Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

This is what I am talking about. Plenty people and plenty of good people and governments etc do care about the scourge of class A drugs on society. The implications can be catastrophic on communities....

I feel odd having to point this stuff out....illegal drugs in society is a massive societal problem. Cocaine is a class A drug. The ramifications from it and what it brings to societies can have devastating impacts.

So, yes, plenty do care about people snorting copious amounts of cocaine, and being in possession of said drugs......

The serious drugs problem doesn't just lie with the big sellers/crime gangs; all those in between, and including the buyers are the problem....ALL them

I realize that there are certain sections of society who don't give a sh1t, but aren't these also part of the wider problem?

Would you not give a sh1t, for example if your next door neighbor was snorting class A drugs, in large amounts? Would it not at all concern you that these drugs are in your community, and that the person involved could bring real problems to your community? Where is he getting them, who is providing them, and will anything possibly kick off from it?

Anyway, veering off topic. Crime and drugs in society is a whole other topic....

But what do you want from Tyson Fury with regards to this? What exactly is your complaint?

Nobody cares. Kalle Sauerland turns up to press conferences pulling the best of faces and he's a hero. McGregor is rumoured to be a coke fiend and people love him for it, it's all part of the persona - whether he is a coke fiend or not.

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

But what do you want from Tyson Fury with regards to this? What exactly is your complaint?

.

You obviously missed this, or read it and didn't understand what I meant:

"The serious drugs problem doesn't just lie with the big sellers/crime gangs; all those in between, and including the buyers are the problem....ALL them.!”

Anyway, as I said it's veering off topic....drugs/crime and its societal effects/impact is a whole other discussion.

Thread has meandered onto possible double standards between how the media treat Fury and AJ.

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

You obviously missed this, or read it and didn't understand what I meant:

"The serious drugs problem doesn't just lie with the big sellers/crime gangs; all those in between, and including the buyers are the problem....ALL them.!”

Anyway, as I said it's veering off topic....drugs/crime and its societal effects/impact is a whole other discussion.

Thread has meandered onto possible double standards between how the media treat Fury and AJ.

Right, but what now? What would you like to see happen? You talk about people excusing his behaviour. It's not necessarily that they're making allowances for him doing a bit of coke. People simply don't care.

Is it the lack of outrage that upsets you?

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Right, but what now? What would you like to see happen? You talk about people excusing his behaviour. It's not necessarily that they're making allowances for him doing a bit of coke. People simply don't care.

Is it the lack of outrage that upsets you?

What do you mean, what now?

He’s back. Seems happy. Is back boxing and giving fans the fights they want...

Lack of outrage doesn’t upset me at all. No surprise really. That’s people...doesn’t affect me personally.

What we have been discussing is Fury’s past behaviors. It’s in the past. He seems to be moving on.

wadacrack

Wilder Points

article on Fury's doping

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/stop-the-tyson-fury-bandwagon-he-must-answer-on-doping-before-speaking-of-honour-z67gln6tx

Dick phelan

Joshua hits very hard, Wilder hits with scary historically great power, For comparison Joshua didn't drop Whyte in the first despite hitting him clean several times, Honestly as tough as Whyte is if Wilder landed that clean he wouldn't be taking them. Regardless it's clear both AJ and Wilder have the power to spark out anyone out, Wilder lacks so much but the bloke literally only needs to land a couple of times and he will win, He barely hit Fury with a clean shot yet managed to drop him twice. The man's a freak and it's god given power because he doesn't even punch with good technique, a bit like Furys movement for his size, to me that's a natural gift no amount of training can give you likewise you can't teach Wilders power the man's just blessed with bombs in his hands.

walshb

Wilder Points

You make a point that I have been touching on as regards the two..

Wilder: “He doesn’t even punch with good technique..”

It’s this, along with AJs quiet solid technique and 250 lbs frame, and natural power, that I think it prudent and logical to not be at all so sure that Wilder hits harder...

blade1

Wilder Points

Here's another good angle of the 12th round

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCFrI6Rxs9E

Ultimate Seduction

Draw

Eddie Hearns take on the fight and what's next. He really wants AJ v Fury and admits fury is a tougher fight than Wilder

blade1

Wilder Points

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Eddie Hearns take on the fight and what's next. He really wants AJ v Fury and admits fury is a tougher fight than Wilder

So what he is really saying is there's a bigger risk of getting knocked out fighting Wilder.

Ultimate Seduction

Draw

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Eddie Hearns take on the fight and what's next. He really wants AJ v Fury and admits fury is a tougher fight than Wilder

https://youtu.be/_rCT0PETXws

Ultimate Seduction

Draw

blade1 wrote: »

So what he is really saying is there's a bigger risk of getting knocked out fighting Wilder.

Yrs he literally said that in the interview I posted link. Fury is a harder fight to win, wilder is more dangerous.

megadodge

Draw

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Eddie Hearns take on the fight and what's next. He really wants AJ v Fury and admits fury is a tougher fight than Wilder

Fury IS a tougher fight.

Wilder has a small puncher's chance and that's it. I honestly think Joshua will not just win but he'll beat Wilder up. He'll hurt him while outboxing him.

Fury on the other hand has the skills to keep Joshua off, but not by as big a margin as he had over Wilder. Joshua's offense is much, much more varied and unpredictable than Wilder's obvious swings, so Joshua will be landing more than Wilder did. If I had confidence in Fury's chin I'd make it 50/50, but the knockdown in the 9th was from a completely innocuous punch bothers me. His powers of recovery are remarkable, but you can't afford to be going down too often.

normanoffside

Draw

bono_v wrote: »

There’s has been some turnaround in public opinion of Fury. Not once in the build up to the fight was he asked to clarify his homophobic feelings as far as I heard. And it also seems that his doping ban has been whitewashed from history- not one mention of it from any media.

Worth a read, Pretty much sums up you point.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/boxing/ewan-mackenna-tyson-furys-comeback-is-one-of-sports-great-stories-but-that-doesnt-wash-away-his-dark-past-37601417.html

walshb

Wilder Points

My only concern for AJ is Wilder knocking him out...

Failing this he dominates and knocks Wilder out as soon as he lands heavy...

Draw

Fury would be lethal if he possessed real KO power.

walshb

Wilder Points

Deleted User wrote: »

Fury would be lethal if he possessed real KO power.

Even heavy enough hands, and a sturdy chin...

A lot of his punches are slaps with open gloves. They get very little behind them..

Previous fights pre Wlad he showed real decent connections. Heavy enough impact.

Solid beard and good power and he would be a real threat to AJ

As it stands he needs to be very careful and defensive....very risky..

Donald Trump

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, but you don't know that.......

It could well be a double standard...

But...any white man coming out saying that the white race/color is superior to the black race/color is of course going to generate more scorn and comdemmation. Surely you see this?

AJs bib has been pretty clean the past few years. It really is that simple....

If it wasn't, you can bet there would be writings about it and repercussions, depending on the severity or level of his actions.....

If AJ came out tomorrow and started that homophobic crap that Tyson spouted, you really think he would get off lightly?

Well if people need to be scolded for "forgetting" things that Fury said in the past, surely the same standard must apply to Joshua and things he did? Given that he was caught with an amount of drugs beyond what could plausibly be explained as being for "personal use". Stopped while wearing his Team GB tracksuit if the story is correct.




I don't have anything against either. Just if you want to compare past indiscretions, I would see Joshua's as far more serious.

walshb

Wilder Points

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well if people need to be scolded for "forgetting" things that Fury said in the past, surely the same standard must apply to Joshua and things he did? Given that he was caught with an amount of drugs beyond what could plausibly be explained as being for "personal use". Stopped while wearing his Team GB tracksuit if the story is correct.




I don't have anything against either. Just if you want to compare past indiscretions, I would see Joshua's as far more serious.

My point with AJ and his past was clear...

The reason it didn’t get the same traction and attention was due to it happening before anyone ever heard of him...

I certainly am not excusing his past behavior, just making the point that it happened when he was an unknown, hence it garnered little attention..

Fury’s troubles happened during his career as a well known boxer, hence it being very much in the news and known to the public..

Btw, just wondering on drugs possession? Was it cannabis? I am sure it was herbal cannabis.

Is that more serious than Fury being in possession of cocaine? Fury admits to using a lot of it, hence he must have had possession of it...regardless of whether law enforcement caught him..

Cannabis is not a class A drug....Cocaine is...

Both crimes. I am just responding to your matter of fact claim that AJs possession troubles are “far more serious” than Fury’s troubles..

Donald Trump

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

My point with AJ and his past was clear...

The reason it didn’t get the same traction and attention was due to it happening before anyone ever heard of him...

I certainly am not excusing his past behavior, just making the point that it happened when he was an unknown, hence it garnered little attention..

Fury’s troubles happened during his career as a well known boxer, hence it being very much in the news and known to the public..

Btw, just wondering on AJs drugs possession? Was it cannabis?

Is that more serious than Fury being on possession of cocaine? Fury admits to using a lot of it, hence he must have had possession of it...

Cannsbis is not a class A drug....Cocaine is...

Joshua's story made the news at the time. Same as Billy Joe Saunders did when I think he was suspended for doing some stuff while representing GB abroad.



Doesn't matter the class of the drug. Distribution of an illegal substance is orders of magnitude above consumption of an illegal substance. If you are distributing it, you are doing it to make profit. Presumably, given he was most likely being funded at the time and having his living covered by boxing, he probably wasn't even using it himself. So purely to profit off it

walshb

Wilder Points

Donald Trump wrote: »

Joshua's story made the news at the time. Same as Billy Joe Saunders did when I think he was suspended for doing some stuff while representing GB abroad.



Doesn't matter the class of the drug. Distribution of an illegal substance is orders of magnitude above consumption of an illegal substance. If you are distributing it, you are doing it to make profit. Presumably, given he was most likely being funded at the time and having his living covered by boxing, he probably wasn't even using it himself. So purely to profit off it

Hold on...

Distribution...that was not the charge...

They mentioned intent to supply, but the fact it was so small he got off of a sentence..

Anyway, I am on record about AJ and his past behaviors. Had it not been for boxing he’d likely be banged up...

Bit of a bad boy nasty streak in him I reckon...

Fury for me is probably deep down the more decent skin...

walshb

Wilder Points

Donald Trump wrote: »

Presumably, given he was most likely being funded at the time and having his living covered by boxing, he probably wasn't even using it himself. So purely to profit off it

I don’t disagree here. Quite likely..

Donald Trump

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

I don’t disagree here. Quite likely..

It wasn't the worlds worst crime. Look, the fella made a mistake. I wouldn't hold it against him now or measure him against it.



And Fury said very bad things. At least these days they are understood to be terrible things. 30 years ago though and what he said would have been commonplace. That's not to excuse it. He said things he shouldn't have said but the man isn't a politician. I think he's a bit of a looper, but he's seems like a decent fella overall. He's not Mike Tyson acting like an animal and threatening to eat his opponents kids.



It's fair enough if people want to say they think he isn't the best heavyweight out there. That's a personal opinion. But he has proven himself to be able to cope with boxers whom others say are the best. You have to give him that he isn't out of his depth at the highest level. It's a global sport. And he's at the top of it. He was out for a while and he basically jumped right back in. And took a fight that plenty of others wouldn't take.

walshb

Wilder Points

normanoffside wrote: »

Worth a read, Pretty much sums up you point.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/boxing/ewan-mackenna-tyson-furys-comeback-is-one-of-sports-great-stories-but-that-doesnt-wash-away-his-dark-past-37601417.html

There’s almost an identical version of this article in The Independent. I wonder did Ewan “copy” it...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tyson-fury-deontay-wilder-bbc-sports-personality-year-2019-racism-homophobia-antisemitism-a8668091.html?amp

Even Ewan’s use of what people, in reference to Tyson being the people’s Champion...

BBC SPOTY is next....

nacho libre

Wilder Points

robwen wrote: »

Wilder is down to do the Joe Rogan podcast next Monday, Fury was very good on it few weeks before the fight

Listening to him in the build up to the fight was enough. Fury is a far more captivating character.
Wilder will list all the reasons he didn't win by ko - slow count, broken arm, nerves etc, then he will go on to say he is not making excuses....

nacho libre

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Oh, and on the subject of Wilder’s chin. I, and others mentioned that if Fury stepped it up a bit he could possibly take Wilder out...

Do you think this absurd? Fury, a relatively average hitting heavyweight taking Wilder out........sounds crazy to you, nacho?

Right now I am not ready to label Wilder’s chin as solid...

I think we can agree on this point, Fury is not a power puncher, if he was given his natural skill, for me it would make him all but unbeatable- even factoring in his chin is not grade A like McCalls, or Vitali's. Wilder's punch resistance is better than I believed it to be after he survived the onslaught from Ortiz. However I think if Joshua gets to him first, he will be knocked out, as Joshua hits harder than Ortiz.

Suckit

walshb wrote: »

Can we arrange the poll so we see how people have voted?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=30219

walshb

Wilder Points

nacho libre wrote: »

I think we can agree on this point, Fury is not a power puncher, if he was given his natural skill, for me it would make him all but unbeatable- even factoring in his chin is not grade A like McCalls, or Vitali's. Wilder's punch resistance is better than I believed it to be after he survived the onslaught from Ortiz. However I think if Joshua gets to him first, he will be knocked out, as Joshua hits harder than Ortiz.

Jaysus, you take your time getting back...

I remember thinking and making the point that Ortiz’s punching and follow ups weren’t great, yet Wilder seemed almost done for. That fight was more a sign of vulnerability as opposed to durability...

And, as you say, AJ a better puncher. For me, in both terms of power and execution and finishing...

Wilder’s only chance v AJ is that KO...and that’s the danger. It is a real danger. It either happens or it doesn’t.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Wilder’s only chance v AJ is that KO...and that’s the danger. It is a real danger. It either happens or it doesn’t.

Favourable cards aside, thats the same story for Wilder against any world level heavyweight to be fair.

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Favourable cards aside, thats the same story for Wilder against any world level heavyweight to be fair.

Only went distance once and clearly won....

Then the draw from last week full distance...

Point: I think vs AJ we will see a clear gap between them should the fight go on and on through the rds....AJ clearly superior to Wilder...