Star Wars: The Mandalorian [** Spoilers **] [Disney+] (US Pace)

Tony EH

A better episode this week, but still a odd one off that didn't do much for the over all plot, making me wonder what the hell the plot of this thing actually is.

I thought with the first two episodes that there was going to be an 8 episode arc that began at 1 and "ended" at 8. But episodes 4 and 5 are completely self contained, to the point where you could skip them completely if you were so inclined.

'The Mandalorian' is a weird show. It's entertaining. It feels like Star Wars and ticks a lot of boxes. But story wise...I dunno. There's only 3 more episodes to go now and if even if things pick up for the next three weeks, I can see a lot of folk being left a little bewildered as to what the show is supposed to be about, other than a relatively pleasing exercise in memberberries.

fitz

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah, I think in any other scenario this would be a typical summer show, slight but enjoyable enough, but utterly superficial. The Star Wars license is definitely carrying a lot of the interest IMO, whereas other shows would probably try to put more ... well I don't want to say "effort" but I don't think this show needs to try very hard; and that's fine, before anyone decides to huff, but I'd love to see this series push the boat out a teeny bit more

I think they're also trying to appeal to as many casual TV viewers as possible. I'd love if it wasn't at all serialised, and was a more grown up, single threaded story arc, but... As the first live action Star Wars show, I totally get why they're keeping it light. Hopefully we'll see more substantial shows in future set in the SW universe.

_Kaiser_

Sad Professor wrote: »

The simple and minimal plotting is what I'm enjoying most about the show. I mean, TESB's plot is pretty spare too and feels like a detour until the last 30 minutes. If it was made today there'd be 5 times as much plot.

If these 8 episodes are like a big movie, then the third act will probably be the last 2 or 3 episodes. That's when the story will come together, or won't as the case may be. Either way I've enjoyed the ride.

Completely agree, but again, I think people have the wrong expectations here.

This is the setup for what will likely be a multi-season show if successful and which will potentially tie the time between ROTJ and TFA together in the process.

Season 1 then has to be about getting fans on board and that means lots of nostalgia with a hook (Baby Yoda, or Mando himself depending on your preference).

Just like last week, I enjoyed this one too. As I said before, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan anyway (Trek - barring the awful Discovery and JJ films - is more "me") but I am really liking this series so far.

As for the "throwback" episodic nature of it vs the overarching season arc and multi plots and character development - I've no issue with that. There is an overarching arc but it's still able to work as a standalone (something important for rewatchability - a big problem with many shows now is that you can't just throw one on randomly) and the new characters (one shot or not) are engaging and could be brought back and welcomed by the fans.

But this isn't a movie and its not The Wire/Breaking Bad/<insert your own ground breaking show here>. If you watch it bearing that and the above in mind, it's probably going to be a lot more enjoyable.

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

The simple and minimal plotting is what I'm enjoying most about the show. I mean, TESB's plot is pretty spare too and feels like a detour until the last 30 minutes. If it was made today there'd be 5 times as much plot.

Sure. But there is a continuous flow in 'The Empire Strikes Back', whereas in 'The Mandalorian' that flow has stopped at episode 4 and we have two episodes now that can be completely erased from viewing and the story wouldn't change one bit.

And in an mere 8 episode show, that's just odd to me. Sure, it's been nice to look at and I very much enjoyed the fifth episode, especially after the duff effort of number four. But I'm still wondering what the hell kind of story the show is trying to tell here, when already a quarter of it's 4 hour run time has been just unnecessary fluff.

Theboinkmaster

Very poor series so far - no story or characters.

It's like it was written by 10 year olds and targeted at 10 year olds.

Episodes are far too short and seems just a bunch of scenes (mainly fank ****) thrown together.

Very disappointing.

Theboinkmaster

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Very poor series so far - no story or characters.

It's like it was written by 10 year olds and targeted at 10 year olds.

Episodes are far too short and seems just a bunch of scenes (mainly fank ****) thrown together.

Very disappointing.

What were your expectations to be disappointed? Star Wars is mediocre on average. This surpasses that for me.

yourdeadwright

I don't get people complaining ,
Its the first live action star wars show, they obviously decided to see what the reception is like before trying anything to outrageous or complicated
Its 8 simple little stories with a short run time set in the star wars Universe involving the Mando ,
I wouldn't be surprise if season 2 becomes more like your normal tv series ,Don't forget Amazon has yet to launch properly world wide so this could be a trial to see how its received all be it a expensive one

Penn

Tony EH wrote: »

Sure. But there is a continuous flow in 'The Empire Strikes Back', whereas in 'The Mandalorian' that flow has stopped at episode 4 and we have two episodes now that can be completely erased from viewing and the story wouldn't change one bit.

And in an mere 8 episode show, that's just odd to me. Sure, it's been nice to look at and I very much enjoyed the fifth episode, especially after the duff effort of number four. But I'm still wondering what the hell kind of story the show is trying to tell here, when already a quarter of it's 4 hour run time has been just unnecessary fluff.

I don't mind how the last two episodes have somewhat been filler. I enjoyed the performances and set-pieces, and it all adds to building the extension of the universe outside of the Skywalker-saga. If the episodes were an hour long like a lot of other similar shows, then it'd be worse. But for now, I'm really enjoying the slow development and the little bits of characterisation that happens throughout.

Tony EH

Penn wrote: »

I don't mind how the last two episodes have somewhat been filler. I enjoyed the performances and set-pieces, and it all adds to building the extension of the universe outside of the Skywalker-saga. If the episodes were an hour long like a lot of other similar shows, then it'd be worse. But for now, I'm really enjoying the slow development and the little bits of characterisation that happens throughout.

Sure, it's been enjoyable - apart from 4, which on second viewing was just crap. But if you have filler in such a short run series, it says to me that the producers didn't have that much of a story there to begin with.

Things may pick up again with episode 6, but then there'll still be weird and unnecessary detours to that Polynesian planet and Tatooine.

It's a very curious way of doing things.

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

Sure, it's been enjoyable - apart from 4, which on second viewing was just crap. But if you have filler in such a short run series, it says to me that the producers didn't have that much of a story there to begin with.

Things may pick up again with episode 6, but then there'll still be weird and unnecessary detours to that Polynesian planet and Tatooine.

It's a very curious way of doing things.

I don't know how people can claim with so much certainty what is or is not 'filler' before they see where the story goes, what planets or characters might be revisited.

Also, setting expectations to be satisfied based on an 8 episode season seems strange when we know season 2 is coming, if not many more seasons.

It definitely isn't a standard approach by recent TV show expectations but it is an unique position as the first Star Wars show and dealing with it in an interesting way, even if it isn't the way I would prefer. I can't always get what I want so I will enjoy the ride

yourdeadwright

Tony EH wrote: »

Sure, it's been enjoyable - apart from 4, which on second viewing was just crap. But if you have filler in such a short run series, it says to me that the producers didn't have that much of a story there to begin with.

Things may pick up again with episode 6, but then there'll still be weird and unnecessary detours to that Polynesian planet and Tatooine.

It's a very curious way of doing things.

Did we learn anything in episode 4 ?

The bounty hunters are tracking him planet to planet, and Mando is not willing to leave the burden of looking after "baby Yoda " on someone else while there are people on his trail ,

Agent Coulson

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Did we learn anything in episode 4 ?

The bounty hunters are tracking him planet to planet, and Mando is not willing to leave the burden of looking after "baby Yoda " on someone else while there are people on his trail ,

Ye he Happily leaves Baby Yoda with a mechanic in episode 5 while he goes off after a bounty.

pixelburp

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't know how people can claim with so much certainty what is or is not 'filler' before they see where the story goes, what planets or characters might be revisited.

Also, setting expectations to be satisfied based on an 8 episode season seems strange when we know season 2 is coming, if not many more seasons.

It definitely isn't a standard approach by recent TV show expectations but it is an unique position as the first Star Wars show and dealing with it in an interesting way, even if it isn't the way I would prefer. I can't always get what I want so I will enjoy the ride

Right, but if Season 1 spends too much time setting itself up for some currently unspecified promise of expansion in Season 2, who will follow? Like, again, if this wasn't Star Wars I absolutely guarantee there'd be more thrown at the wall here & now, in terms of both character and story, and while that wouldn't be a promise of better quality - there's a certain amount of what amounts to cock-teasing going on with this show. No other production could get away with that; imagine if Game of Thrones spent Season 1 just arsing about Highgarden for a couple of episodes, the show would have died in the crib

I've enjoyed the ride so far, mostly, and Baby Yoda has charmed the pants off everyone, but like a ride I'm often left thinking "is that it?" Maybe all this is set up. Maybe it isn't though. Too early to judge, but all you can do with any degree of certainty is look at what's infront of us & "aired" in the here and now. Plenty of shows change in between seasons after all.

Fair point about waiting to see how this season shakes out, and that's a totally logical and sensible approach, but honestly at this stage it'll want to really ramp up something spectacular to make all that dithering seem worth it.

(Disclosure, I've yet to get around to watching episode 5)

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

Right, but if Season 1 spends too much time setting itself up for some currently unspecified promise of expansion in Season 2, who will follow? Like, again, if this wasn't Star Wars I absolutely guarantee there'd be more thrown at the wall here & now, in terms of both character and story, and while that wouldn't be a promise of better quality - there's a certain amount of what amounts to cock-teasing going on with this show. No other production could get away with that; imagine if Game of Thrones spent Season 1 just arsing about Highgarden for a couple of episodes, the show would have died in the crib

Fair, but the fact is that this is Star Wars. They have extra leeway that other shows don't while also having added burdens that those same shows don't have to face.

I don't see what real value it adds to the discussion to highlight what other shows can or can't get away with.

I've enjoyed the ride so far, mostly, and Baby Yoda has charmed the pants off everyone, but like a ride I'm often left thinking "is that it?" Maybe all this is set up. Maybe it isn't though. Too early to judge, but all you can do with any degree of certainty is look at what's infront of us & "aired" in the here and now. Plenty of shows change in between seasons after all.

Fair point about waiting to see how this season shakes out, and that's a totally logical and sensible approach, but honestly at this stage it'll want to really ramp up something spectacular to make all that dithering seem worth it.

(Disclosure, I've yet to get around to watching episode 5)

We all want instant gratification these days. People complaining that there isn't enough episodes, that they're too short, that we have to wait a week between them, that they haven't gotten the payoff they want after not even 3 hours of the show. Yes, we can only judge from what we've seen so far but how many shows have really 'ramped up' more than this after 3 hours? I get that people aren't fans of the episodic flow of it, I'm not either, but if we're going to judge by only what is in front of us then we need to judge it fairly, not on some expectations that were likely impossible to be meet.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't know how people can claim with so much certainty what is or is not 'filler' before they see where the story goes, what planets or characters might be revisited.

Also, setting expectations to be satisfied based on an 8 episode season seems strange when we know season 2 is coming, if not many more seasons.

It definitely isn't a standard approach by recent TV show expectations but it is an unique position as the first Star Wars show and dealing with it in an interesting way, even if it isn't the way I would prefer. I can't always get what I want so I will enjoy the ride

4 and 5 are the very definition of filler. They do nothing whatsoever to move the story on in any real way and could, in theory, be cut without any comsequence.

They only introduction/event that had mattered in the last hour of content was the MMA girl and that could have happened in another way.

There may be more offshoots from the events of 4 and 5, but because they were so self contained, that doesn't seem very likely.

pixelburp

Foxtrol wrote: »

We all want instant gratification these days. People complaining that there isn't enough episodes, that they're too short, that we have to wait a week between them, that they haven't gotten the payoff they want after not even 3 hours of the show. Yes, we can only judge from what we've seen so far but how many shows have really 'ramped up' more than this after 3 hours? I get that people aren't fans of the episodic flow of it, I'm not either, but if we're going to judge by only what is in front of us then we need to judge it fairly, not on some expectations that were likely impossible to be meet.

No, not instant gratification, just consistency of approach. I'm surprised how scattershot the series has been, given who's in charge. 8 episodes of story isn't hard to bring together and I'm just genuinely amused that Disney have been so random. Random running times, random filler episodes. It has been slick and looked like a lot of money went into it, the end product has just felt a lot slighter and superficial than I'd have expected from the Mouse House.

You're dead right, judge the show fairly, but IMO I'm judging based on high standards already set: given the expertise and just how well I know Disney can make a story, I'm surprised at how half baked some of it has been - particularly that Stargate episode. Same as if I'd expect more from a new HBO show than, say, SyFy; bias or precedent, you tell me like I've constantly said I've enjoyed the ride, but believe the studio can do better.

I suspect the last two episodes will be the most plot heavy, that it'll all come to a head then; no more than those 22 episode wheel spinners v where you get the big finale.

Acosta

It's only OK really. It hasn't kicked on at all from my initial enjoyment of the first 2 or 3 episodes. There's just not nearly enough going on. Feels more like kids show.

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

4 and 5 are the very definition of filler. They do nothing whatsoever to move the story on in any real way and could, in theory, be cut without any comsequence.

They only introduction/event that had mattered in the last hour of content was the MMA girl and that could have happened in another way.

There may be more offshoots from the events of 4 and 5, but because they were so self contained, that doesn't seem very likely.

In theory, where you ignore any character or relationship development and make assumptions about what will or wont happen next.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

In theory, where you ignore any character or relationship development and make assumptions about what will or wont happen next.

What relationships? From Episode 4 onward he met Cara Dune, that's really it. Everyone else he won't meet again, because they're dead or passing through.

As said, maybe in 6, 7 and 8 we might get back on track again. But, then the series is over and we have to wait another year to see where things have gone.

But, the point is, in a series that IS JUST 8 EPISODES LONG, it's odd, to say the least, to have the main story thread chucked while we dick about with Polynesians and go to see Mos Eisley for a bit.

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

No, not instant gratification, just consistency of approach. I'm surprised how scattershot the series has been, given who's in charge. 8 episodes of story isn't hard to bring together and I'm just genuinely amused that Disney have been so random. Random running times, random filler episodes. It has been slick and looked like a lot of money went into it, the end product has just felt a lot slighter and superficial than I'd have expected from the Mouse House.

Aside from you post right now, I don't see many complaints about consistency though, what is regular is that people aren't getting what they want/expect and calling episodes filler because of it.

You're dead right, judge the show fairly, but IMO I'm judging based on high standards already set: given the expertise and just how well I know Disney can make a story, I'm surprised at how half baked some of it has been - particularly that Stargate episode. Same as if I'd expect more from a new HBO show than, say, SyFy; bias or precedent, you tell me like I've constantly said I've enjoyed the ride, but believe the studio can do better.

What high standards have been set by Star Wars recently in movies and ever in live action TV? I'm dabbling in the animation series now and so far it seems very episodic as well. Where are you getting that this should be compared to Game of Thrones as far as story telling?

I suspect the last two episodes will be the most plot heavy, that it'll all come to a head then; no more than those 22 episode wheel spinners v where you get the big finale.

I suspect the same.

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

What relationships? From Episode 4 onward he met Cara Dune, that's really it. Everyone else he won't meet again, because they're dead or passing through.

Mando and the Child.

As said, maybe in 6, 7 and 8 we might get back on track again. But, then the series is over and we have to wait another year to see where things have gone.

But, the point is, in a series that IS JUST 8 EPISODES LONG, it's odd, to say the least, to have the main story thread chucked while we dick about with Polynesians and go to see Mos Eisley for a bit.

Bolded shows the instant gratification that I highlighted earlier. You don't seem to really care about the journey, you just want to get the payoff right now. Might as well just search out spoilers.

I want the same payoff but they're taking their time with it so I'm going along for the ride. I can't remember too many critically acclaimed shows that have given us this many plot moving moments/payoffs in the first 3 hours and yet people are still moaning.

Falthyron

Foxtrol wrote: »

Mando and the Child.

All Mando learned in episode 5 was that he can't leave a sleeping child on his ship as it will wake and go wandering. That's it. Nothing else happened between them. Oh, and when the child fell from the Gunslinger and hit the ground, Mando didn't even notice.

That's it. That is how their relationship developed in episode five.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

Mando and the Child.

That was established in the first 3 episodes.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Bolded shows the instant gratification that I highlighted earlier. You don't seem to really care about the journey, you just want to get the payoff right now. Might as well just search out spoilers.

And you were wrong then, just as you are now.

Nobody is talking about "instant gratification". They are discussing the issue of having two episodes of filler in an eight episode series. Those two episodes don't appear to have been anything but self contained one off's - Cara Dune's introduction notwithstanding.

This isn't difficult to understand.

pixelburp

Foxtrol wrote: »

What high standards have been set by Star Wars recently in movies and ever in live action TV? I'm dabbling in the animation series now and so far it seems very episodic as well. Where are you getting that this should be compared to Game of Thrones as far as story telling?
.

Disney. This is all Disney, who I think we can agree know a thing or two about manufacturing stories My point is that I instinctively expect more from something made by Disney, even if their recent live action remakes betray a certain lowballing, than studios with a flakier reputation. It's not that I specifically expect more from Star Wars insofar as who are making it and their own total history.

Where are you getting the game of thrones thing; the Highgarden remark was just that this show is getting more leeway for its dithering than other new shows might in their first run. I wasn't expecting or wanting GoT chicanery. But regardless, narratively Mandorlian is the thinnest show I've watched in years, albeit with the budget of a blockbuster film. It's borderline experimental!

tigger123

Just finished episode 5, and really really enjoyed it. It's a cracking series.

I'm particularly enjoying the music.

pixelburp

tigger123 wrote: »

Just finished episode 5, and really really enjoyed it. It's a cracking series.

I'm particularly enjoying the music.

Yup, amid the critical discussion it's worth pointing out how good the music has been, and unconventional for the universe. I saw a reviewer compare it to Western music played by droids, and that kinda nails it.

1800_Ladladlad

pixelburp wrote: »

Right, but if Season 1 spends too much time setting itself up for some currently unspecified promise of expansion in Season 2, who will follow? Like, again, if this wasn't Star Wars I absolutely guarantee there'd be more thrown at the wall here & now, in terms of both character and story, and while that wouldn't be a promise of better quality - there's a certain amount of what amounts to cock-teasing going on with this show. No other production could get away with that; imagine if Game of Thrones spent Season 1 just arsing about Highgarden for a couple of episodes, the show would have died in the crib

I've enjoyed the ride so far, mostly, and Baby Yoda has charmed the pants off everyone, but like a ride I'm often left thinking "is that it?" Maybe all this is set up. Maybe it isn't though. Too early to judge, but all you can do with any degree of certainty is look at what's infront of us & "aired" in the here and now. Plenty of shows change in between seasons after all.

Well its seems you got the ride on the weeknd. Well for some

Foxtrol

Falthyron wrote: »

All Mando learned in episode 5 was that he can't leave a sleeping child on his ship as it will wake and go wandering. That's it. Nothing else happened between them. Oh, and when the child fell from the Gunslinger and hit the ground, Mando didn't even notice.

That's it. That is how their relationship developed in episode five.

What about episode 4?

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

That was established in the first 3 episodes.

Establishing and developing are different.

And you were wrong then, just as you are now.

Nobody is talking about "instant gratification". They are discussing the issue of having two episodes of filler in an eight episode series. Those two episodes don't appear to have been anything but self contained one off's - Cara Dune's introduction notwithstanding.

This isn't difficult to understand.

Again, you have no idea what is filler or what will have an impact later. Absolutely none. You have your theories and what 'appears' to be the case.

It is the same nonsense from some about TLJ. People had expectations and lose themselves when they don't get what they want. #notmyluke

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

Disney. This is all Disney, who I think we can agree know a thing or two about manufacturing stories My point is that I instinctively expect more from something made by Disney, even if their recent live action remakes betray a certain lowballing, than studios with a flakier reputation. It's not that I specifically expect more from Star Wars insofar as who are making it and their own total history.

Disney/Pixar/Marvel isnt making these though, it is their Star Wars section. Even if you narrow it to just Disney, do they have a great history in critically acclaimed TV shows? I cant think of any, especially not along the lines that people seem to be expecting here.

Where are you getting the game of thrones thing; the Highgarden remark was just that this show is getting more leeway for its dithering than other new shows might in their first run. I wasn't expecting or wanting GoT chicanery. But regardless, narratively Mandorlian is the thinnest show I've watched in years, albeit with the budget of a blockbuster film. It's borderline experimental!

I agree on the experimental part. I feel the focus on a single character that is masked really messes with how people are assessing this. I know you pushed back on your earlier mention of GoT but if you went and followed the arc of a single character across a season or two and put them into 8 episodes I suspect that you'd have plenty of 'filler' character/relationship building episodes, where the plot doesn't really progress. They however tended to mix the 'filler' episodes for one character with more plot heavy one for others.