Who is getting out or cutting down on sucklers?

Panch18

Cattlepen wrote: »

Frying pan to fire. After heavy investment over the years I don’t have the drive to invest more in dairying. And like I said, not interested in anymore slavery

Your a smart man, the profit the dairy fellas are making this year is easy spoken about. Plenty fellas losing this year. And let me tell you there’s far too much work in dairy not to be making money

orchard farm

Loads of lads here in leitrim /cavan rent land in roscommon circa 1 and a half hours away 160/acre just for sucklers and sheep.cant understand it tbh

wrangler

orchard farm wrote: »

Loads of lads here in leitrim /cavan rent land in roscommon circa 1 and a half hours away 160/acre just for sucklers and sheep.cant understand it tbh

I had lads phoning from Donegal, two to three hours away

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

I had lads phoning from Donegal, two to three hours away

That's for payments. Sooner they are gone the better. Inflating rates is all they are doing

Muckit

Reggie. wrote: »

That's for payments. Sooner they are gone the better. Inflating rates is all they are doing

Says the man that has none!

Don't bite the hand that feeds you also comes to mind!! A lot of contractor bills will be settled end of the month!!

Reggie.

Muckit wrote: »

Says the man that has none!

Don't bite the hand that feeds you also comes to mind!! A lot of contractor bills will be settled end of the month!!

Can't see the fact I don't get payments has anything to do with anything I'm saying here.

For your info I don't have to wait till end of the month as 99% of my customers pay me as I leave the field thankfully or within days.

Not biting anyone's hand as many if all young farmers in my locality agree with me.

Before ya get on too far on your high horse I'm relating to land payments that are connected to the amount of land you hold. Land here in places are at times rented for about €300 an acre by lads from Donegal. Couldn't figure out why this was the case when the land was idle or barely used for the year. Until I was informed by the auctioneer it's for the purpose of securing payments. They could afford to pay this as they are still making more per acre off the payments.

This makes it very hard to rent in our area as these guys inflate the rental prices with this kind of carry on.

patsy_mccabe

How are they working these payments?

Reggie.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How are they working these payments?

Not going to even try to explain as I have no idea. I'm sure there's people here that know something about payments secured on land you have at a certain reference year. You are held at this number of acres then so these lads are obviously rented land to hold the acres up. In a nutshell thats how it was explained to me

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Not going to even try to explain as I have no idea. I'm sure there's people here that know something about payments secured on land you have at a certain reference year. You are held at this number of acres then so these lads are obviously rented land to hold the acres up. In a nutshell thats how it was explained to me

You're right, the extra demand for land from dairying is pushing these guys out of their own counties.

coolshannagh28

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How are they working these payments?

They are working the (Subsidised) system , own rent or buy high value entitlements and claim them off the land ,maximise GLAS BDGP KT or any other available subsidy and try to get a small margin off the actual ground ,Those Donegal guys are switched on they came through a hard school.

orchard farm

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

They are working the (Subsidised) system , own rent or buy high value entitlements and claim them off the land ,maximise GLAS BDGP KT or any other available subsidy and try to get a small margin off the actual ground ,Those Donegal guys are switched on they came through a hard school.

That's the problem with such an old reference year,farming has very little to do with food production these days

coolshannagh28

orchard farm wrote: »

That's the problem with such an old reference year,farming has very little to do with food production these days

It is what it is ,but remember there were many years to trade up and it is still possible to gain a margin on leased and bought entitlements.

Mac Taylor

Cutting numbers here to the BDGS reference number after increasing numbers the last few years. 10 good cows is better than than 15 bad ones. Quality beats quantity now.

Birdnuts

Gone from 20 sucklers to single figures in the last few years - sign of the times I guess:(

SuperTortoise

I have considered cutting numbers over the last 2 years, calved 25 this year and i'm finding it tough going with a full time job.
Will see how the lay of the land is come brexit and CAP 2020 but i'm not expecting much to be honest.
The industry i'm in is heavily reliant on a strong economy, 2008-2012 was tough going but i was gratefull to be farming in those days as it kept the lights on.

Bullocks

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I have considered cutting numbers over the last 2 years, calved 25 this year and i'm finding it tough going with a full time job.
Will see how the lay of the land is come brexit and CAP 2020 but i'm not expecting much to be honest.
The industry i'm in is heavily reliant on a strong economy, 2008-2012 was tough going but i was gratefull to be farming in those days as it kept the lights on.

I work in the buildings myself , I think if its possible I'll build up the herd a bit while construction is going well and it will give a bit of a cushion to sell when the wage drops again . The downside is when the day job is paying well its harder to dedicate time to the cows . I'll try and get the fencing better for sheep aswell and maybe try a flying herd of ewes for a crop of lambs if the day job dries up at all

Cattlepen

Bullocks wrote: »

I work in the buildings myself , I think if its possible I'll build up the herd a bit while construction is going well and it will give a bit of a cushion to sell when the wage drops again . The downside is when the day job is paying well its harder to dedicate time to the cows . I'll try and get the fencing better for sheep aswell and maybe try a flying herd of ewes for a crop of lambs if the day job dries up at all

Well the best of luck to you whatever way you do it. The only advice I have is don’t put a hump on yer back with work and the ewes are low input if they are worked right

Bullocks

Cattlepen wrote: »

Well the best of luck to you whatever way you do it. The only advice I have is don’t put a hump on yer back with work and the ewes are low input if they are worked right

Thanks , I definitely won't be killing myself with work , I'm getting lazier by the day

Dunedin

One of the biggest things that causes lads to exit/reduce on suckling is the workload. It’s never ending sometimes from calving tagging sculling to weaning not to mention the dangers with the beloved newly calved cow.

Bullocks

Dunedin wrote: »

One of the biggest things that causes lads to exit/reduce on suckling is the workload. It’s never ending sometimes from calving tagging sculling to weaning not to mention the dangers with the beloved newly calved cow.

A tight calving time helps that , nothing worse than catching one or two throughout the year for those jobs . I would be inclined to sell whatever doesn't calf within 6 weeks for convenience

squinn2912

We can’t calve tightly because of facilities so it’s 35 cows over 12 or so weeks and then the few stragglers

orm0nd

running against the thread title but for anybody looking for quality replacements or starting anew

there's a quality herd offered for sale next wednesday at Carnew Mart

http://www.carnewmart.ie/2018/09/wednesday-10th-october-suckler-sale/

Bullocks

orm0nd wrote: »

running against the thread title but for anybody looking for quality replacements or starting anew

there's a quality herd offered for sale next wednesday at Carnew Mart

http://www.carnewmart.ie/2018/09/wednesday-10th-october-suckler-sale/

There is plenty of choice there , I wouldn't mind a chance at the blue bull .

_Brian

Birdnuts wrote: »

Gone from 20 sucklers to single figures in the last few years - sign of the times I guess:(

10 times zero profit is a hell of a lot easier than 20 times zero profit.

Pidae.m

Have cut back an awful lot here in the last year. The hardest to sell we're the first few I felt like I was 16 again breaking up with a girlfriend. But we put down an awful spring lost a good few with every different concotion of a story you could think off. I actually went back the the gym the last few weeks.... And there I was blaming kids for all my fitness woes.

Bass Reeves

Do any fellas actually calculate what it costs for them to keep a suckler cow and calf. Everybody costs are different. Between Grass costs, silage costs, land rental if appropiate, vet, bull etc etc. I think at sucklers lots of lads do not know there costs/cow are. Loads throw out airy fairy figures including opportunity costs and land charges but often have not the ability to get down to the nitty gritty.

I can calculate what any bunch of cattle left me at the end of the year because I know my day to day costs. I know what it costs to make a bale of silage. For instance if I use slurry to replace fertlizer in growing silage i put the fertlizer value of the slurry in at fertlizer cost even though it has a lower cost. If I cut silage I will cost it at contractor cost 2/bale that more or less allows for machinery costs for that Machinery input.

I think too many lads I meet have absolutely no idea of there costs they then invest in machinery or whatever to reduce costs when in fact they may be increasing costs. Now at the end of the year I might be out 20-50/head but looking at it over the years I am over costing rather than under costing my production costs. Because of this I know I am making more money than my accounts actually show but it is all legimate.

patsy_mccabe

The vast majority of suckler farmers are small part-timers. They keep a few quiet cows and try and get the best price for their weanlings. Some run a bull. Some use AI.
The biggest developments in the last few years were
1- The export market that paid big prices for fancy weanlings
2- The demise of milk and fertility in suckler cows, partly due to 1 above and the use of cont type breeding on the cow side. ICBF have tried to address this tru the genomics scheme.
3- Brexit. This has lead to a drop in sterling and so the price paid for Irish beef. This impacts at ringside and everyone blames poor Larry. :cool:

If the suckler cow were to disappear in Ireland what would the consequences be? We finished friesian bullocks here before. Most would grade R with maybe 1 or 2 O's. As the years went by, we found it harder and harder to get the R types. The holstein breeding meant tall boney types that were no more than bags of bones. We then switched to lim and chars and eventually ended up in suckling. I'm slowly building up a pedigree lim herd too. I reckon I will go all pedigree here eventually. We'll see.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The vast majority of suckler farmers are small part-timers. They keep a few quiet cows and try and get the best price for their weanlings. Some run a bull. Some use AI.
The biggest developments in the last few years were
1- The export market that paid big prices for fancy weanlings
2- The demise of milk and fertility in suckler cows, partly due to 1 above and the use of cont type breeding on the cow side. ICBF have tried to address this tru the genomics scheme.
3- Brexit. This has lead to a drop in sterling and so the price paid for Irish beef. This impacts at ringside and everyone blames poor Larry. :cool:

If the suckler cow were to disappear in Ireland what would the consequences be? We finished friesian bullocks here before. Most would grade R with maybe 1 or 2 O's. As the years went by, we found it harder and harder to get the R types. The holstein breeding meant tall boney types that were no more than bags of bones. We then switched to lim and chars and eventually ended up in suckling. I'm slowly building up a pedigree lim herd too. I reckon I will go all pedigree here eventually. We'll see.

I think it will to the detriment of our beef industry to have such extreme friesians being processed
Larry is able to get the same sort of beef from Poland cheaper

croot

"patsy_mccabe wrote: »

If the suckler cow were to disappear in Ireland what would the consequences be?

No customers for continental bulls

I'm slowly building up a pedigree lim herd too. I reckon I will go all pedigree here eventually. We'll see.

Oops

kay 9

Sucklers really paid off today

king_m

kay 9 wrote: »

Sucklers really paid off today

Was that headford mart?

kay 9

king_m wrote: »

Was that headford mart?

Yes

patsy_mccabe

What age/breeding were they?

charolais0153

king_m wrote: »

Was that headford mart?

I knee the hand writing

kay 9

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

What age/breeding were they?

Imx, lmx cows that I let an Irish moil to, not the greatest of calves but was expecting at least 500 or thereabouts.

Who2

kay 9 wrote: »

Imx, lmx cows that I let an Irish moil to, not the greatest of calves but was expecting at least 500 or thereabouts.

What possessed you to put a moil on limo cows. In fairness it’s not an animal that’s going to make money for you or the next man so you can’t really blame anyone. There’s very little in sucklers and for any bit out of weanlings it’s good blues, limos or charolais that’s wanted.

Dunedin

Bullocks wrote: »

A tight calving time helps that , nothing worse than catching one or two throughout the year for those jobs . I would be inclined to sell whatever doesn't calf within 6 weeks for convenience

I let the bull out for strictly 7 weeks and that’s it. What killed me the past few years is not having a proper creep area and too many small pokey sheds. Going around each of them with straw and hay/silage is painstaking never mind not being able to get in with tractor to clean out.

Have a 4 bay suckler shed nearly finished so this year should be a bit easier.

kay 9

Who2 wrote: »

What possessed you to put a moil on limo cows. In fairness it’s not an animal that’s going to make money for you or the next man so you can’t really blame anyone. There’s very little in sucklers and for any bit out of weanlings it’s good blues, limos or charolais that’s wanted.

Was due to personal circumstances, father had terminal cancer, has since passed and didn't want any agro from calving for one year.
Next year will be different of course.
This year is turning into a great one.

Dickie10

what are limosuine around 300 kg making. im siick today and my usual dealer was ringing me id say trying to offload 10 heifers , wasnt fit to talk to him today . he usally has angus and limo cross around 280-320 what type of money this year? i usually give around 615-670 the last few years

Mac Taylor

Dickie10 wrote: »

what are limosuine around 300 kg making. im siick today and my usual dealer was ringing me id say trying to offload 10 heifers , wasnt fit to talk to him today . he usally has angus and limo cross around 280-320 what type of money this year? i usually give around 615-670 the last few years

€500 to €600 depending on quality.

squinn2912

kay 9 wrote: »

Who2 wrote: »

What possessed you to put a moil on limo cows. In fairness it’s not an animal that’s going to make money for you or the next man so you can’t really blame anyone. There’s very little in sucklers and for any bit out of weanlings it’s good blues, limos or charolais that’s wanted.

Was due to personal circumstances, father had terminal cancer, has since passed and didn't want any agro from calving for one year.
Next year will be different of course.
This year is turning into a great one.

That’s very sad news you did great to keep the whole show going. Better days ahead

Danzy

squinn2912 wrote: »

That’s very sad news you did great to keep the whole show going. Better days ahead

Spot on.

kay 9

squinn2912 wrote: »

That’s very sad news you did great to keep the whole show going. Better days ahead

They kept me busy amid the turmoil and didn't have to assist once. Going to keep the heifers until next year and see how things go.
Considering the pedigree AA route, grandfather always did well at them. Should have a market for replacements and the dairy sector.
Maybe I'm mad.
I suppose we all are in ways

kollegeknight

2019- 10 calving- down from 13 but down about 13 since my father got sick 4 years ago.

Plan for next year is to replace a few of the bad performers and keep it at 10 until after BDGP.

After that reevaluate everything

Base price

kay 9 wrote: »

They kept me busy amid the turmoil and didn't have to assist once. Going to keep the heifers until next year and see how things go.
Considering the pedigree AA route, grandfather always did well at them. Should have a market for replacements and the dairy sector.
Maybe I'm mad.
I suppose we all are in ways

I reckon that they will make good hardy maternal cows. It is an unusual cross and one that I would be interested in. I would love to see pictures of them if you get a chance to put some up.

Condolences on your Dad's passing, RIP.

squinn2912

Be very interesting to see how they might turn out

kay 9

Base price wrote: »

I reckon that they will make good hardy maternal cows. It is an unusual cross and one that I would be interested in. I would love to see pictures of them if you get a chance to put some up.

Condolences on your Dad's passing, RIP.

Had pics of calves on other phone. I'll take a few when I get a chance again.
They're nicely coloured with a good warm feather.

kay 9

Few pics from a distance few weeks ago.

kay 9

The heifer in the first pic on the left is a real cracker and will be kept. Quiet as well

squinn2912

Hmm you may have answered this before but how did you come by the moiled bull as opposed to angus for instance. Moiled wouldn’t spring to mind for me
I’d be tempted to bull a pile of them the proof will be in how they rear a calf. Going back yonks I remember we had some milking cows with sh in them that looked like frig all but their calves were great hardy cattle and went on to be great cows to rear calves.