Star Wars: The Mandalorian [** Spoilers **] [Disney+] (US Pace)

Falthyron

Tony EH wrote: »

Star Wars stuff in a Star Wars show. How crazy is that! Absolutely awful.

Seriously though, I can understand the point of view, but don't accept it. While there has been numerous fan service moments in 'The Mandalorian', they have worked well, as opposed to the same efforts made in the sequel trilogy, where they just come off as lazy. It makes sense to have OT designed objects in this series because it's set a few years after 'Return of the Jedi'. It's part of that era, so why the hell wouldn't there be these things knocking around and I'm sure we'll be seeing far more OT equipment in the near future.

I agree that the "minds blown" is a bit silly. But it certainly has been a very enjoyable and coherent story up to this point, which is a lot more than can be said for Disney's other efforts, bar 'Rogue One'. That's for sure. It's been a perfectly fine and serviceable TV show so far, but my mind is very much intact.

Perhaps it is because of this sequel trilogy that I can't help but see 'nods' to the OT as some sort of exercise in nostalgia purely to keep the old guard interested. Maybe I have become weary of these gestures and would much rather see new aliens, new robots, new dialogue (!?), etc.

Undoubtedly, Mandalorian looks and feels great - it really does come across as something that takes place a year after ROTJ, which is an achievement, but I am not seeing substance just yet and the injection of nostalgia (to me, anyway) looks like something to cover over the lack of direction or purpose right now. This could very well change soon, and I can see my own opinion swaying more toward the positive if the show starts reducing the amount of fan service in exchange for a meatier plot and more characters.

Kennedy is talking absolute bollocks here. There have been literally millions of words written as "source material" for Star Wars. There's reams and reams of text just on lore alone. Plus thousands of comics and a ton of novels. There's source at an absolutely tiresome level. To go through it all would exhaust even the most valiant researcher.

Now, I am in no way saying that all or even any of it is good (I have never delved into much of it myself) and I'm sure a lot of it is absolute shite. But the same goes for 90% of Marvel superhero stories too and that's worked as "source" for the MCU.

In any case, Disney could simply have taken the best elements of the Thrawn trilogy and made a much better set of sequel movies right there. So her excuses are completely empty.

Kennedy's pre-emptive damage control statements just show that she hasn't a clue how to even begin to approach this thing. She never has, and such demonstrably false utterances like "there was no source material" displays that clearly.

She needs to be moved on or out. Her management of Star Wars, as a whole, has been a disaster.

I agree that she is clutching at straws here. I know of the Thrawn series, but not much else beyond that in terms of the books. But, I do know that many of them were endorsed by Lucas so there is a lot of material there that could translate well to film/TV and keep the old guard interested. Likewise for the games that have been produced, such as the Knights of the Old Republic series and the Kyle Katarn games. Great stories with interesting characters and arcs that could be used as a basis for creating many spin-offs.

However, her comment (assuming it is the same opinion as the Disney House) can not be dismissed. This is what Disney believe, nonetheless. I would argue that fear drives them so they are too frightened to use untested and untried material (the Zahn books, for example) or branch off far removed from the Skywalker timeline because then they will really have to work to come up with ideas, planets, species, robots, a plot..(!). This also explains the decision to drop Benioff and Weiss - as soon as they ran out of source material for GoT the show's writing and quality plummeted. I reckon the next few Star Wars films will be low-budget affairs (something akin to JOKER) to test the waters with a variety of different themes, tropes, eras, and styles, to find out what sticks and works before committing to a big trilogy.

NIMAN

Got to agree with a lot of what Falthryon said in their earlier post about the show generally.

I like the show, but am not blown away by it as many are. Maybe I'm getting harder to please with TV series, as there are now so many and so many good ones. Unless a show really grabs me in the first few episodes I can drop it and not be too concerned. The Mandalorian is good but its not great or fantastic. A lot of the rave reviews are rose-tinted I think. SW fans want to like it so bad its almost as if they are afraid to say anything negative at all.

Episode 3, which many said would blow me away, didn't. It was good yes, but nothing amazing. A bit cringe in parts, I too thought it was very formulaic. Tick all the necessary boxes. And they did.

Stop moaning ffs

Unannounced series they’re working on is rumoured to be Dr Aphra? Don’t know anything other than it’s a really popular comic run and she’s kind of a tomb raider working for Vader to find sith relics.
So it seems Kennedy is either wrong or is taken up wrong. They are developing stuff from their own mythology/backstories.

1800_Ladladlad

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Unannounced series they’re working on is rumoured to be Dr Aphra? Don’t know anything other than it’s a really popular comic run and she’s kind of a tomb raider working for Vader to find sith relics.
So it seems Kennedy is either wrong or is taken up wrong. They are developing stuff from their own mythology/backstories.

Maybe this is not a popular opinion but im tired the over pushing of equality now tbh it's mainly because of Kathleen and the feminism nonsense that was being pushied

Stop moaning ffs

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Maybe this is not a popular opinion but im tired the over pushing of equality now tbh it's mainly because of Kathleen and the feminism nonsense that was being pushied

We just did this though. It’s tiresome. You don’t like having to watch women in leading roles, and given equal time. Right. Ok. We’ve had 100 years of men in leading roles and women aren’t even there other than to be slapped or saved.

What’s your problem with them being given equal time now?

Grow up.

ollkiller

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Maybe this is not a popular opinion but im tired the over pushing of equality now tbh it's mainly because of Kathleen and the feminism nonsense that was being pushied

It's not an unpopular opinion. It's just a stupid one. If women in leading roles offends you just stop watching TV. Go outside or something.

Loafing Oaf

ollkiller wrote: »

It's not an unpopular opinion. It's just a stupid one.

In fairness, it's hopefully an unpopular one too...

Technocentral

So true 100% of entertainment should be aimed at men and only have male lead characters.

Stop moaning ffs

Pretty much

https://twitter.com/discreetlatino/status/1198372391191105536?s=21

Venom

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Pretty much

https://twitter.com/discreetlatino/status/1198372391191105536?s=21

Yeah, its odd how Star Wars fans hated female characters like Leia, Mon Motma, Mara Jade, Jyn Erso, Hera Syndulla, Sabine Wren, Dr Alpha and Ahsoka so much.


Oh wait, that didn't happen! Those characters were crazy popular with the fans and the merch, book, comic and toy sales back it up.



Maybe, just maybe its blank undeveloped and boring characters like Rey along with Finn and Poe, that fans dislike. Hmmm, I wonder what those three have in common!

silverharp

Technocentral wrote: »

So true 100% of entertainment should be aimed at men and only have male lead characters.

said no one ever

Stop moaning ffs

Venom wrote: »

Yeah, its odd how Star Wars fans hated female characters like Leia, Mon Motma, Mara Jade, Jyn Erso, Hera Syndulla, Sabine Wren, Dr Alpha and Ahsoka so much.


Oh wait, that didn't happen! Those characters were crazy popular with the fans and the merch, book, comic and toy sales back it up.



Maybe, just maybe its blank undeveloped and boring characters like Rey along with Finn and Poe, that fans dislike. Hmmm, I wonder what those three have in common!

Yeah daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran werent subject to endless onslaught of online abuse forcing them to delete their accounts at all. We just imagined it.
Please.

Venom

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Yeah daisy Ridley and Kelly Marie Tran werent subject to endless onslaught of online abuse forcing them to delete their accounts at all. We just imagined it.
Please.

And that's fcuked up and shouldn't happen but it's nothing to do with 99.9% of the Star Wars fan base.

TheIrishGrover

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Maybe this is not a popular opinion but im tired the over pushing of equality now tbh it's mainly because of Kathleen and the feminism nonsense that was being pushied

Oh FFS. This garbage. AGAIN???!!!

Heaven forbid there is ANY diversity in Star Wars universe. (Or ANY Sci-Fi or Fantasy entry).

What is it with Sci-Fi fans and their aversion to strong female characters? Seriously? Are they that threatened that the appearance of a strong female character is some agenda to topple men? Jesus Christ. Grow up and try talking to women..... Most of them are not that scary

Also.... Don't tell anyone but y'know the actor playing the Mandalorian?..... He's not even from America/Europe. Shhhhh. It's another diversity abomination!!!!

homerun_homer

Three episodes in and as much as I think the show is fine, it's certainly not as great as the hype and expectation. The pace is possibly at fault. From the captive bounty in episode one who sounds too American, asking for the loo, to the whole second episode. If this was made as a movie the first three episodes would have made a good first act when condensed.

As much as I like the talent involved in the production, it has a real whiff of a fan film you'd see on YouTube except with a far better production and budget. The third episode kicks things up a gear but I'm hoping there are some jaw dropping moments ahead in terms of action and spectacle.

TheIrishGrover

homerun_homer wrote: »

...... As much as I like the talent involved in the production, it has a real whiff of a fan film you'd see on YouTube except with a far better production and budget. The third episode kicks things up a gear but I'm hoping there are some jaw dropping moments ahead in terms of action and spectacle.

Back on track. Yeah, it does actually have that feel: The feel of a very very well done Youtube show used to advertise an upcoming movie.

I mean I'm enjoying it but I think the minimal dialogue, short runtime and episodic nature of the episodes does give it that vibe alright.

youcancallmeal

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Back on track. Yeah, it does actually have that feel: The feel of a very very well done Youtube show used to advertise an upcoming movie.

I mean I'm enjoying it but I think the minimal dialogue, short runtime and episodic nature of the episodes does give it that vibe alright.

Yes agree fully. I think this is all leading into a tie in to the upcoming movie. Hopefully in future they do a series that has a great star wars universe story in it's own right and not just some tie in to a movie.

pixelburp

Counterpoint, Rey was a better character than Jyn Erso, who although suffering from Rogue Ones reshoots, was a 2D "daddy issues" cliché, until the script decided she wasn't, then she died. She was rubbish, even if the film was itself good. Reys parental anxiety at least came from more interesting places, and even her apparent force ability might have a reason. There's substance to her character, Jyn was a mess.

Stop moaning ffs

Venom wrote: »

And that's fcuked up and shouldn't happen but it's nothing to do with 99.9% of the Star Wars fan base.

I watched it happen in real time. They were targetted by the geeks n gamers asshats and the ‘fandom Menace’ crowd and more. And it was relentless. Whether they claim they’re SW fans or not is irrevelevant (they claim they are and are fighting to make Star Wars great again or some ah!t)
But it definitely happened. Rian Johnson still gets it in the neck on a daily basis too by the by

Stop moaning ffs

pixelburp wrote: »

Counterpoint, Rey was a better character than Jyn Erso, who although suffering from Rogue Ones reshoots, was a 2D "daddy issues" cliché, until the script decided she wasn't, then she died. She was rubbish, even if the film was itself good. Reys parental anxiety at least came from more interesting places, and even her apparent force ability might have a reason. There's substance to her character, Jyn was a mess.

Jyns immediate 180 from being an unwilling captive of the rebellion to giving a rousing speech to get them involved is quite something. But I do love that film. And agree Rey is far more interesting

Tony EH

Falthyron wrote: »

Perhaps it is because of this sequel trilogy that I can't help but see 'nods' to the OT as some sort of exercise in nostalgia purely to keep the old guard interested. Maybe I have become weary of these gestures and would much rather see new aliens, new robots, new dialogue (!?), etc.

I can understand that. These sequels have poisoned the well to a very large extent with their cheap callbacks and a complete lack of effort to move forward.

Such things can be forgiven in something like 'Rogue One' or 'The Mandalorian' because of their time frames though. Because there is a logic to seeing Stormtroopers, TIE fighters, X Wings and whatnot within the period in question. But in a series of films that are decades later and after the complete and utter collapse of everything that came before, seeing the likes of TIE Fighters with a new coat of paint or slightly different looking stormtroopers just comes off as slacking.

There's good fan service and bad fan service. So far, 'The Mandalorian' has stayed just this side of good fan service, in that it doesn't feel entirely forced. But, it'll need to increasingly become its own thing more and more, while retaining a familiar feel and that's not an easy thing to do. Stray too much into unfamiliar territory and you might as well not call the thing Star Wars at all. But play it too safe and you have 'The Force Awakens'.

But in any case, yes, I think a lot of folk are simply primed to reject anything from Star Wars now, because of the stymieing effect that the sequel trilogy has had and the shambolic nature of Disney's handling of the whole thing.

Falthyron wrote: »

I agree that she is clutching at straws here. I know of the Thrawn series, but not much else beyond that in terms of the books. But, I do know that many of them were endorsed by Lucas so there is a lot of material there that could translate well to film/TV and keep the old guard interested. Likewise for the games that have been produced, such as the Knights of the Old Republic series and the Kyle Katarn games. Great stories with interesting characters and arcs that could be used as a basis for creating many spin-offs.

However, her comment (assuming it is the same opinion as the Disney House) can not be dismissed. This is what Disney believe, nonetheless. I would argue that fear drives them so they are too frightened to use untested and untried material (the Zahn books, for example) or branch off far removed from the Skywalker timeline because then they will really have to work to come up with ideas, planets, species, robots, a plot..(!)

I not dismissing her comment. I'm am, however, saying that she's not telling the truth. She must know of all the source material that was available. She was the one who tossed it all out at the beginning of her tenure. So Kennedy trying to play the poor mouth here and looking for sympathy comes off as highly disingenuous to put it mildly.

Disney's fear of new ideas notwithstanding, her comment betrays a completely lack of understanding and it is her that is being dismissive at the end of the day.

I'll repeat that I'm sure that a lot, perhaps the majority, of the expanded universe was twaddle (so is Disney's), but there are elements within it that could have been mined very successfully. They just didn't bother and chucked it all, while opting to remake the 1977 film in a much poorer fashion.

pixelburp

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Jyns immediate 180 from being an unwilling captive of the rebellion to giving a rousing speech to get them involved is quite something. But I do love that film. And agree Rey is far more interesting

Without knowing every detail of the reshoot, it's hard to know what the original intention with Jyn was, but as it was she was an awful character. It's not without reason Cassian Andor is getting his own show as he was the only rounded, arc structured character in the whole movie.

Tony EH

pixelburp wrote: »

Counterpoint, Rey was a better character than Jyn Erso, who although suffering from Rogue Ones reshoots, was a 2D "daddy issues" clichuntil the script decided she wasn't, then she died. She was rubbish, even if the film was itself good. Reys parental anxiety at least came from more interesting places, and even her apparent force ability might have a reason. There's substance to her character, Jyn was a mess.

Jyn Erso makes sense. Rey nobody is just a wish fulfilment writ large.

Erso is a child soldier that has survived with a terrorist organisation until she was abandoned by it. She's cynical and gloomy, because the world she inhabits has made her that way. She has "daddy issues" (like many women in real life) because she believed her father to be dead and her "surrogate" father, Saw Gerrera, turned out to be a loon.

Her change of heart with regards to being active again against the Empire, comes after she finds out that her father was, in fact, not dead, but working on a way to sabotage the most devastating weapon in the Imperial arsenal.

In the end, Erso is a relatively logical character. Rey is just flat out ridiculous, even with the fantasy context she's involved in.

1800_Ladladlad

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

We just did this though. It’s tiresome. You don’t like having to watch women in leading roles, and given equal time. Right. Ok. We’ve had 100 years of men in leading roles and women aren’t even there other than to be slapped or saved.

What’s your problem with them being given equal time now?

Grow up.

Christ. I suggest, maybe sit back in your pram and have a nap? And then when you are ready to respond without the melodramatics and the juvenile posts, maybe then respond? My point was relating to the SW universe & the well-known backlash from fans and was not relating to the oppression of women and their suffering for "100 years" in the film industry: rolleyes:


Let me clarify, which I should have done in the first place. The Last Jedi is a perfect example of the feminist bolloxogy pushing this narrative, pandering to identity politics etc. This isn't new. Ever since the last jedi its been widely slated by many many SW fans. Use SOLO as one example and how it flopped. It lost $100 million and SW toy sales declined for the first time. Disney and Lucas film attempting to out fans as "woman-hating, basement-dwelling neo-cons" for calling out Disneys obvious intent to "compromise" SW for the sake of furthering a specific "political" agenda. That didn't go well and backfired. The numbers and reviews speak for themselves. The majority of SW fans voiced their opinions and voted with their wallets!!

My second favorite SW films is Rogue One. I wasn't a fan of Felicity Jones as an actress but she completely changed my mind and was the main reason I loved that film. Deborah Chow who just directed ep3, that's brilliant stuff, Im now looking at her other work because of this. Rey in TFA was promising and was great to see. Mon Motma and of course Leia. Im looking forward to the scoundrel Zorri Bliss character in the TROS too.

I couldn't give a rats arse about gender. You would have to be delusional to ignore the controversy surrounding Kathleen, Disney and how their approach has been nothing short of a disaster. The absolute dog ****e writing and the lack of character progression is dire. Its to do with how the story was written and the major changes that have been made to both new and old characters that simply do not make sense what so ever. The way they've gone about "equality" since TFA in such a short period of time is the reason for people pointing it out. Anytime it's brought up its denied by fisher-price feminists and casual moviegoers who see it as a black and white topic who believes the issue to be clear cut without knowing the context behind it.



The Mandalorian so far is redeeming and Im looking forward to Cara Dune's Episode!!

Stop moaning ffs

You’ve prevaricated wildly there but sure. You don’t have to go see it if there’s an agenda that’s bothering you.

youcancallmeal

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Yes agree fully. I think this is all leading into a tie in to the upcoming movie. Hopefully in future they do a series that has a great star wars universe story in it's own right and not just some tie in to a movie.

What makes you think there will be a tie in with the upcoming movie

Stop moaning ffs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What makes you think there will be a tie in with the upcoming movie

The season finale is the week after the film comes out. People just connecting dots that possibly aren’t there. But maybe

But to the OPs point they have a director for the next film and it’s due 2022 and aren’t telling anyone who it is until the new year. I’d say it’s Feige but he’s denied it. He has to though.

NIMAN

People need to get over themselves about this show and SW in general.

Its entertainment ffs. If you aren't enjoying it, don't watch it. If you were a child who remembers going to A New Hope in 1977, and are complaining about the SW franchise now, get overself, you're 50 ffs.

I was a fan back in the day. But I'm old now and I don't think Disney care about men in their 50s when creating new content.

I really hope they don't tie together. The next film already has a mountain to climb. Last thing they need is for it to feel incomplete without prior knowledge of another entity.

This was a nice thread until all that gender nonsense got mentioned