Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

lawred2

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Someone like what? Do you know the circumstances of everyone who is long term unemployed. FFS it's only one extra weeks payment at the most expensive time of the year. If you are unhappy quit your job next year you'll just about qualify.

get a job then

Samsgirl

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Based on this thread people working are even worse off than those on the dole though.

Must be an awful lot of employers paying below minimum wage.

That's not the issue. It's the fact that we get nothing for free. We have to pay for everything out of our earned money. I get paid €648 a fortnight. Out of that I pay for fuel to drive to/from work. After school costs for two children and my share of the mortgage. Also tax and insurance etc for the car.

I work 38 hrs a week, including every second Saturday. On the Dole I would get €400 a fortnight but wouldn't have any of those costs and more associated with it.

So it's not that I'm being paid minimum wage (public sector worker). It's that I get no handouts and have to fund everything myself. That's the issue.

Wanderer78

Samsgirl wrote: »

That's not the issue. It's the fact that we get nothing for free. We have to pay for everything out of our earned money. I get paid €648 a fortnight. Out of that I pay for fuel to drive to/from work. After school costs for two children and my share of the mortgage. Also tax and insurance etc for the car.

I work 38 hrs a week, including every second Saturday. On the Dole I would get €400 a fortnight but wouldn't have any of those costs and more associated with it.

So it's not that I'm being paid minimum wage (public sector worker). It's that I get no handouts and have to fund everything myself. That's the issue.

or maybe the cost of living is extremely high, particularly your housing needs?

Samsgirl

Wanderer78 wrote: »

or maybe the cost of living is extremely high, particularly your housing needs?

No, I don't agree with that at all. I have a modest house and two children. We don't spend beyond our means. The problem is as I have already said, we get no breaks.

super_furry

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I don't get the big fuss over the Christmas bonus. Instead of the weekly dole being 198 with the bonus it works out at around 201 if it were divided up throughout the year. It's not exactly a massive amount extra being paid for people to be worked up about.

Yeah but it's another chance for the Renua touting nutters and the miserablists and malcontents of After Hours to have a go at people on social welfare.

Wanderer78

Samsgirl wrote: »

No, I don't agree with that at all. I have a modest house and two children. We don't spend beyond our means. The problem is as I have already said, we get no breaks.

research shows otherwise, research shows, there has been very low wage inflation and rapid asset price inflation, particularly over the last couple of decades, in what some call, the age of 'financialisation'. in the real world this means, house prices have rapidly risen but pay hasnt risen fast enough to accommodate this rise, hence the creation of the 'squeezed middle'

Samsgirl

Wanderer78 wrote: »

research shows otherwise, research shows, there has been very low wage inflation and rapid asset price inflation, particularly over the last couple of decades, in what some call, the age of 'financialisation'. in the real world this means, house prices have rapidly risen but pay hasnt risen fast enough to accommodate this rise, hence the creation of the 'squeezed middle'

Again, not the issue. Issue is people getting free money, bonus for doing nothing and having no incentive to work

Wanderer78

Samsgirl wrote: »

Again, not the issue. Issue is people getting free money, bonus for doing nothing and having no incentive to work

disagree of course, i ll stick with the research and empirical evidence, theres also no such thing as free money. many academics have been writing about this for a long time now, some knew the crash of 2008 was on the way prior to it due to this reality.

super_furry

Samsgirl wrote: »

Again, not the issue. Issue is people getting free money, bonus for doing nothing and having no incentive to work

Why you don't swap places with them then?

You could stop working, lose your home, go on the social housing list, be moved into a hotel with your kids miles from where you are and sit around on the housing for a decade or so.

The grass isn't always greener and you seem to be doing alright for yourself, own your own house and have kids that are doing well. Be happy with that and focus less on what other people are getting for 'free', it's a nicer way to live your life.

Kivaro

super_furry wrote: »

Yeah but it's another chance for the Renua touting nutters and the miserablists and malcontents of After Hours to have a go at people on social welfare.

Same crap from you again.
You obviously haven't read the thread.

Where's the ignore button ....................
Ah, found it.

TallGlass

On one of the points above. I never understood, why as a PAYE worker why I cannot claim back my some of my work expenses, like tolls, fuel, insurance and lunches etc..

If I could do this and opt out of PAYE I would they should look at adjusting the PAYE system it's far to rigid and would give alot of workers room to move. My costs for getting to work are fairly high, some help in this area would be appreciated.

Samsgirl

super_furry wrote: »

Why you don't swap places with them then?

You could stop working, lose your home, go on the social housing list, be moved into a hotel with your kids miles from where you are and sit around on the housing for a decade or so.

The grass isn't always greener and you seem to be doing alright for yourself, own your own house and have kids that are doing well. Be happy with that and focus less on what other people are getting for 'free', it's a nicer way to live your life.

Might have to try it. Sounds like it could be the way to go. Would I get my fuel allowance though if I was in a hotel. Would I be 'entitled' to it anyhow?

Wanderer78

TallGlass wrote: »

On one of the points above. I never understood, why as a PAYE worker why I cannot claim back my some of my work expenses, like tolls, fuel, insurance and lunches etc..

If I could do this and opt out of PAYE I would they should look at adjusting the PAYE system it's far to rigid and would give alot of workers room to move. My costs for getting to work are fairly high, some help in this area would be appreciated.

wealth extraction maybe?

Samsgirl

Wanderer78 wrote: »

disagree of course, i ll stick with the research and empirical evidence, theres also no such thing as free money. many academics have been writing about this for a long time now, some knew the crash of 2008 was on the way prior to it due to this reality.

If you get something without earning it it's free

Wanderer78

Samsgirl wrote: »

If you get something without earning it it's free

not necessarily, its important to realise, most people pay some sort of taxes in society, including the unemployed, in the form of consumption taxes etc

Assetbacked

The government should lower the income tax rate by 20% for one month in solidarity with the workers.

Wanderer78

Assetbacked wrote: »

The government should lower the income tax rate by 20% for one month in solidarity with the workers.

or increase taxation on capital such as corporation taxes and capital transactions?

YFlyer

Hitman3000 wrote: »

92,000 long-term unemployed. An extra weeks payment at Christmas will be great for retailers. Multiplier effect and all that. I don't begrudge them it. Expensive time of year plus it's hard to feel anger when I know I'll be getting a nice bonus from work as I have done since started in my present job.
Anyway guys to those that wish to bash away at the recipients I'm sure you'll feel better for it. ;-)

Hahaha

wonski

TallGlass wrote: »

On one of the points above. I never understood, why as a PAYE worker why I cannot claim back my some of my work expenses, like tolls, fuel, insurance and lunches etc..

If I could do this and opt out of PAYE I would they should look at adjusting the PAYE system it's far to rigid and would give alot of workers room to move. My costs for getting to work are fairly high, some help in this area would be appreciated.

Well we actually do.

Tax credits are very generous compared to other countries. They have been cut over last few years (rent tax credit etc), but still relatively good, especially for low earners.

There should be additional tax credit for people commuting over certain distance imo, but we get what we get.

YFlyer

Agricola wrote: »

I think the frequency of these tiresome threads is a very good barometer of the economic success of the country.
We must be booming.

Yes and everyone should go on the gravy train.

Assetbacked

Wanderer78 wrote: »

or increase taxation on capital such as corporation taxes and capital transactions?

Introducing a commercial property tax to target large multinationals in cities which pay an effective rate of zero percent corporate tax is an easy one. It may even encourage them not to be based so close to the city centres, thus alleviating the demand for rental accommodation in prime areas.

Wanderer78

Assetbacked wrote: »

Introducing a commercial property tax to target large multinationals which pay an effective rate of zero percent corporate tax is an easy one.

im starting to jump on the 'land value tax' bus, although i know fcuk all about it

Babooshka

Samsgirl wrote: »

Again, not the issue. Issue is people getting free money, bonus for doing nothing and having no incentive to work

I think it's a case of both to be honest

Assetbacked

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im starting to jump on the 'land value tax' bus, although i know fcuk all about it

It makes sense and if people cannot pay then they should move on and compete on a level playing field with everyone who does not own property and struggles with affordability.

David McWilliams had an interesting article on it in the IT recently;

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-want-to-fix-the-housing-crisis-tax-land-1.3301128

To bolster the argument that a land tax should be introduced, see this quote which shows just how much wealth is tied up in land and property;

"This week, a report suggested that the top 1 per cent in Ireland owns 33 per cent of the country’s wealth and that 90 per cent of the country’s wealth is held in land and property. Reading this, I couldn’t help thinking of the Japanese and their land tax."

Sardonicat

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Ellianna Mushy Body wrote: »

Didn't know that. That's very unfair I think.

Its disgraceful .
Lets say you worked for 10 years and paid taxes etc . For some reason you worked less or on a low wage €200-€300 in 2016 . Now in 2018 you sign on and your PRSI from 2016 is the one they take into account
Your amount is reduced now to €155 becuase of low wage in 2016 regardless of what you earned any other year
The one on long term in the meantime is still on €198 as they are not assessed on an income in 2016

They actually give you the option if claiming JSA at the higher amount if you fall into this catagory.

topper75

Kivaro wrote: »

I'm in total agreement with this.
It needs to be a living wage .... and more.

There is also the philosophical issue, which I believe will eventually tear this world apart, of the unequal distribution of wealth. I'm not talking about the Marxist notion of wealth distribution, but more of the "practical" aspect of distributing wealth. Otherwise, we are going to have a planetary sheettstorm in a teacup very soon ........ and it ain't goin' to be pretty.

Perhaps you are talking about access to wealth.

In that respect I share your future fears.

Speaking of Marx, what is funny here (peculiar not haha) is that Marxist teaching was about failure to give LABOUR its due.

Our authorities however don't care as much as they might about labour or as Marx called them the proletariat, as much as they care about transfer of funds to NON-labour aka "the vulnerable" or as Marx himself called them - the lumpen proletariat. I don't think he gave a monkeys about them and he was right in that respect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat

I'm just pointing this curious anomaly out - I'm not a Marxist.

The winners in the Irish game are the high end elite and the dole gamers. Sadly that won't change. Workers are too busy for revolution.

Carlos Orange

Try_harder wrote: »

Almost all of the money goes straight back into the economy so its a double win

How about we cut out the middle men and I put my own money into the economy directly without it passing through the government.

Danzy

Renua aren't an option,just the PDs rebranded.

Remember them, the party that kept people like Liam Lawlor,Ray Burke,Bertie Ahern in power.

That oversaw an orgy of corruption in the economy and an economic collapse.


They offer nothing but the same.

eagle eye

Hitman3000 wrote:

Someone like what? Do you know the circumstances of everyone who is long term unemployed. FFS it's only one extra weeks payment at the most expensive time of the year. If you are unhappy quit your job next year you'll just about qualify.

I often looked at the figures and if I wanted to be a waster I'd be down around €100 per week after all expenses are taken out of my paycheck that I wouldn't have if I didn't work.
Social welfare weekly payments for a husband, wife and one child is around €360 per week I believe. You get your rent paid for you which would be close to €200 per week in my case.
My car fuel and meal expenses average out at €120 per week.
I'm not a low earner, there are a lot of people out there earning a lot less than me.
We are more entitled to a Christmas bonus than some guy that has been sitting on his backside for 12 months or more.
I'd nearly be tempted to go on the 'jobseekers'
I could see every sport event like every world cup match when it's on, the Olympics, the Rugby world cup and everything else too. Watch movies during the day, quiz shows and I might even start watching the soaps!
I'd never be struggling to find time to cut the lawn and keep the garden and house in good shape.
I could get involved and help out with my son's sports teams as I'd have so much time on my hands.

cgcsb

Reason #1 why we can't have decent public services. In Spain, housing, health care, public transport, sustainable energy investment, waste collection and recycling, cleaning/maintenance of public spaces etc. is top class, very modern and super dependable. This is in spite of having similar taxation to Ireland and half the youth being unemployed. Also corruption in Spain would make Charles Haughey blush, yet all these things get done properly, they even have high speed rail across the country and fares on public transport in the Cities rarely exceed €2. Spain's secret: they don't pay dole to someone who's gone a year or more without a job. What dole they do pay is minimal and just survivable. In Ireland the #1 priority is providing dole heads with a middle class lifestyle, it needs to change.

At a minimum the Christmas bonus should only be for one year and only for short term claimants. The additional allowances also need to stop. I see 'communion allowance' is scrapped, thankfully. Rent allowance also needs to be banned entirely, build social homes instead.

sick to death of dole threads on here I’m happy the old people and disabled people & vulnerable will be getting it

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

sick to death of dole threads on here I’m happy the old people and disabled people & vulnerable will be getting it

Try being sick to death of working all the hours God sends and getting screwed for it instead.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Try bring sick to death of working all the hours God sends and getting screwed for it instead.

Go on the dole then

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

Go on the dole then

Ah would that I could but I have these pesky things called self respect and a work ethic. Rules me out.

super_furry

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ah would that I could but I have these pesky things called self respect and a work ethic. Rules me out.

Well then the only thing to do in that case is to keep whinging on the internet.

ELM327

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Try being sick to death of working all the hours God sends and getting screwed for it instead.

+1

Deleted User wrote: »

Go on the dole then

Some of us have personal responsibility enshrined in us from parents that worked too.


Or just personal pride. I was on the dole for approx 10 months in 2009 and it nearly killed me with depression.

Kivaro

cgcsb wrote: »

In Ireland the #1 priority is providing dole heads with a middle class lifestyle, it needs to change.

And that's the main issue.
The professional dole recipients not only want the financial "entitlements" from the welfare system, they also want/demand "social" housing too. They get more money than a lot of working people, and with the billions being spent on social housing, they will also get state-of-the-art brand new houses/apartments with new appliances/furniture/flooring etc.
They are becoming more middle class than the working middle class themselves with zero contribution.

It just ain't right. Vive la révolution!

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

+1

Some of us have personal responsibility enshrined in us from parents that worked too.


Or just personal pride. I was on the dole for approx 10 months in 2009 and it nearly killed me with depression.

you should live with mental health issues indefinitely

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you should live with mental health issues indefinitely

I do.
I have severe social anxiety, ASD (Asperger's), ODD, issues with emotional regulation but to name a few.
And the odd bout of depression thrown in.

super_furry

ELM327 wrote: »

I do.
I have severe social anxiety, ASD (Asperger's), ODD, issues with emotional regulation but to name a few.
And the odd bout of depression thrown in.

Well fair play to you for being able to hold down a job with all that happening. That's a serious achievement and you're doing really well, you should be proud.

But, not everyone is able to cope as well as you are.

Graces7

Kivaro wrote: »

And that's the main issue.
The professional dole recipients not only want the financial "entitlements" from the welfare system, they also want/demand "social" housing too. They get more money than a lot of working people, and with the billions being spent on social housing, they will also get state-of-the-art brand new houses/apartments with new appliances/furniture/flooring etc.
They are becoming more middle class than the working middle class themselves with zero contribution.

It just ain't right. Vive la révolution!

you need to check on that not true

TallGlass

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you should live with mental health issues indefinitely

Easy. If youve ever worked in a customer facing role, it comes with the job.

PlaneSpeeking

TallGlass wrote: »

Easy. If youve ever worked in a customer facing role, it comes with the job.

Students!

On my death certificate on cause of death it will be "Students" and everyone will get it!

TallGlass

Graces7 wrote: »

you need to check on that not true

It is. You get a grant for fitting out your apartment or house from the council. Friend of mine got it 3k I think it was. I know this cause I was with him when he got the stuff and I installed most of it and put down the floor!

eagle eye

ELM327 wrote:

Or just personal pride. I was on the dole for approx 10 months in 2009 and it nearly killed me with depression.

Hope you had the medical card to deal with that depression. Just another bonus of the Irish social welfare system!

Idbatterim

Why the insane obsession with buying off the parasites though? To FU*K with hiking jsa or jsb! As if that lot in most cases, would vote fg! I will laugh when the worker on 30,000k gets another e1.50 a week back in usc cut while the wasters get e5 plus another e200 off well deserved bonus = roughly e9 a week! a multiple of roughly six that the worker gets ! W!T!F if this happens this budget, any debate over fg being a pro worker or enterprise party are redundant and should be considered trolling!

ELM327

eagle eye wrote: »

Hope you had the medical card to deal with that depression. Just another bonus of the Irish social welfare system!

No, you don't get a medical card unless you are on the non contribution based JSA. I was on JSB based on my PRSI stamps and on it for less than one year so didnt get any benefit like medical card, rent allowance, etc

Dakota Dan

If anyone mentions drivers using their fog lights in no fog on here they’ll be told it’s done to death and the thread is killed off but dole bashing threads keep coming without conflict.

ELM327

super_furry wrote: »

Well fair play to you for being able to hold down a job with all that happening. That's a serious achievement and you're doing really well, you should be proud.

But, not everyone is able to cope as well as you are.

Bull sh1t.

I'm nothing special (and as someone who also has narcissistic personality disorder that's not easy to say )
The only difference is me not being willing to live a life of handouts. If I can do it there's no excuse for any neurotypical person.

ELM327

Dakota Dan wrote: »

If anyone mentions drivers using their fog lights in no fog on here they’ll be told it’s done to death and the thread is killed off but dole bashing threads keep coming without conflict.

If you've an issue with dole bashing threads, get a job, simples.
We have full employment now, no excuse for not having a job.