Deontay Wilder v Tyson Fury - December 1st

walshb

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

way to misread what i posted

stay classy

You said he beat Wlad more comprehensively.

I am waiting for the evidence and video here...

My views on the fight are well known.Terrible fight, and for me BOTH men were terrible....Fury fanboys seem to think it was some Fury masterclass and that he dominated Wlad.....

Well, if landing punches are what we need to consider, then neither man came remotely close to dominating the other. And compubox button presses doesn't change that.

Nothing to do with class.......

Chill on the sensitivity....if you can't discuss and debate without getting all stroppy then maybe the forum is not for you?

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

You said he beat Wlad more comprehensively.

I am waiting for the evidence and video here...

My views on the fight are well known.Terrible fight, and for me BOTH men were terrible....Fury fanboys seem to think it was some Fury masterclass and that he dominated Wlad.....

Well, if landing punches are what we need to consider, then neither man came remotely close to dominating the other. And compubox button presses doesn't change that.

Nothing to do with class.......

Chill on the sensitivity....if you can't discuss and debate without getting all stroppy then maybe the forum is not for you?

You are a gas man, chill on the sensitivity, stroppy ? are you a teenage girl in disguise?

Grow up will ya

why do you need me to prove fury dominated vlad when its there for all to see, he had a point deducted and still beat him unanimously on points in his own back yard, as the poster above said the only boxer to out point him ever.

i dont need to add anything to that,

im just waiting for you to use the phrase hugger again, thats always a highlight

walshb

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

he had a point deducted and still beat him unanimously on points in his own back yard, as the poster above said the only boxer to out point him ever.

Thanks for the evidence here.....

I see your angle clearer now...

Try_harder

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

You said he beat Wlad more comprehensively.

I am waiting for the evidence and video here...

My views on the fight are well known.Terrible fight, and for me BOTH men were terrible....Fury fanboys seem to think it was some Fury masterclass and that he dominated Wlad.....

Well, if landing punches are what we need to consider, then neither man came remotely close to dominating the other. And compubox button presses doesn't change that.

Nothing to do with class.......

Chill on the sensitivity....if you can't discuss and debate without getting all stroppy then maybe the forum is not for you?

Agreed

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Thanks for the evidence here.....

I see your angle clearer now...

Lads its ok to have opposite views,

Its what makes boxing and sport as a whole great, there is no right and wrong really when judging things, its all about what style you prefer and how what aspects of the games you find more interesting ,

Walsh B myself and yourself have had different views in the past but I still always enjoy hearing them and understand not everyone will think like me and I'm also not always right , its what makes it a good place for discussion,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Lads its ok to have opposite views,

Its what makes boxing and sport as a whole great, there is no right and wrong really when judging things, its all about what style you prefer and how what aspects of the games you find more interesting ,

Walsh B myself and yourself have had different views in the past but I still always enjoy hearing them and understand not everyone will think like me and I'm also not always right , its what makes it a good place for discussion,

Indeed, and we agree on almost as much as we disagree on....:)

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

Indeed, and we agree on almost as much as we disagree on....:)

Well that's its styles of fighters and actually fights will always split opinion and always will ,

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Don't get a good fight and an exciting fight mixed up ,

,

I am not

Honestly: The display of "boxing" put on by Wlad and Fury was terrible......

It was technically terrible, visually terrible and spectatorly' terrible

Separate; I think far too many people seem to get caught up in fights where, for example defense and all that seems to get way too praised....

I expect boxing and I expect punching and landing......that is D main aim of the game....

All the other areas are needed, but there needs to be effective offense with substance...

In the Wlad fight, Fury seemed to get the Mayweather treatment, where all the praise was heaped on him for not getting hit too much, with next to no praise for the opponent, who also was not getting hit too much.....

And no real focus or criticism for the poor offensive displays and outputs from both fighters.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

I am not

Honestly: The display of "boxing" put on by Wlad and Fury was terrible......

It was technically terrible, visually terrible and spectatorly' terrible

Separate; I think far too many people seem to get caught up in fights where, for example defense and all that seems to get way too praised....

I expect boxing and I expect punching and landing......that is D main aim of the game....

All the other areas are needed, but there needs to be effective offense with substance...

In the Wlad fight, Fury seemed to get the Mayweasther treatment, where all the praise was heaped ion him for not getting hit too much, with next to no praise for the opponent, who also was not getting hit too much.....

And no real focus or criticism for the poor offensive displays and outputs from both fighters.

What impressed me was the fact he went out and found a way to beat Wlad on the cards he didn't have the power to stop him and no one had ever done that,

Fury's challenge was to find a way to beat the unbeatable at the time and he done it,

Anyone else who came and tried to box either got out boxed or ko'd , So find Fury find a way within the rule set to win was very impressive,

It was up to Wlad to do something when he realised he was losing them belts and he couldn't

Fury did exactly what he had to and he won quite comfortably in the end

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

I am not

Honestly: The display of "boxing" put on by Wlad and Fury was terrible......

It was technically terrible, visually terrible and spectatorly' terrible

Separate; I think far too many people seem to get caught up in fights where, for example defense and all that seems to get way too praised....

I expect boxing and I expect punching and landing......that is D main aim of the game....

All the other areas are needed, but there needs to be effective offense with substance...

In the Wlad fight, Fury seemed to get the Mayweasther treatment, where all the praise was heaped ion him for not getting hit too much, with next to no praise for the opponent, who also was not getting hit too much.....

And no real focus or criticism for the poor offensive displays and outputs from both fighters.

if anything mayweather doesnt / didnt get enough praise

walshb

Wilder Points

Cyrus wrote: »

if anything mayweather doesnt / didnt get enough praise

You need to watch Sky's last 6 or so, maybe more fights and get back to me

Failing that, go listen to Colonel Bob Sheridan on his commentary.....

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

"Comprehensive punches" lol!

Fury was in total control against Wlad and won comfortably on the scorecards, in Germany. Something nobody has ever done against Wlad. It was a fantastic display, and i think a lot of people have come to see that in light of the Wilder fight.

Why should a 6ft9 man gas out throwing punches when he's comfortably winning the rounds? The onus was on Wlad to up to ante, not Fury. He fought a very smart fight. Not a fight for repeat viewings, but a terrific performance.

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

"Comprehensive punches" lol!

So what, he out-hugged him, out-wrestled him? You do know this is boxing, right? Using your fists to punch?

Yeh, some display alright....

AJ stopped Wlad and hurt him several times throughout the fight.....

Wlad-Fury was a terrible fight and a terrible display of fighting/boxing from both...

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

So what, he out-hugged him, out-wrestled him? You do know this is boxing, right? Using your fists to punch?

Yeh, some display alright....

AJ stopped Wlad and hurt him several times throughout the fight.....

Wlad-Fury was a terrible fight and a terrible display of fighting/boxing from both...

Sure, if you reduce boxing to just 'using your fists to punch' it was terrible. Maybe you're more of a punching fan than a boxing fan?

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Sure, if you reduce boxing to just 'using your fists to punch' it was terrible. Maybe you're more of a punching fan than a boxing fan?

I am well aware that boxing is not ALL punching. I said this....

I disagree that Fury "comprehensively" beat Wlad. Comprehensively to me means a real clear win, where the man actually lands visible and clean and correct punches in a consistent fashion

Scorecards don't always tell the whole story...

I mean, what were they awarding the rds for in the fight? Because it looked to me that it couldn't be clean and effective scoring punches...

I guess it boils down to what we see and expect from elite HW boxers....

What we got with Wlad and Fury was not my idea of elite....

Too Tough To Die

Fury Points

walshb wrote: »

I am well aware that boxing is not ALL punching. I said this....

I disagree that Fury "comprehensively" beat Wlad. Comprehensively to me means a real clear win, where the man actually lands visible and clean and correct punches in a consistent fashion

Scorecards don't always tell the whole story...

I mean, what were they awarding the rds for in the fight? Because it looked to me that it couldn't be clean and effective scoring punches...

I guess it boils down to what we see and expect from elite HW boxers....

What we got with Wlad and Fury was not my idea of elite....

You claim that you understand that boxing is not ALL punching but then immediately try to reduce the contest to who landed the most 'visible and clean and correct punches in a consistent fashion'. Might as well do away with judges and let compubox decide who wins these fights.

Fury used his 'boxing' to make Wlad look clueless in there. Wlad was reluctant to throw and when he did Fury punished him for it, furthering Wlad's reluctance to throw. He was comfortably bagging rounds with the minimum of fuss.

Scorecards don't always tell the whole story, sure. But you're literally the only person i've ever heard dispute those cards.

walshb

Wilder Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You claim that you understand that boxing is not ALL punching but then immediately try to reduce the contest to who landed the most 'visible and clean and correct punches in a consistent fashion'. Might as well do away with judges and let compubox decide who wins these fights.

Fury used his 'boxing' to make Wlad look clueless in there. Wlad was reluctant to throw and when he did Fury punished him for it, furthering Wlad's reluctance to throw. He was comfortably bagging rounds with the minimum of fuss.

Scorecards don't always tell the whole story, sure. But you're literally the only person i've ever heard dispute those cards.

So, only Wlad looked clueless, huh? Why did Fury not look clueless? Was his spoiling and holding and hugging and non landing of clean punches more impressive than Wlad's

See, this is where so many seem to not want to judge and assess these things equally and fairly

Sorry, where did I dispute the cards? I said cards don't always tell the full story of a fight...

I never said I thought Wlad won...

I didn't reduce the bout to: "reduce the contest to who landed the most 'visible and clean and correct punches."

I asked what were the rds being awarded for, exactly?

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

So, only Wlad looked clueless, huh? Why did Fury not look clueless? Was his spoiling and holding and hugging and non landing of clean punches more impressive than Wlad's

See, this is where so many seem to not want to judge and assess these things equally and fairly

Sorry, where did I dispute the cards? I said cards don't always tell the full story of a fight...

I never said I thought Wlad won...

I didn't reduce the bout to: "reduce the contest to who landed the most 'visible and clean and correct punches."

I asked what were the rds being awarded for, exactly?

Fury beat a man unbeaten in ten years who'd never been beating on the cards before .
How could he possible look clueless ?

Maybe everyone who tried to outbox Wlad in the decade before Fury that tried the same approach as previous guy where clueless ?

The sign of crazy person is doing the same thing and expecting different results, Fury had a different approach and it worked,

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

So, only Wlad looked clueless, huh?

yes, the man losing all his belts on his own turf who was utterly bamboozled by his opponent looked clueless

walshb

Wilder Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Fury beat a man unbeaten in ten years who'd never been beating on the cards before .
How could he possible look clueless ?

Maybe everyone who tried to outbox Wlad in the decade before Fury that tried the same approach as previous guy where clueless ?

The sign of crazy person is doing the same thing and expecting different results, Fury had a different approach and it worked,

I asked why only Wlad looked clueless. I never said Fury looked clueless. It's people labeling one fighter clueless and not a mention as regards the other, in a fight where to me it is CLEAR that both were very poor....

Other descriptions similar: Wlad couldn't lay a glove on Fury. But never Fury couldn't lay a glove on Wlad......

See where I am going?

So many are not critiquing both fighters here....

Hence why it reminds me of the Mayweather effect....his getting all the praise for doing stuff that other fighters can do, but who don't get that credit when fighting Mayweather...

The Manny fight.......Mayweather getting heaps of praise for avoiding Manny's punches, but never hearing any praise for the many times Manny avoided Mayweather's punches...

And then trying to claim with such certainty how Fury's win over Wlad was so clearly more comprehensive than AJs....utter horsesh1t.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

Fury was the one who dictated that fight. He disarmed the most dangerous puncher in the sport at the time. Made him unable to pull the trigger. Nothing clueless about that. It's just effective.

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

I asked why only Wlad looked clueless. I never said Fury looked clueless. It's people labeling one fighter clueless and not a mention as regards the other, in a fight wee to me it is CLEAR that both were very poor....

Other descriptions similar: Wlad couldn't lay a glove on Fury. But never Fury couldn't lay a glove on Wlad......

See where I am going?

So many are not critiquing both fighters here....

Hence why it reminds me of the Mayweather effect....his getting all the praise for doing stuff that other fighters can do, but who don't get that credit when fighting Mayweather...

The Manny fight.......Mayweather getting heaps of praise for avoiding Manny's punches, but never hearing any praise for the many times Manny avoided Mayweather's punches...

And then trying to claim with such certainty how Fury's win over Wlad was so clearly more comprehensive than AJs....utter horsesh1t.

But we can all agree that plan to make the fight like that was Fury's .

Fury fought to his game plan,

As ugly as it may have been it was his plan, so he wasn't clueless ,He went out and done what he wanted to do ,
Wlad was totally clueless and had no way to respond to what was happing ,

You mention Mayweather and Manny,
Manny couldn't win fighting on Floyds terms,

Again it may not have been pretty but Floyd dictated how they fought he was happy to fight that way, As there was no way ,many would beat him in that kind of fight,

It was up to Manny to find a way to change the fight into one that would suit him and like Wlad he could not find an answer ,

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Fury was the one who dictated that fight. He disarmed the most dangerous puncher in the sport at the time. Made him unable to pull the trigger. Nothing clueless about that. It's just effective.

Again, nobody said Fury was clueless........

Labeling Wlad clueless alone is the issue I queried...

I don't think I am alone is thinking that both were very poor.....

Label them clueless, inept, ineffective, weak, cumbersome, awkward or whatever other adjective.

But if labeling here, I think both deserve very very similar labels..

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

Again, nobody said Fury was clueless........

Labeling Wlad clueless alone is the issue I queried...

I don't think I am alone is thinking that both were very poor.....

Label them clueless, inept, ineffective, weak, cumbersome, awkward or whatever other adjective.

But if labeling here, I think both deserve very very similar labels..

one was the reigning long time champion fighting on his home turf, the other was the challenger who was a heavy under dog,

one dictated the terms of the fight and one didn't

surely you can see why one is praised where the other is criticised.

Morrison J

Wilder Points

walshb wrote: »

Again, nobody said Fury was clueless........

Labeling Wlad clueless alone is the issue I queried...

I don't think I am alone is thinking that both were very poor.....

Label them clueless, inept, ineffective, weak, cumbersome, awkward or whatever other adjective.

But if labeling here, I think both deserve very very similar labels..

Wlad was clueless though? If he wasn't clueless he'd have been able to dictate terms and execute some resemblance of a gameplan. He couldn't though because Fury fought the perfect fight to nullify him.

You're the only one I've ever heard say Fury fought a bad fight to be honest.

And you definitely can't label Fury as 'ineffective' that night. Literally the complete opposite. One of the most effective performances you'll ever see.

Cyrus

Morrison J wrote: »

One of the most effective performances you'll ever see.

yourdeadwright

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Wlad was clueless though? If he wasn't clueless he'd have been able to dictate terms and execute some resemblance of a gameplan. He couldn't though because Fury fought the perfect fight to nullify him.

You're the only one I've ever heard say Fury fought a bad fight to be honest.

And you definitely can't label Fury as 'ineffective' that night. Literally the complete opposite. One of the most effective performances you'll ever see.

I 100% agree with the above, it may have been ugly to watch but it was sheer brilliance, to come up with that plan and make it work ,

It was clear he totally caught Wlad by surprise he didn't have clue how to stop what Fury was doing ,

I love boxing for fights like that, Fury won within the rule set in a way not many fighters would even think of ,

As the saying goes there is more than one way to skin a cat ,

walshb

Wilder Points

Morrison J wrote: »

You're the only one I've ever heard say Fury fought a bad fight to be honest.

When did I say this?

Fury got the win on the cards.....

That's the main thing for him...

I happened to think the display from both in the fight was terrible. Both terrible. Wlad gets overly criticized (in comparison to Fury) for his showing in the fight.

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

When did I say this?

Fury got the win on the cards.....

That's the main thing for him...

I happened to think the display from both in the fight was terrible. Both terrible. Wlad gets overly criticized (in comparison to Fury) for his showing in the fight.

to the victor the spoils, and the praise

wasn't it always thus?

yourdeadwright

Draw

walshb wrote: »

When did I say this?

Fury got the win on the cards.....

That's the main thing for him...

I happened to think the display from both in the fight was terrible. Both terrible. Wlad gets overly criticized (in comparison to Fury) for his showing in the fight.

I think people are trying to say is how can you call Fury terrible,
He fought exactly the fight he wanted to and got the job done that no one has ever got done before,

I agree it wasn't pretty but I think it was a brilliant execution of a game plan he knew would work m