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Shannon Radar down

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    #32
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    that's what I was going to mention .... plenty of overlapping coverage between Mt Gabriel, Shannon and that radar in Mayo.. Even Dublin would cover some of the enroute stuff .. to about Kilkenny if not further south.

    Network failure or Radar Data Processing issue I'd say.

    Edit: didn't see faoiarvok's post, was replying to the previous one


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    #33
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭plodder


    Software doesn't usually just fail randomly like that. It's most likely to fail just after being updated though. If it was truly a random happening, then my money is on some hardware component that has failed.

    Apparently, they still don't know the cause of the problem, reported on radio this morning.

    Also, some interesting details here:

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/chaos-in-the-air-as-radar-fails-873174.html
    One source in ATC told the Irish Examiner staff at Shannon had been “repeatedly told” that the system “could never fail”.

    “We were told this could never happen,” the source said.
    Naive to make a claim like that, and to believe it. I don't know how new the system is, because new systems would be more vulnerable to software failures as well.

    More info in this RTE report which suggests the system is new and "frequently updated". In that case, it is likely that the cause is an inadequately tested software update. One wonders why is it being updated so regularly?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1003/1000587-irish-air-space/


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    #34
    faoiarvok
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭faoiarvok


    plodder wrote: »
    Apparently, they still don't know the cause of the problem, reported on radio this morning.

    What station/programme?


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    #35
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭plodder


    faoiarvok wrote: »
    What station/programme?
    Morning Ireland. (RTE 1)


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    #36
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭plodder


    Updated statement from the IAA

    https://www.iaa.ie/news/2018/10/04/irish-aviation-authority-update-on-technical-issue-11-30---04-october

    I see the backup system is a replica of the primary system. I hope it's not running identical software though. Or at least, they wait a considerable time before updating the backup after updating the primary..


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    #37
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭Tow


    That are the odds it was a Microsoft Windows Update...

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #38
    faoiarvok
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭faoiarvok


    Tow wrote: »
    That are the odds it was a Microsoft Windows Update...

    The system doesn't run on Windows.


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    #39
    ShRT
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭ShRT


    plodder wrote: »
    Updated statement from the IAA

    https://www.iaa.ie/news/2018/10/04/irish-aviation-authority-update-on-technical-issue-11-30---04-october

    I see the backup system is a replica of the primary system. I hope it's not running identical software though. Or at least, they wait a considerable time before updating the backup after updating the primary..

    They are actually running a newer version of the software.

    They have other redundancy systems if the normal backups fail and that's what they went to initially when live and main backup went down.


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    #40
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭plodder


    ShRT wrote: »
    They are actually running a newer version of the software.

    They have other redundancy systems if the normal backups fail and that's what they went to initially when live and main backup went down.
    Ouch. If that was the case, it's easier to understand why airspace was shutdown for a number of hours.


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    #41
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    Tow wrote: »
    That are the odds it was a Microsoft Windows Update...

    And what do you base that on?


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    #42
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    patch Tuesday is next week :-D

    the report doesn't specifty which system... ARTAS ? FPDS? both?


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    #43
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭plodder


    arccosh wrote: »
    patch Tuesday is next week :-D
    shudder..

    whatever platform it's built on (eg Linux, IBM etc), it's very unlikely that operating system updates are just installed directly from the internet :pac:

    I was reading a bit about COOPANS which is the same system used in five different countries including Ireland. They say the same build is used across all centres, but I guess they don't update them all at the same time. Does Shannon get it first maybe?


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    #44
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    judging by the timing, I'm going to guess it wasn't an update, as they are usually done after midnight ... or if it was, it was a bug introduced from the previous night.


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    #45
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭Tow


    Aiyana Obnoxious Cookbook wrote: »
    And what do you base that on?

    I believe CAIRDE 2000 is Linux based, but it is basically a computer network with many different interconnected systems. They don't know the cause (or claim not to), but it would be a typical failure if the likes of a Windows based DHCP Server decided to load a large update, and another critical component decided to renew it's lease during the same period. This is just speculation, it fits the symptoms of the published information.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #46
    notharrypotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    Tow wrote: »
    CAIRDE 2000
    That's a blast from the past.


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    #47
    faoiarvok
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭faoiarvok


    Tow wrote: »
    I believe CAIRDE 2000 is Linux based, but it is basically a computer network with many different interconnected systems. They don't know the cause (or claim not to), but it would be a typical failure if the likes of a Windows based DHCP Server decided to load a large update, and another critical component decided to renew it's lease during the same period. This is just speculation, it fits the symptoms of the published information.

    COOPANS is the system in use, and the IAA statement above confirms the issue has been identified.


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    #48
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    Tow wrote: »
    but it would be a typical failure if the likes of a Windows based DHCP Server decided to load a large update, and another critical component decided to renew it's lease during the same period.

    You have no idea how DHCP works if you think that'l a plausible explanation.
    Tow wrote: »
    This is just speculation,

    Ah, now I understand... :rolleyes:
    Tow wrote: »
    it fits the symptoms of the published information.

    No it doesn't.


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    #49
    Keplar240B
    Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    Any update on root cause of this incident?


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