Leo says "Immigrants 'more likely' to work and pay tax than average Irish person"

JohnMc1

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....



Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

Now where have I heard that before? Oh yeah. The Democrats. They love saying stuff like that ["They'll do the jobs Americans don't want to do", "They'll pay our pensions." "They'll boost our economy" Stop me if you've heard enough] to justify their open borders narrative to the point where they clearly can't hide their disdain for the native population.

sabat

Is the waiting list for public housing/"declared homeless" in Dublin not 50% comprised of immigrants? That alone indicates that foreigners are far more likely to be in need of social housing than natives.

The government has no handle on the number of people actually living here-the official CSO figures state about 10,000 Chinese-even a mildly observant person could guess that it's way higher in reality. How many people got through via the Dublin Airport scam and whatever other routes and are now undocumented?

How many immigrants are using other peoples' PPS numbers for their 2nd jobs?

What is the rate of foreign owned businesses and tradesmen who rack up huge unpaid taxes and bills before absconding?

Fiery mutant

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I love the way anything wrong with society is everyone's fault but government.

Housing is the LA's, Health is the unions, not doing well? you must be Irish and looking for a forever home, something for nothing.
Anyone on welfare or the homeless list is conning the system. Get to f***

Fine Gael are the Tories of the 1980's.

Actually it seems to be the other way around.
Can't pay yr mortgage? Governments fault.
No home because you won't pay yr rent? Governments fault.
Can't get a house close to mammy? Governments fault.
Every day you read stories about some other bull**** going on, that once again ppl want the government to sort.
Even today, 10,000 ppl march for housing 'equality'. Seriously?

When the rest of us are workin, the foreva home brigade want 'equality' by getting a free home.

Pull the fukin other one.

professore

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....



Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

Do you work in the public sector? Because that's the only area of the economy where there are virtually no immigrants.

James Brown

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Actually it seems to be the other way around.
Can't pay yr mortgage? Governments fault.
No home because you won't pay yr rent? Governments fault.
Can't get a house close to mammy? Governments fault.
Every day you read stories about some other bull**** going on, that once again ppl want the government to sort.
Even today, 10,000 ppl march for housing 'equality'. Seriously?

When the rest of us are workin, the foreva home brigade want 'equality' by getting a free home.

Pull the fukin other one.

You're agreeing with me. FG and their supporters think it's everyone but them..

NAMA selling properties at a loss only to have the minister for housing and local authorities buy them back off the same vulture fund... Gremlins?
80 of the top wealthiest in the country paid less tax than the average industrial waged worker... Communists?
The state is buying houses to give as cheap rentals rather than building. They are putting families up in the Gresham because they won't build.
They are paying rents fully or partially to private landlords because they won't build...the Legion of Mary?

All of the above drives working tax payers out of the housing market and needing aid from the tax payer/state.

No such thing as a free home. Here's your choice:
Build social and affordable housing to rent or sell at a profit, but a reasonable rate based on income OR look to private landlords, Noonan's Cerberus and buying off the market to house the exact same people?

Using the dole scrounger of the month story from the SINDO is a con. We are housing these people. The choice is in a hotel, private rental or a house bought from the market....or we build social and affordable housing.

The housing crisis is effecting tax payers. It's bollocks that on the one hand we've low unemployment, pat on the back but everyone in the throws of the housing crisis is some form of unemployed sponger. Cop yourself on.
The government have made things worse. If they just stopped f***ing around we'd be better off.

Find things tight, despite working hard? Well stop whinging, get up earlier of a morning and get a better job...not so straightforward is it?

Fiery mutant

Actually it is straightforward. When I looked to buy a house, I looked at what I could afford, and travelled to buy it.

I didn't whinge that I'd have to move over an hour from mammy where I wouldn't know anyone. I just fukin did it, and worked through it.

And when I wanted better paying job, I worked harder, and got up earlier, and found solutions to the problems, so that I could live more comfortably and give my family a better life.

Too many people don't want to put in the effort these days.

McMurphy

professore wrote: »

Do you work in the public sector? Because that's the only area of the economy where there are virtually no immigrants.

No unfortunately I'm private sector - self employed actually, and I didn't say they're virtually non existent within my industry, I said prob 1 in 20, which would be 5%.

Let me also point out, I have no problem whatsoever with immigrants, none. They form a vital part of our workforce, and often don't attract the appreciation and praise they deserve.

Kivaro

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Actually it is straightforward. When I looked to buy a house, I looked at what I could afford, and travelled to buy it.

I didn't whinge that I'd have to move over an hour from mammy where I wouldn't know anyone. I just fukin did it, and worked through it.

And when I wanted better paying job, I worked harder, and got up earlier, and found solutions to the problems, so that I could live more comfortably and give my family a better life.

Too many people don't want to put in the effort these days.

Why would they?
Especially when they are housed for life in a forever home, given free healthcare, given free travel, given numerous "allowances", cash payments for life every week.
These "entitlements" make Ireland a social welfare mecca to the whole world.
If you can pull in more money by just having children and not working than by working, then there is something seriously wrong with the country.

Podge_irl

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I feel this is not poorly worded on Leo's part but a carefully crafted step towards creating an Ireland Leo likes the look of, one where we don't discriminate on race or colour but judge people on their capacity to earn money irrespective of circumstance. One where it's ok to sow seeds of division as long as those on the receiving end of any prejudice are those down on their luck, have lost a job, are forced into being carers, are a single parent unable to afford creche and therefore work, are homeless because they can't pay a mortgage, are disabled, are off sick because they are waiting for operation in 3 years time or can't avail of mental health services.

Did you even bother looking at the context in which he said it?

Mr. teddywinkles

mfceiling wrote: »

Don't want to do the work or don't get the opportunity?
A lot of the "immigrant" workers are being taken advantage of and are easier to bully into poor working conditions and low pay.
I know in construction the foreign lads are told they have to work 12 hour days and will be expected to work most weekends. Some of them have very poor English and are afraid to rock the boat as they know it will be very difficult to find other work.

Employers taking advantage of immigrant workers. Well I never. Come on ya Irish bums get in there work harder. Why didn't he come out and praise Irish working people doing the daily grind and long hours. Commuting long distances every day just to have a job.

uck51js9zml2yt

Heard a talk in work on the new "not a national ID"card.
Social welfare are reporting that there are more Irish being detected defrauding the state than non Irish.

Mr. teddywinkles

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Actually it seems to be the other way around.
Can't pay yr mortgage? Governments fault.
No home because you won't pay yr rent? Governments fault.
Can't get a house close to mammy? Governments fault.
Every day you read stories about some other bull**** going on, that once again ppl want the government to sort.
Even today, 10,000 ppl march for housing 'equality'. Seriously?

When the rest of us are workin, the foreva home brigade want 'equality' by getting a free home.

Pull the fukin other one.

And of course they are all Irish. Proven fact?

tonycascarino

A man (Leo Varadkar) whose own father is an immigrant is hardly going to say anything bad about immigrants. I would take what Leo says with a pinch of salt.

antietam1

Obviously I don't know every foreign worker, but I do know quite a few who have never worked.
Others who although highly skilled/qualified. only work part time so as to be eligible for rent allowance and other benefits.

Grayson

Statistically immigrants are younger and move for work. The whole idea of immigrants moving to claim benefits is a fallacy.

Because they're younger and move for work it means that they take less out of the exchequer. They don't get as sick and they don't claim as much. It means that the average immigrant, because of the average lower age etc... is a greater contributer than the average native person. that's the same for nearly every country in the world.

Now that doesn't include refugees. Refugees tend to be a net loss for the first few years as they adjust, learn languages etc. Plus they didn't want to move in the first place. So the figures for them are different.

However for economic migrants, the figures clearly show that they are net contributers.

gw80

Isaiah Crashing Mice wrote: »

Heard a talk in work on the new "not a national ID"card.
Social welfare are reporting that there are more Irish being detected defrauding the state than non Irish.

You will have to clarify that statement a bit,
Of coarse the will be more irish defrauding the state, funnily enough there are more Irish here than non Irish,
And what does detected mean, does that mean non Irish are better at it than the Irish, or that the Irish may be easier to detect?
That statement is not very forth comming on detail to take anything from it.

brightspark

I have been in a large number of food processing factories in the last few years. The majority are non-nationals, many aren't even EU citizens

cajonlardo

This isn't the first or tenth time he's got hysterical about his perceived Dole scroungers . So why hasn't he put an end to it? How many social welfare inspectors have been disiplined for failing to identify fraudsters? Where's the court reports of the thousands of convictions?


People in this country are either committing wholesale fraud or they are not.

If they are, you and your government are paid rather highly to deal with it.

Nope, just another comment calculated to divide society
If these type of threads are a reliable indication then he's on a winner. Posters pointing fingers everywhere except at the few hundred greed driven people and their puppet politicians who sank this country

Franz Von Peppercorn

antietam1 wrote: »

Obviously I don't know every foreign worker, but I do know quite a few who have never worked.
Others who although highly skilled/qualified. only work part time so as to be eligible for rent allowance and other benefits.

Hmm. It’s well within the rules of the EU to stop that. The former anyway. The latter just makes economic sense to some people.

Ash.J.Williams

Has this thread been debunked?

screamer

The side that Leo is not talking about is the fact that although paying taxes, migrants send their money home and out of the Irish economy more.... So it's swings and roundabouts

McMurphy

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Has this thread been debunked?

I don't think so.

Leo has come out declaring that immigrants are more likely to be working and paying taxes than the average Irish person.

I would say that Irish people make up the vast majority of the Irish workforce, not immigrants.

It does not require a Venn diagram to show how Leo was talking from his hoop..

Podge_irl

cajonlardo wrote: »

This isn't the first or tenth time he's got hysterical about his perceived Dole scroungers . So why hasn't he put an end to it? How many social welfare inspectors have been disiplined for failing to identify fraudsters? Where's the court reports of the thousands of convictions?

Podge_irl wrote: »

Did you even bother looking at the context in which he said it?

And again...

amcalester

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I don't think so.

Leo has come out declaring that immigrants are more likely to be working and paying taxes than the average Irish person.

I would say that Irish people make up the vast majority of the Irish workforce, not immigrants.

It does not require a Venn diagram to show how Leo was talking from his hoop..

More likely != more than.

Of course Irish people make up the majority of the workforce, to say otherwise would be stupid.

Are you purposely misrepresentating what Leo actually said in the link you provided?

Podge_irl

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I don't think so.

Leo has come out declaring that immigrants are more likely to be working and paying taxes than the average Irish person.

I would say that Irish people make up the vast majority of the Irish workforce, not immigrants.

It does not require a Venn diagram to show how Leo was talking from his hoop..

Doesn't require a Venn diagram to show that you don't understand the phrase "more likely". Partly cause a Venn diagram is irrelevant to such a question and partly cause its painfully obvious.

amcalester

Podge_irl wrote: »

Doesn't require a Venn diagram to show that you don't understand the phrase "more likely". Partly cause a Venn diagram is irrelevant to such a question and partly cause its painfully obvious.

It’s almost like JD has an agenda.

Turbohymac

I would agree with previous posters that the largest contributor to the irish tax system is actually irish workers..but 2 negative issues..how about the large multinational companies that are using this island as a tax haven to launder their vast gains worldwide and in turn hardly paying any tax ..but my main gripe as a taxpayer wouldn't be with any non national working here and paying tax or not ..BUT would be with the long term unemployed fuc..rs who never worked..don't want to work and receive far too many hand outs to ever in a million years consider taking up employment . And it's both the Irish and non national taxpayers who fund these wasters.. long past time for change I know some of these category of people and nobody in their right state of mind could have sympathy for them if only the government and social services actually woke up and did their job efficiently..oh and with all our money set taxpayer. Com

Colonel Claptrap

cajonlardo wrote: »

This isn't the first or tenth time he's got hysterical about his perceived Dole scroungers . So why hasn't he put an end to it? How many social welfare inspectors have been disiplined for failing to identify fraudsters? Where's the court reports of the thousands of convictions?


People in this country are either committing wholesale fraud or they are not.

If they are, you and your government are paid rather highly to deal with it.

Nope, just another comment calculated to divide society
If these type of threads are a reliable indication then he's on a winner. Posters pointing fingers everywhere except at the few hundred greed driven people and their puppet politicians who sank this country

He defends a class of people who are falsely stereotyped as 'only here for the benefits' by pointing out that the vast majority are in the labour force - yet somehow, bizarrely, you view this as a dig at welfare recipients??

Who appears more "hysterical" - him or you?

I don't think this thread worked out quite how OP was hoping. The faux outrage was intended as a dig at the Taoiseach but it backfired spectacularly.

Thankfully the majority of irish people view our immigrant co-workers, neighbours, doctors, nurses, abattoir operatives, baristas, friends, spouses and family as positive contributors to Irish society.

The facts speak for themselves. We are a diverse nation with people of many nationalities living AND working here. Most migrants work. Proportionally less Irish people work. That's simply demographics: migrants tend to be young, skilled and educated. OAPs do not emigrate to Ireland. Workers do.

If people can't see that (or choose not to) I suggest they get out more often.

Grayson

amcalester wrote: »

More likely != more than.

Of course Irish people make up the majority of the workforce, to say otherwise would be stupid.

Are you purposely misrepresentating what Leo actually said in the link you provided?

they either don't understand basic language or they are deliberately misrepresenting what is said.

McMurphy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Doesn't require a Venn diagram to show that you don't understand the phrase "more likely". Partly cause a Venn diagram is irrelevant to such a question and partly cause its painfully obvious.

I understand quite well, let's look at it from another perspective so.

Would you agree that the average Irish person is less likely to be working and paying taxes into the system than an immigrant?

Do you understand the definition of average?

Corb_lund

Diversity is our strength. Keep repeating it lads.

1/6 births are non nationals? That's really going to go well in the future, worked nicely for other parts of Europe, London definitely isn't a abscess...noooo

Ridiculous carry on again from Leo, then again we do all love a good circle jerk here, so let's feel pleased at our progress and bury the issue...

noodler

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I would say that he worded it badly. Very badly indeed.

The average Irish person is working and paying taxes.

It's very reminiscent of an Endaism gaffe.

You really don't understand statistics and averages do you?

JohnnyFlash

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I understand quite well, let's look at it from another perspective so.

Would you agree that the average Irish person is less likely to be working and paying taxes into the system than an immigrant?

Do you understand the definition of average?

Splitting hairs. To be honest I think you obsess more about FG than Leo himself does. And it was Enda before that. You need to chill a bit I think. You’ll have a vote the same as us in the next election.

Jimmy.

Johnny is gone to the dogs.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

He defends a class of people who are falsely stereotyped as 'only here for the benefits' by pointing out that the vast majority are in the labour force - yet somehow, bizarrely, you view this as a dig at welfare recipients??

Who appears more "hysterical" - him or you?

I don't think this thread worked out quite how OP was hoping. The faux outrage was intended as a dig at the Taoiseach but it backfired spectacularly.

Thankfully the majority of irish people view our immigrant co-workers, neighbours, doctors, nurses, abattoir operatives, baristas, friends, spouses and family as positive contributors to Irish society.

The facts speak for themselves. We are a diverse nation with people of many nationalities living AND working here. Most migrants work. Proportionally less Irish people work. That's simply demographics: migrants tend to be young, skilled and educated. OAPs do not emigrate to Ireland. Workers do.

If people can't see that (or choose not to) I suggest they get out more often.

I think the reason that Irish people are more welcoming than most countries to immigrants is precisely because we can see them working all around us (and a friendly bunch by and large too) and the obvious tracksuit brigade are clearly Irish. 50% of residents in north central Dublin where I work are foreign, I see none of them slouching around zombie like during the day however shouting at the clouds.

Wheeliebin30

Poor Johnny shown up again for anything anti gubberment.

Bless.

jay0109

A crass but not unexpected statement from the leader of this country. Backed up with no stats of course.
But if you say something good about immigrants, your on to a winner in Ireland with the media falling over themselves to print what you said.

Fingal CC stopped releasing housing list stats when the focus came on the fact that 50% of it was made up of non-nationals.
Africans have a very low labour force participation rate here, second only to another favourite of the Irish media, Travellers.

Was Leo overlooking issues like that or was he just talking out his posterior as usual, looking for a nice headline in the papers? I think we know the answer to that from Leo's style of governing.

Podge_irl

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Would you agree that the average Irish person is less likely to be working and paying taxes into the system than an immigrant?

That would be the corollary of the original statement, yes. What is your point?

jay0109 wrote: »

A crass but not unexpected statement from the leader of this country. Backed up with no stats of course.

You mean apart from the stats that have already been linked here that you didn't bother reading?

antietam1

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Hmm. It’s well within the rules of the EU to stop that. The former anyway. The latter just makes economic sense to some people.

One guy broke a leg in his first few weeks in the country has been here and allegedly unfit for work ever since.
House and board paid for.
Doesn't even bother to fake a limp.

jay0109

Podge_irl wrote: »

You mean apart from the stats that have already been linked here that you didn't bother reading?

I read them and what?
I pointed out in my post above some info too...widely available to anyone who bothers be informed on this subject and available to the uninformed via google.

Bad news stats to be ignored and only the good stuff matters? Your from the Leo school of government so

Mr. teddywinkles

screamer wrote: »

The side that Leo is not talking about is the fact that although paying taxes, migrants send their money home and out of the Irish economy more.... So it's swings and roundabouts

Work with lots of them that will do all the hours under the sun for about 3 to 4 years go back to home country and buy their house outright. So it's worth their while. It's all in your perspective of it.doubt they do same hours back home

Podge_irl

jay0109 wrote: »

I read them and what?
I pointed out in my post above some info too...widely available to anyone who bothers be informed on this subject and available to the uninformed via google.

Bad news stats to be ignored and only the good stuff matters? Your from the Leo school of government so

Ok, so you read them and then pretended they didn't exist? Because your statement that it is backed up with no stats is fundamentally incorrect. Your assertions however are the ones that have not yet been backed up by anything (and even if true, do not alter the veracity of the original statement).

Seems a bit bizarre to me to incorrectly lambast someone for something and then promptly actually do that exact thing yourself.

Mr. teddywinkles

Turbohymac wrote: »

I would agree with previous posters that the largest contributor to the irish tax system is actually irish workers..but 2 negative issues..how about the large multinational companies that are using this island as a tax haven to launder their vast gains worldwide and in turn hardly paying any tax ..but my main gripe as a taxpayer wouldn't be with any non national working here and paying tax or not ..BUT would be with the long term unemployed fuc..rs who never worked..don't want to work and receive far too many hand outs to ever in a million years consider taking up employment . And it's both the Irish and non national taxpayers who fund these wasters.. long past time for change I know some of these category of people and nobody in their right state of mind could have sympathy for them if only the government and social services actually woke up and did their job efficiently..oh and with all our money set taxpayer. Com

Well as long as you accept it's not just Irish people that make up the wasters and I'm in agreement with your post. And yes it will be made up by mostly Irish because guess what Ireland is mostly populated by Irish. But to state that every single migrant are here to work is total ****e.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

biko

Duck Soup wrote: »

It's a very Trumpian thing, this immigrants-as-a-drain-on-the-economy malarkey. "I know every fact shows it not to be true, but dagnabit I feel it to be true."

Quite the opposite, the right more often base their arguments on facts and figures.
It's the left that blurts things out and kinda hopes they are true - like in the article where something is claimed with no basis on studies or anything of the sort.
When Leo says "immigrants" he is lumping lots of groups of people together.
This is so we (you) will equate British expats with Syrian refugees and Somali asylum seekers, all as "immigrants".
He is implying that we need these immigrants without whom we would somehow not get jobs done.

Like Swedish journalist Anna Hedenmo once said "without immigrants, who would clean our offices?" not realising that offices got cleaned before mass immigration and will be cleaned once immigrants have left.

antietam1

Jaxxon Unimportant Handshake wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It does seem you are being made to jump through hoops, but are there not people who need a translator on day they become citizens.
I can well believe that is urban myth.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

lalababa

How many people on the Dole more than 3 months? These people probably (extreme generalisation) have decided that they are better off on the Dole. Why is that?
Now if the Dole rate were cut to 50 euros ( I personally could live on this for awhile if I had to) , it would mean they are worse off on the dole, than low paid work.
They would look for jobs.
Let's say 200,000 extra people looking hard for jobs and willing to get 9.15/hr and do hard work/soft work/well paid work/any work.
Where would that leave the employment market in Ireland? Where would that leave
Workers who get paid well enough? With an extra 200,000 people chomping at the bit. How much would the gaurd/nurse/clerk/teacher get paid then, what would their working conditions be like then?
Where would that leave migration out of Ireland?
Look at what's going on in the army atm, they are complaining bout wages and rent, what would happen if they had another 200k people competing for those conditions.
I'm using alot of state wage/jobs as examples but of course these are protected, when I actually mean private sector competition... apologies.

RobertKK

Immigrants contribute more in the Uk:

https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1047768933904867329?s=21

Colonel Claptrap

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Work with lots of them that will do all the hours under the sun for about 3 to 4 years go back to home country and buy their house outright. So it's worth their while. It's all in your perspective of it.doubt they do same hours back home

Also worth noting, in your example they will pay income tax, vat and other taxes in those 3/4 years. Overtime will be charged at the higher rate too in a lot of cases.

I personally know of 3 irish people working in Australia and Dubai, who intend to come home with a wad of cash to buy a house here.