I admit that, because to me it’s true...

Btw, it was not me who said the left Hook on the way down possibly woke him up. That was another poster. Seems your eagerness to engage me/pull me up is making your arguments a bit petty sounding.

yourdeadwright mentioned about the left hook possibly waking him up...maybe have a chat with him about it...

walshb

Wilder Points

Oh, and on the subject of Wilder’s chin. I, and others mentioned that if Fury stepped it up a bit he could possibly take Wilder out...

Do you think this absurd? Fury, a relatively average hitting heavyweight taking Wilder out........sounds crazy to you, nacho?

Right now I am not ready to label Wilder’s chin as solid...

Donald Trump

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

Oh, and on the subject of Wilder’s chin. I, and others mentioned that if Fury stepped it up a bit he could possibly take Wilder out...

Do you think this absurd? Fury, a relatively average hitting heavyweight taking Wilder out........sounds crazy to you, nacho?

Right now I am not ready to label Wilder’s chin as solid...

If the #1 heavyweight couldn't knock Fury out with a clean uppercut to the face, what chance did Wilder have?

Ultimate Seduction

Draw

Wilder mentions the immediate rematch here several times without being asked at all. Seems eager for it to happen ASAP. Hope this happens leave AJ fight White. Good interview

https://youtu.be/rl869laWEew

Ultimate Seduction

Draw

Ring TV reporting this fight did 300k pay per view buys in North America. Thought it would be alot more.

Try_harder

Wilder Points

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Ring TV reporting this fight did 300k pay per view buys in North America. Thought it would be alot more.

Fury was a nobody in America tbf