Star Wars: The Mandalorian [** Spoilers **] [Disney+] (US Pace)

leggo

It’s a Disney+ show.

pixelburp

leggo wrote: »

It’s a Disney+ show.

And? Toy Story 1, 2, 3 and 4 are kids films but still have smart, complex character work. Same for most of Pixar's work TBH. It's just an observation, not a criticism, but the writing felt oddly childish at times in Mandolorian, like you might find with an ostensible kids show.

In any case, Disney+ is not CBBC. It appears to be pitching itself as "for all ages" rather than "kids TV", presumably cos it knows who its audience is. Which is why the MCU content are all spin offs rather than (say) The Runaways on Hulu, which did aim itself at tweens / teens IMO.

Tony EH

pixelburp wrote: »

Someone else here suggested it before gbear, and on reflection it could be true; methinks this might have started as an intentional kids show, maybe even another Filioni produced cartoon and that the scripts got moved to live action instead. The dialogue and characterisation has been pretty simplistic at times; not that I was expecting deep complexities in a Star Wars show, but the scripts often had a certain naty about them.

Yeh, there is a kind of spastic, uncoordinated, feel to the run of the show, I have to agree. Like it doesn't really know who it's aiming for at times. I found some of it to be quite juvenile and then some of it more "adult" too.

It's a very strange show indeed. Entertaining over all, but strange.

But, I think you're correct Pix, in that its origins may have been more akin to what Filoni has had his hand involved in before and in that respect Disney probably pulled a good move by making it a live action affair.

leggo

pixelburp wrote: »

And? Toy Story 1, 2, 3 and 4 are kids films but still have smart, complex character work. Same for most of Pixar's work TBH. It's just an observation, not a criticism, but the writing felt oddly childish at times in Mandolorian, like you might find with an ostensible kids show.

In any case, Disney+ is not CBBC.

Not really. Toy Story doesn’t ever move far from “they’re toys and they want to be played with by kids.” Literally every movie is based around that central tenet. The rest is plot contrivance told entertainingly (the deepest they get is TS3 which is basically ‘What happens when your kid is too old to play with you?’). If you’d have said Inside Out now, that would be a better example. But still, you’re not going to get a Mad Men-like character study on Disney+ and it’s pretty wild to expect it or criticise it as such. It’s not a kids show, they actually made things darker than I’d have expected at the outset, but it is a show that has to be made with the idea that kids will watch in mind.

pixelburp

leggo wrote: »

But still, you’re not going to get a Mad Men-like character study on Disney+ and it’s pretty wild to expect it or criticise it as such. It’s not a kids show, they actually made things darker than I’d have expected at the outset, but it is a show that has to be made with the idea that kids will watch in mind.

And I literally said you can't expect complexity so I'm not comparing it to adult only entertainment, only a suspicion at a gearing towards a child-only audience at first (like Resistance), before presumably it got retrofitted into something older audiences might want to watch. The tone was all over the place but at times felt incredibly juvenile.

You can write for all audiences without sounding like you're talking down to the viewer, which Pixar nails (or TV output like Dr Who at its best), but other output falls down on that, including a lot of animated cartoons (usually the ones not adopted by adults ha). So for me, sometimes the Mandalorian came off too much like the latter, with oddly "hooray, we did it!" simplicity.

The MCU spin offs make it clear enough the audience Disney+ is aiming for contains all four quadrants, to use the parlance.

Gbear

pixelburp wrote: »

And? Toy Story 1, 2, 3 and 4 are kids films but still have smart, complex character work. Same for most of Pixar's work TBH. It's just an observation, not a criticism, but the writing felt oddly childish at times in Mandolorian, like you might find with an ostensible kids show.

In any case, Disney+ is not CBBC. It appears to be pitching itself as "for all ages" rather than "kids TV", presumably cos it knows who its audience is. Which is why the MCU content are all spin offs rather than (say) The Runaways on Hulu, which did aim itself at tweens / teens IMO.

There's simplicity in brevity, and then there's simplicity in obtusely spelling out obvious things that are happening.

Harry Potter, for example, is written with quite simple prose. I expected it to feel really slow and laboured when I first reread it as an adult, but actually, that isn't an issue. It's simple and accessible, but doesn't treat the reader like they're stupid.

Mostly that hasn't been an issue in the Mandalorian, but I felt it far more strongly this week.

The prison break episode didn't feel remotely like that, for example. It could've almost been recut from an R-rated show to remove the gore and swearing. In fact I never noticed it until watching this episode. Maybe it was there the whole time, but I don't think so.

Slydice

Tony EH wrote: »

He's not, as far as I know. Neither him, nor dear old dad, were Mandalorians. They just appropriated the armour and the weaponry. If I recall rightly, the Mandalorians even had prices on their heads too.

Seems there's no cannon on whether they are or not.

I'm happy to take the position of it is not yet known but Tony EH has spoken

Some of the fight scenes in the last episode were complete garbage. But it's been like that the whole way through. It still takes me out of it. Mando doing hand to hand combat in front of a phalanx of troops only for a named character to shoot him in the head. Ugh.

Tony EH

Slydice wrote: »

Seems there's no cannon on whether they are or not.

I'm happy to take the position of it is not yet known but Tony EH has spoken

Well, it's not my rule or anything. As far as I know, it was Lucas who made the decision not to have Jango Fett part of Mandalorian culture and it was confirmed in 'Rebels' at some point.

But frankly, if I had the power, I would cut to a scene of Boba Fett's rotting corpse inside the sarlacc every time somebody mentioned his name . To me, he's only ever been a secondary baddie and the cult surrounding him has always been baffling. He's pretty much a scumbag, who deserved his demise in 'Return of the Jedi'.

I don't know who this geezer is and I don't care, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nua2NUgvCkw

ERG89

Last episode was fine but there wasn't much of a conclusion to anything. Baby Yoda & Mando are still on the run & the big bad (introduced a little late in the series) is still alive.
There are some nitpicks I have tho. I wish Mando was made to be more heroic at times as others, including the kid he is protecting help him in practicaly every episode.
Really the 5th & 6th episodes for me did a number on the enjoyment I had of the series, I watched them both back to back which made it worse. There is something about the dialogue that at times that is a bit too bantery in serious situations, like the scene with the stormtroopers early in the last episode could have been taken straight out of a marvel movie. Probably doesn't bother most people but I was kinda of done with that stuff years ago & takes me right out of any peril I'm meant to feel.
I love Baby Yoda in general & the character still has a bunch of mystery but I feel like they realised after a few episodes in he was gonna be huge and just added him in more.

Falthyron

A mediocre ending to a mediocre if not poor show overall.

Tonally, the Mandalorian is dysfunctional. Darker moments that make the show appear quite adult is interspersed with child-friendly, Disney-esque moments. The final scene of the last episode where we see

Mando, Cara, and Greef, standing together having a sort of 'and it all worked out in the end' casual chat is so misplaced in tone and context. It reminded me of how every Scooby Doo episode ends and I was waiting for the zinger before cutting to credits.

Someone mentioned that it's as if the show started off as adult themed, but then switched to kid themed half way through, or they realised it was too adult themed and they needed to throw in random typical Disney kid show moments to keep it 'balanced'. The dialogue is woeful. Greef:

There's the lava river!

Really? The giant

lava river

, the one right in front of you at the end of a corridor, are you sure, Greef?!

Eight episodes. Three (at the very least, you could argue episode 6 as well) were absolute filler. The quality of dialogue ranging from being written by a child to an English graduate trying to sound profound (Werner Herzog and his libations). Moments that make no sense at all and suffer from the obvious Chekov's Gun failure (in this case,

an actual gun - the EWEB that required a power cable and a mount, but ignored when Mando has it

) Gideon

shooting at Mando and the kid with a fúcking TIE-Fighter when he wants to capture the child...!

.

And then there's the constant stream of 'memberberry' fan service. There's no substance here other than dopamine hits to lull the viewer into liking the show because it makes them 'member the good stuff.

Mediocre at best for a TV Show, outright baffling and confusing at it's worst. Maybe it comes down to what you want from a Star Wars show, but I wanted something new, fresh, and daring. To me, this is a Walker Texas Ranger omnibus on a Saturday afternoon in the 1990s. Fine, particularly when hungover, but bereft of any staying power, anything to talk about, and highly predictable. Or, as I have been banging on about Disney and Star Wars for the years now, completely safe.

Slydice

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, it's not my rule or anything. As far as I know

Yeah it'd be great if there was some cannon saying whether it was one way or the other but I couldn't find any.

Slydice

Nope. Coming up blank. Best I can find is a sketchy one from
Pablo Hidalgo saying 'The Fetts aren't Mandalorian" but then getting sketchy about it saying they are from a Mandalorian system "though I suppose Jango claimed to be from Concord Dawn at some point":
https://web.archive.org/web/20160922230746/https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/693214698003644417

The animated shows made it clear that different clans behaved differently and this show doesn't change that up.

My guess is they are keeping it as an open question so they can decide which way they want to play it later on.

al87987

Enjoyed the show overall.

Must have been the only person who actually enjoyed the stormtroopers bit at the start, made them seem more human.

leggo

al87987 wrote: »

Enjoyed the show overall.

Must have been the only person who actually enjoyed the stormtroopers bit at the start, made them seem more human.

No, I laughed a lot too. “He just killed someone for interrupting.” Also for those saying the enemy needs to be competent to have any stakes, while that generally may apply, if they were then IG11 single-handedly almost taking down an army of them all while holding a baby would’ve been ridiculous. Because I know they’re incompetent (and I can excuse this because I know now they were essentially taken from their homes as kids and are just normal people), I can ease up and enjoy that moment.

Acosta

I couldn't recommend this. It's too straight forward and a bit of a non event. Feels like a little kids show. Not sure I'll bother with the next season..

_Kaiser_

This came up on my YouTube recommendations earlier.. Pretty cool in fairness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zDkniNTeZg

Just needs some Kurt Russell

youcancallmeal

Much like the new movies it's all a bit formulaic and seems like a missed opportunity considering the money and talent involved. I enjoyed it for what it was anyway

Padre_Pio

Why has no one heard of the Force?

If this is set 5 years after Return of the Jedi, then they must be aware of Luke Skywalker and his force powers, especially Cara Dune, who was part of the rebellion.

Even then it's only been about 30 years since the Jedi Order was destroyed. Yoda was a general during the Clone Wars, and I presume fairly famous back in the day and someone would at least be aware of his species.

Seems to be a recurring theme in star wars, Solo calls it an ancient religion.

pixelburp

Yeah, I can't work out if I'm on board this intentional ignorance or not. I get why individuals like the Skywalkers might not be known, or even the extent of the Force, but simply not having heard of a key structure of the galactic power structure, that existed within everyone's lifetimes, seems like a huge stretch. Even if the show's set at the fringes of the galaxy, the whole point of the civil war was a kick against the pillars of the senate & Jedi council.

Slydice

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Why has no one heard of the Force?

I'm vague on it myself but the closest explanation I can remember is that it comes down to how few Jedi exist.

Something like 10,000 (link) out of a total of 4,000,000,000,000,000 (link)

Compare that to something like scientology here where their number of "Volunteer Ministers" is:
Something like 9,000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Ministers) out of a total of 8,000,000,000 (link) population on the planet

So the Jedi in their Galaxy total being:
*0.0000000000025‬
compared to scientology "Volunteer Ministers" *of our planet total being:
0.000001125‬

So the idea being that out in the backwater parts of the galaxy, it's unlikely people have heard more than rumours of the Jedi. Cara is a good question though.. maybe she has heard more than we've seen so far. Maybe any of them have. These characters haven't exactlyl made their names for being up-front and open about everything

Except Cara who WILL fight you if you are an imperial!

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This came up on my YouTube recommendations earlier.. Pretty cool in fairness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zDkniNTeZg

Just needs some Kurt Russell

There were two "recommended" videos alongside it for me. Also decent covers!

pixelburp

Slydice wrote: »

I'm vague on it myself but the closest explanation I can remember is that it comes down to how few Jedi exist.

Yeah but the Jedi Order were a pretty prominent part of the old government, right? A fusty institution that maybe had little effect, but were still important enough to act as middlemen during trade embargoes on backwater planets like Naboo

It'd be like an Irish person having never even heard of the Senate. Fair enough if you can't name a single senator but you know it's there. And yes yes, it's Star Wars and the canon has been reset, but the Jedi thing seems a little inconsistent.

Slydice

pixelburp wrote: »

Fair enough if you can't name a single senator but you know it's there.

Yeah but I didn't know scientology had "Volunteer Ministers" until I looked up their version of priests for that post.

Similarly, very few people in Ireland would've known much about the IMF until they came into town when then property bubble popped last decade.

Pretty sure the star wars people would've easily known about the Republic and Senate and later the Empire and New Republic because they are there in the middle of their lives.. either being the police force or an option for money.

Powerful and all as the Jedi were, even Windu recognised their small number saying:

Tony EH

Slydice wrote: »

Yeah it'd be great if there was some cannon saying whether it was one way or the other but I couldn't find any.

'The Clone Wars' S02E12 - "Jango Fett is a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armour is beyond me." - Prime Minister Almec of Mandalore.

Pretty much a canon reference and according to some, insisted upon by George Lucas.

Tony EH

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Why has no one heard of the Force?

If this is set 5 years after Return of the Jedi, then they must be aware of Luke Skywalker and his force powers, especially Cara Dune, who was part of the rebellion.

Even then it's only been about 30 years since the Jedi Order was destroyed. Yoda was a general during the Clone Wars, and I presume fairly famous back in the day and someone would at least be aware of his species.

Seems to be a recurring theme in star wars, Solo calls it an ancient religion.

This has always been one of the aspects of Star Wars that's really annoyed me. But, if I was to try and think my way around it, there may be folk who have heard of Skywalker, but not know of his connection to the Force and all of that gibberish. They may also have heard of the Jedi Order, but still believe that there are no more of them left. Luke didn't go around advertising his desire to resurrect the Jedi or anything.

What's even more absurd is Rey not even having a clue who Luke Skywalker was, just 30 years after he helped eliminate the Empire. But she knew who Han Solo was.

silverharp

i like it, saved them up for xmas so i could watch one a day. the sparse use of dialogue is a pleasant surprise relative to the verbal diarrhea you get in something like The 100.

Slydice

Tony EH wrote: »

'The Clone Wars' S02E12 - "Jango Fett is a common bounty hunter. How he acquired that armour is beyond me." - Prime Minister Almec of Mandalore.

Pretty much a canon reference and according to some, insisted upon by George Lucas.

Even Filoni won't put it in concrete for some wierd reason: Star Wars - Age of the Republic (2019) - Jango Fett link

Dave Filoni explained in a behind-the-scenes featurette for The Clone Wars about creating Mandalore. “There was this early assumption that Jango must be a Mandalorian… He’s always just referred to as a bounty hunter [in Attack of the Clones.]” Jango claims to be from the Mandalorian planet Concord Dawn, but whether this is true remains to be seen. At the very least, the Prime Minister of Mandalore dismissed him as just being a “common bounty hunter” when Obi-Wan brought him up

It's wierd how he won't commit and just says "but whether this is true remains to be seen". So it's like he wants to keep the option open.

In his recent videos, Filoni comes across as having a lot of respect for the fans of Mandalorians so I'd guess he'll be wanting to give them and their opinions on the matter some sort of nod in the future.

Tony EH

Slydice wrote: »

Even Filoni won't put it in concrete for some wierd reason: Star Wars - Age of the Republic (2019) - Jango Fett link


It's wierd how he won't commit and just says "but whether this is true remains to be seen". So it's like he wants to keep the option open.

In his recent videos, Filoni comes across as having a lot of respect for the fans of Mandalorians so I'd guess he'll be wanting to give them and their opinions on the matter some sort of nod in the future.

That sounds little more than Disney wanting to have their cake and eating it really. So, until they write something, the sentence in 'The Clone Wars' stands.

In any case, to be honest, I don't really care. If at some point things are reversed and Fett is suddenly Mandalorian, it's not something I'll give much thought to.

Padre_Pio

Slydice wrote: »

Yeah but I didn't know scientology had "Volunteer Ministers" until I looked up their version of priests for that post.

Similarly, very few people in Ireland would've known much about the IMF until they came into town when then property bubble popped last decade.

Maybe, I'd equate them more to military generals tho, like Patton, Montgomery, Rommel etc.
They all led missions during the Clone Wars, commanded legions, freed planets. But more than a bunch accountants or fringe religious nuts. That said most people would be aware of L Ron Hubbard and David Miscavidge.

if Scientologists or the IMF had actual telekinesis people would be more aware of them.

Slydice

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Maybe, I'd equate them more to military generals tho.
They all led missions during the Clone Wars.

if Scientologists or the IMF had actual telekinesis people would be more aware of them.

I haven't a notion of one single Chinese or Russian general out there at the moment. I could maybe hazily guess at a memory of one or two US generals.

Tony EH wrote: »

That sounds little more than Disney wanting to have their cake and eating it really. So, until they write something, the sentence in 'The Clone Wars' stands.

In any case, to be honest, I don't really care. If at some point things are reversed and Fett is suddenly Mandalorian, it's not something I'll give much thought to.

Yep, I don't think if they go one way or the other, it would be the making or breaking of the story around it.