Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

flatty

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but this is a boxing forum for discussion. I like in-depth and interesting debate around the sport......that's just me.

So do I, but it's unquantifiable and a pointless debate. All you can say is that they are both very heavy hitters. If you enjoy circular argument feel free, but there's no point in endlessly discussing a known unknown.

walshb

Wilder Points

flatty wrote: »

So do I, but it's unquantifiable and a pointless debate. All you can say is that they are both very heavy hitters. If you enjoy circular argument feel free, but there's no point in endlessly discussing a known unknown.

But isn't that part of the debate; some saying or claiming it's clear cut that Wilder hits harder, and others saying that there are too many variables to say with any degree of certainty....

But yes, going around in circles....

The overall general debate on which fighters hits harder is interesting because of all the samples and permutations etc...

Similar to fantasy fight discussions...

Drumpot

Watched Creed 2 last night and couldn't stop thinking of Fury getting up in the 12th … That really was a Rocky like recovery.

walshb

Wilder Points

Donald Trump wrote: »

If the #1 heavyweight couldn't knock Fury out with a clean uppercut to the face, what chance did Wilder have?

One of the best shots the man has ever thrown!

Morrison J

Wilder Points

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Ring TV reporting this fight did 300k pay per view buys in North America. Thought it would be alot more.

When you think the likes of Ward-Kovalev and GGG-Jacobs didn't break 200k I think thats a decent number. Wilder and Fury were unknowns in the States at the time the fight was announced.

walshb

Wilder Points

I don't think Fury is near an unknown; in this day and age where everyone has so much instant access and visibility....

HW lineal champion who beat the great Wlad in Wlad's "hometown."

Globally known Fury.

Similar with Wilder. Of course he is well known in the U.S. He's their number one HW. That's big time...

Globally appreciated and accepted is maybe where this should be looked at....?

ricero

Draw

PPV format is all but nearly dead.

Look at what the wwe did and now even Ufc have signed up to a new deal with espn to stream their events their app. Subscription based streaming looks to be the way forward.

12gauge dave

Wilder Points

Wilder saying he weighed only 208lbs before fight when he wanted to be around 230lbs and that him and his team need to figure reasons for that out, he mentions fury was up around 260lbs before fight.
He also said that he felt the magnitude and pressure of event as he walked out and that he struggled to settle and stick to his gameplan.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

I don't think Fury is near an unknown; in this day and age where everyone has so much instant access and visibility....

HW lineal champion who beat the great Wlad in Wlad's "hometown."

Globally known Fury.

Similar with Wilder. Of course he is well known in the U.S. He's their number one HW. That's big time...

Globally appreciated and accepted is maybe where this should be looked at....?

Historically the only fights that break 300k in the States are involving mainstream stars like Floyd, Cotto, Canelo, Pacquiao. Guys with massive fanbases. At the time of the fight being announced neither Wilder or Fury were in the same stratosphere as these names. Thats not even arguable.

I think a rematch could run 1 million buys close which is amazing really. Promotion was brilliant for the first fight but the rematch would be another level. If the rematch does 1 million PPV's then the winner should be getting at least a 50-50 split with Joshua.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Historically the only fights that break 300k in the States are involving mainstream stars like Floyd, Cotto, Canelo, Pacquiao. Guys with massive fanbases. At the time of the fight being announced neither Wilder or Fury were in the same stratosphere as these names. Thats not even arguable.

I think a rematch could run 1 million buys close which is amazing really. Promotion was brilliant for the first fight but the rematch would be another level. If the rematch does 1 million PPV's then the winner should be getting at least a 50-50 split with Joshua.

I am not really meaning the figures done...

I was more talking about their name recognition.....both are known very well in the U.S.

And Fury is known really well outside the U.S.

My query was that I don't think their skills and styles and talents are really appreciated or warmed to, and that this will affect interest.

walshb

Wilder Points

12gauge dave wrote: »

Wilder saying he weighed only 208lbs before fight when he wanted to be around 230lbs .

That's weird.....

212 lbs for weigh in, and 4 lbs lighter in the ring?

Not buying that.......not saying it's untrue, juts would like to see some proof....

He really is some specimen....

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

I am not really meaning the figures done...

I was more talking about their name recognition.....both are known very well in the U.S.

And Fury is known really well outside the U.S.

My query was that I don't think their skills and styles and talents are really appreciated or warmed to, and that this will affect interest.

Before this fight you think Fury was very well known in the US?

normanoffside

Draw

walshb wrote: »

That's weird.....

212 lbs for weigh in, and 4 lbs lighter in the ring?

Not buying that.......not saying it's untrue, juts would like to see some proof....

He really is some specimen....

I mentioned at the time, he was wearing a big Gimp mask and tracksuit bottoms on the scales.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Before this fight you think Fury was very well known in the US?

Yes.

Fury is global. Known everywhere for a host of reasons....people in the U.S. aren't cut off from what is happening outside the U.S. Plus, today everyone has instant access to everyone else....

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Yes.

Fury is global. Known everywhere for a host of reasons....people in the U.S. aren't cut off from what is happening outside the U.S. Plus, today everyone has instant access to everyone else....

Boxing isn't a mainstream sport in the US like it is the UK though. There's a massive difference. Only US boxing fans would've known who Fury was this time last year. Your average person on the street wouldn't have had a clue.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Boxing isn't a mainstream sport in the US like it is the UK though. There's a massive difference. Only US boxing fans would've known who Fury was this time last year. Your average person on the street wouldn't have had a clue.

I disagree.

Fury has been in the news for so much, that was outside if strict boxing as well...

If you're are using the excuse that boxing isn't mainstream, then you could argue that no boxer is global then...

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

I disagree.

Fury has been in the news for so much, that was outside if strict boxing as well...

If you're are using the excuse that boxing isn't mainstream, then you could argue that no boxer is global then...

List these things. Before Saturday, whats Fury made headlines in the States for?

You do realise that you could count on one hand the amount of times boxing makes headlines in the States each year?

funkey_monkey

Wilder Points

Why was Wilder surprised that he weighed in at 209?
Did they not bother weighing him at all during the run up to the fight? Especially as he said he was looking to come in around 220 - 230.

Sounds like bollocks. Maybe decided to come in light and tire Fury out with a high tempo.

bono_v

There’s has been some turnaround in public opinion of Fury. Not once in the build up to the fight was he asked to clarify his homophobic feelings as far as I heard. And it also seems that his doping ban has been whitewashed from history- not one mention of it from any media.

normanoffside

Draw

bono_v wrote: »

There’s has been some turnaround in public opinion of Fury. Not once in the build up to the fight was he asked to clarify his homophobic feelings as far as I heard. .

Not excusing him, but I looked again at that video where he made those comments and he was clearly in a bad place and not exactly sober either.

I do hope he comes out and retracts the comments. I heard Andy lee say earlier in the week saying he doesn't think Fury really believes what he said.

bono_v

normanoffside wrote: »

Not excusing him, but I looked again at that video where he made those comments and he was clearly in a bad place and not exactly sober either.

I do hope he comes out and retracts the comments. I heard Andy lee say earlier in the week saying he doesn't think Fury really believes what he said.

That’s why it’s so important he does come out and clarify everything. But nothing. Just silence.
.....And then there’s the doping.....

walshb

Wilder Points

bono_v wrote: »

There’s has been some turnaround in public opinion of Fury. Not once in the build up to the fight was he asked to clarify his homophobic feelings as far as I heard. And it also seems that his doping ban has been whitewashed from history- not one mention of it from any media.

I think the same as I always have on this...

Fury for me was acting the maggot, misbehaving and getting involved in criminal acts...but sure isn’t that what everyone does when they are depressed, as he claimed he was?

Was this depression/bipolar angle really genuine? Or maybe a convenient excuse?

People are uneasy with these type questions...nobody seems allowed to challenge anyone who has claimed that their actions and behavior were because they were in a “dark place.”

I always wonder why such sensitivity...

Just wait for some of the hysterical replies here slamming my asking such horrible unfair questions...

bono_v

walshb wrote: »

I think the same as I always have on this...

Fury for me was acting the maggot, misbehaving and getting involved in criminal acts...but sure isn’t that what everyone does when they are depressed, as he claimed he was?

Was this depression/bipolar angle really genuine? Or maybe a convenient excuse?

People are uneasy with these type questions...nobody seems allowed to challenge anyone who has claimed that their actions and behavior were because they were in a “dark place.”

I always wonder why such sensitivity...

Just wait for some of the hysterical replies here slamming my asking such horrible unfair questions...

I remember watching him at press conference before the second Klitschko fight that was cancelled. To be fair he did not seem like a well man at all.
It’s the silence on the homophobia and doping from the media I can’t understand.

normanoffside

Draw

bono_v wrote: »

I remember watching him at press conference before the second Klitschko fight that was cancelled. To be fair he did not seem like a well man at all.
It’s the silence on the homophobia and doping from the media I can’t understand.

I'm not gonna excuse the doping but there has been a lot of it of late in boxing and He's the only one to have served a proper ban.

walshb

Wilder Points

bono_v wrote: »

I remember watching him at press conference before the second Klitschko fight that was cancelled. To be fair he did not seem like a well man at all.
It’s the silence on the homophobia and doping from the media I can’t understand.

He may well have been “unwell.” It doesn’t excuse any of the behavior. Or explain it...

Plenty people out there unwell and under stress and depressed that don’t get involved with class A drugs, for example. Quite a serious criminal behavior...

And his attitude to that was fook society. If I want to get involved in a world where class A drugs are involved, I will. That was his answer to society...

A society that has been ripped to pieces in many areas due to these drugs...

walshb

Wilder Points

normanoffside wrote: »

I'm not gonna excuse the doping but there has been a lot of it of late in boxing and He's the only one to have served a proper ban.

As he should under the procedures in place.

Do people take his Wlad win as genuine? That’s another question...

Nandrolone detected in his system a while before that fight...

Lineal champion with a big * beside it...

On this forum he has to be the most protected boxer as regards criticism. It’s like folks are tip toeing around the subject.

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

He may well have been “unwell.” It doesn’t excuse any of the behavior. Or explain it...

Plenty people out there unwell and under stress and depressed that don’t get involved with class A drugs, for example. Quite a serious criminal behavior...

And his attitude to that was fook society. If I want to get involved in a world where class A drugs are involved, I will. That was his answer to society...

A society that has been ripped to pieces in many areas due to these drugs...

You are warming up to it now

Let it all out !

walshb

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

You are warming up to it now

Let it all out !

Ah, the relief!

walshb

Wilder Points

Just to add...in the last few days and weeks I have been warming to Fury a bit...

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

Just to add...in the last few days and weeks I have been warming to Fury a bit...

No one cares!