Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

No one cares!

So why are you here, pal?

Lighten up. It’s only a bita banter....

wadacrack

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

I think the same as I always have on this...

Fury for me was acting the maggot, misbehaving and getting involved in criminal acts...but sure isn’t that what everyone does when they are depressed, as he claimed he was?

Was this depression/bipolar angle really genuine? Or maybe a convenient excuse?

People are uneasy with these type questions...nobody seems allowed to challenge anyone who has claimed that their actions and behavior were because they were in a “dark place.”

I always wonder why such sensitivity...

Just wait for some of the hysterical replies here slamming my asking such horrible unfair questions...

Yes it was genuine. Fury should be commended for the way he has been so open about this in the last few months. Im sure hes helped alot of people in similar positions.

He seems to have come through this as a much better person aswell.

walshb

Wilder Points

wadacrack wrote: »

Yes it was genuine.

You believe or you know?

Just wondering....

Was he actually medically diagnosed:certified as bipolar?

walshb

Wilder Points

pac_man wrote: »

The fact that you're questioning the legitimacy of someones mental health makes you out to be an arsehole.

Really?

So, can you answer or not? I’m not questioning the legitimacy of anyone’s “mental health,” whatever that means.

Was he actually medically diagnosed with bipolar?

It’s a simple question. Not sure why anyone would be so offended by the question, as you seem to be?

Here’s one: no psychiatrist worth their salt would ever diagnose a person who is off their heads on drugs and alcohol as being bipolar...and Fury himself said that he was off his head on alcohol and drugs to deal with his depression..not a psychiatrists diagnosis, his diagnosis.

Hence why I have asked the question....who diagnosed/certified him as suffering with depression/bipolar?

Are we really that sensitive, and in your case, incapable of actually debating it without resorting to labeling people arseholes.

It’s not like I am saying Fury is the Antichrist. He’s not.

robwen

Draw

Wilder is down to do the Joe Rogan podcast next Monday, Fury was very good on it few weeks before the fight

Ultimate Seduction

Draw

Fury isn't right in the head even still that's fairly obvious. His depression started just as he pissed hot. It was on around the same day that he was given a backdated ban and cleared to fight that he started being happy again. Now I'm a big fury fan but also very cynical..

SHOVELLER

Well saturday was certainly a great night for the sport. Even the Stevenson fight was absorbing but the main event, while not a classic, was a great occasion despite the result. A fascinating and captivating watch.

Have to say like many never a huge fan of Fury the man but always a big fan as the best in this division. But he played the game superbly over here. No whinging after the fight and a complete charm offensive proving the old adage of getting the media onside. Can only hope that his previous controversial remarks are as a result of the dark places he was in as Andy Lee alluded to. But this country likes nothing more than a comeback and Fury has provided that in spades.

Also like many I had him a narrow winner but the old adage is true. If you fight a Champion on his home soil the only guaranteed way to win is by knocking him out so when the draw result came in I wasnt exactly bowled over. However Paulie is right about the Mexican judge. That scorecard was ridiculous from a judge who had presided over a thousand fights. There is no conspiracy or payoff though. Just human nature to be incompetent or be swayed by the home crowd. I witnessed this first hand at the first Ward Kovalev fight.

Overall this result is only good for the sport and this division as a rematch is a lock and the real winner is Joshua as he can just sit back and wait the winner.

Wilder coming out after the fight saying he had broken his arm before camp is reminiscent of Pacquiao's comments after losing to Mayweather.

He is very much a one dimensional model of a fighter. No doubting his devastating power but he spent the fight looking for this ko and Fury was too good for him. Fury out boxed him and out thought him and his defense was superb. The feints, the taunts and the counters were a masterclass. However the timing of the knockdown in the last round was perfect for Wilder and helped him retain his belts.

Is this result a stain on boxing? I dont believe so because when Fury gets all the belts this will stand to him and it keeps us all talking about the rematch. The most lucrative PPV in fifteen years in this division but interesting that 10 million watched this illegally!

Dan Rafael and Lou DiBella both gave the fight to Wilder!

Just to add at the end, just like Bellew, the constant need to pay tribute to his opponent was nauseating. Go over shake his hand and have a few words but this kissing his hands and the constant need to hug and talk is offputting.

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

Really?

So, can you answer or not? I’m not questioning the legitimacy of anyone’s “mental health,” whatever that means.

Was he actually medically diagnosed with bipolar?

It’s a simple question. Not sure why anyone would be so offended by the question, as you seem to be?

Here’s one: no psychiatrist worth their salt would ever diagnose a person who is off their heads on drugs and alcohol as being bipolar...and Fury himself said that he was off his head on alcohol and drugs to deal with his depression..not a psychiatrists diagnosis, his diagnosis.

Hence why I have asked the question....who diagnosed/certified him as suffering with depression/bipolar?

Are we really that sensitive, and in your case, incapable of actually debating it without resorting to labeling people arseholes.

It’s not like I am saying Fury is the Antichrist. He’s not.

How would we know who certified him? Since when does someone attach an appendix to their public statements with official medical documents in order to satisfy people who can't help but play devils advocate??

Regarding him being "off his head" and how that would somehow mitigate against a bipolar diagnosis, their is a far higher rate of addiction amongst people with bipolar disorder than there is among people without mental health issues, so if anything Fury's compulsive behaviour and addictive tendencies would have immediately put him in the high risk category for mental health issues. Have you never heard of self-medicating??

Are you really this committed to discussing a topic you are presenting yourself as being completely ignorant of?

wadacrack

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

You believe or you know?

Just wondering....

Was he actually medically diagnosed:certified as bipolar?

I dont know but mental health is not so black and white. He showed many symptoms of someone who wasnt in a good mental state pre and post the Klitchsko fight.

That and the contrast to his behavior the last few months is good enough for me.

walshb

Wilder Points

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fury isn't right in the head even still that's fairly obvious..

Maybe I’m a bit cynical...

But isn’t it a little coincidental, and possibly convenient that this depression/ bipolarism kicked in about that time...the time he started behaving the way he did

Anyway, depressed or not I don’t see the fuss or outrage with those that are not ready to believe all his claims here...

And even if I did genuinely believe he was suffering with bipolar, so what...

Nobody here has actually said what they think about his behavior. It’s all just “sure wasn’t he depressed.”

His involvement/use of class A drugs, for example...and his eff society in that regard...

walshb

Wilder Points

wadacrack wrote: »

I dont know but mental health is not so black and white. He showed many symptoms of someone who wasnt in a good mental state pre and post the Klitchsko fight.

That and the contrast to his behavior the last few months is good enough for me.

Fair enough. And I appreciate your responding here in an adult:mature way, with some reasoning. Not an attack/hostile “you’re an asshole for questioning this” way..

Agreed. Depression and bipolar are very complex, hence my wondering if actual professionals made a certified diagnosis, not an online internet crowd..

The last few months. The bits I and we have seen/heard. Like I said, I have kind of warmed to him...

Here’s one. He’s free from alcohol and drugs now it appears. Could that be the reason his behavior seems a lot more normal and acceptable?

Was it not the coke and alcohol that was the issue here? The things he said he was on to cope with depression....

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

Fury was talking about his mental health issues long before his fight with Wlad. Check his interview with Donald McCrae where he talks about feeling like topping himself some days. This was back in 2010, i think.

It's fine to be cynical and i'm a little cynical in regards to certain aspects of his story too, but it's not something he plucked out of thin air. Drug and alcohol abuse and extreme weight gain are not exactly inconsistent with poor mental health either.

walshb

Wilder Points

Maybe I am too cynical..

My point was not necessarily whether he had depression, more using it to excuse his behavior. I thought he hammed it up, and people bought it..

More bizarre is people getting offended because it is challenged?

Not everyone who behaves badly did so because they just couldn’t help themselves...because they were depressed. And even if they were, so what. It’s no excuse in my book.

Separate point: Society today I find is full of people looking to not take responsibility for their behavior, and using every angle and excuse to explain it...

Deep down Fury I believe has a good heart. Something inherently decent about him..despite some of his recent behaviors that I really dislike/detest.

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

Maybe I am too cynical..

My point was not necessarily whether he had depression, more using it to excuse his behavior. I thought he hammed it up, and people bought it..

More bizarre is people getting offended because it is challenged?

Not everyone who behaves badly did so because they just couldn’t help themselves...because they were depressed. And even if they were, so what. It’s no excuse in my book.

Separate point: Society today I find is full of people looking to not take responsibility for their behavior, and using every angle and excuse to explain it...

How did he use it to excuse his behaviour? Do you have any direct quotes that reflect this?

I've not heard him say '...but i only did it because..' etc. As far as i can tell he's only spoken matter of factly. Got depressed, went off the rails, drank and did coke. If that's how it went down, that's how it went down. I don't see why he should omit details to appease others.

It's hardly uncommon for people to turn to drink or drugs when at their lowest.

Mantis Toboggan

Draw

Fury has been suffering bipolar and depression for years, it's not a recent thing.

walshb

Wilder Points

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Fury has been suffering bipolar and depression for years, it's not a recent thing.

That's fine....

I just thought the two issues of his behavior and his health were a bit too conflated...

And folks were almost afraid to criticize the behavior because they'd be then be accused of not having sympathy for the health side, as is evident with the posts here.

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

That's fine....

I just thought the two issues of his behavior and his health were a bit too conflated...

And folks were almost afraid to criticize the behavior because they'd be then be accused of not having sympathy for the health side, as is evident with the posts here.

not you though, grasped that nettle manfully :pac:

Mantis Toboggan

Draw

Check out @AdamCatterall’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/AdamCatterall/status/1069985975575736320?s=09

sham69

Draw

I don't often post in here in fear of getting lashed by the experts in here and class myself as a casual boxing fan with limited knowledge.

regarding fury , I think people can change.
Yes he has said and done some bad things in the past but obviously he was going through some sort of depression/meltdown.

Joshua hasnt exactly had a whiter then white past but that seems to have been forgotten.
GBH, multiple brushes with the law and arrests for drugs, albeit only cannabis.

There seems to be double standards going on regarding these two boxers.

Love him or hate him, what Fury managed to acheive last Saturday night is nothing short of miraculous.
I really enjoyed the fight and although Wilder is far from the danger man everyone predicted (apart from the last round) Fury completely outboxed him.
This together with his display against Klitchko make him better than Joshua in my eyes.

Just my humble opinion as a casual who's been watching boxing for many years.

I think last weekends result has made the HW division very interesting, I wonder what Joshua's next move will be.
I think he feels a bit left out in the cold after last weekend.

walshb

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

not you though, grasped that nettle manfully :pac:

I know....never one to shy away from saying it as it is....

But, you get labeled a contrarian then....

That's why I admire people like the late George Carlin, and Jordan Peterson.....they're not perfect, but a lot of the stuff they say is so spot on.

Closing here now......to reiterate; Fury is a good skin I believe.....good heart and a man who I believe would help people...look out for those suffering.

walshb

Wilder Points

sham69 wrote: »

Joshua hasnt exactly had a whiter then white past but that seems to have been forgotten.
GBH, multiple brushes with the law and arrests for drugs, albeit only cannabis.

There seems to be double standards going on regarding these two boxers.
.

Double standards in what regard? Their outside ring behaviors?

Certainly not me....it seems that you may be pointing at me here. I could be wrong. Just wondering.

Anyone want to discuss AJs outside ring behaviors away you go....

He gets 0 passes from me for any nefarious or criminal or less than desirable behavior outside of the ring.....and I have never ever felt or said or thought otherwise...

sham69

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Double standards in what regard? Their outside ring behaviors?

Certainly not me....

Anyone want to discuss AJs outside ring behaviors away you go....

He gets 0 passes from me for any nefarious or criminal or less than desirable behavior outside of the ring.....and I have never ever felkt or said or thought otherwise...

jaysus don't want to fall out with you walshb.
I didnt mean you.
I think the press , certain boxing fans , media etc have overlooked Joshua's past whilst lambasting Fury.
As I said, just my opinion.

walshb

Wilder Points

sham69 wrote: »

jaysus don't want to fall out with you walshb.
I didnt mean you.
I think the press , certain boxing fans , media etc have overlooked Joshua's past whilst lambasting Fury.
As I said, just my opinion.

Okey doke....

I was just checking. Yes, I see your point.

But Fury is the one in the news of recent times, during his popularity and boxing career. AJs past seems in the past. Since he took up the sport I don't believe there have been any indiscretions or bad behavior. Sky have him molded into a role model.

This is why you will see a lot more column inches for Fury's misbehaviors the past few years....

While Fury was off misbehaving, AJ was becoming a global star and winning titles...

sham69

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Okey doke....

I was just checking. Yes, I see your point.

But Fury is the one in the news of recent times, during his popularity and boxing career. AJs past seems in the past. Since he took up the sport I don't believe there have been any indiscretions or bad behavior. Sky have him molded into a role model.

This is why you will see a lot more column inches for Fury's misbehaviors the past few years....

While Fury was off misbehaving, AJ was becoming a global star and winning titles...

All fair points,
but he's back now
interesting times ahead.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Okey doke....

AJs past seems in the past. Since he took up the sport I don't believe there have been any indiscretions or bad behavior. Sky have him molded into a role model.

This is why you will see a lot more column inches for Fury's misbehaviors the past few years....

Joshua made comments last year about the 'superior black race' and not one bit of media picked up on it. Imagine if Fury said anything remotely racist, it'd be everywhere. There's definitely a massive double standard.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Joshua made comments last year about the 'superior black race' and not one bit of media picked up on it. Imagine if Fury said anything remotely racist, it'd be everywhere. There's definitely a massive double standard.

I remember those comments, and he got stick for them....

Floyd the same with similar comments.....

Fury a lot more newsworthy as regards controversy in the recent years.....can't argue that...

I don't think AJ would be immune if he was to, for example, admit to doing copious amounts of class A drugs, and fobbing it off as I can do what I want attitude...

AJ I believe was involved in gang type activity and drugs from years ago?

Part of this query as regards double standard is due to the fact that nobody knew AJ pre 2012 London.......

Fury and his behaviors were happening when he was so well known...That is bound to affect perception, column inches and how the public and media treat both.....

Post 2012, really, apart from some mutterings from AJ, he's been as clean as a whistle, relatively speaking......

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

I remember those comments, and he got stick for them....

Floyd the same with similar comments.....

Fury a lot more newsworthy as regards controversy in the recent years.....can't argue that...

I don't think AJ would be immune if he was to, for example, admit to doing copious amounts of class A drugs, and fobbing it off as I can do what I want attitude...

AJ I believe was involved in gang type activity and drugs from years ago?

What would you like to see happen with regards to the 'copious amounts of class A drugs'?

The fact is that nobody cares if someone snorts a bit of coke. What that says about society, you can draw your own conclusions.

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

The fact is that nobody cares if someone snorts a bit of coke. What that says about society, you can draw your own conclusions.

This is what I am talking about. Plenty people and plenty of good people and governments etc do care about the scourge of class A drugs on society. The implications can be catastrophic on communities....

I feel odd having to point this stuff out....illegal drugs in society is a massive societal problem. Cocaine is a class A drug. The ramifications from it and what it brings to societies can have devastating impacts.

So, yes, plenty do care about people snorting copious amounts of cocaine, and being in possession of said drugs......

The serious drugs problem doesn't just lie with the big sellers/crime gangs; all those in between, and including the buyers are the problem....ALL them

I realize that there are certain sections of society who don't give a sh1t, but aren't these also part of the wider problem?

Would you not give a sh1t, for example if your next door neighbor was snorting class A drugs, in large amounts? Would it not at all concern you that these drugs are in your community, and that the person involved could bring real problems to your community? Where is he getting them, who is providing them, and will anything possibly kick off from it?

Anyway, veering off topic. Crime and drugs in society is a whole other topic....

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

I remember those comments, and he got stick for them....

He got stick from the general public but none of the mainstream media reported on it to the same degree they would've if it was from the mouth of Fury. Imagine if Fury had talked about a superior white race. His career would've been in ruins. With Joshua nobody cared. Thats the double standard.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

He got stick from the general public but none of the mainstream media reported on it to the same degree they would've if it was from the mouth of Fury. Imagine if Fury had talked about a superior white race. His career would've been in ruins. With Joshua nobody cared. Thats the double standard.

Sorry, but you don't know that.......

It could well be a double standard...

But...any white man coming out saying that the white race/color is superior to the black race/color is of course going to generate more scorn and comdemmation. Surely you see this?

AJs bib has been pretty clean the past few years. It really is that simple....

If it wasn't, you can bet there would be writings about it and repercussions, depending on the severity or level of his actions.....

If AJ came out tomorrow and started that homophobic crap that Tyson spouted, you really think he would get off lightly?