Why or how did you decide to emigrate?

LegacyUser

I have been toying with the idea of moving back to the Netherlands for many many years. I lived there until my 15th and truly loved it. Both myself and my girlfriend are thinking of making a move, however, there are a number of pros and cons associated with the move. How do you make the final decision?

Pros
- We love the Netherlands: people, biking, architecture, food snacks, transport links, how clean it is.
- Similar cost of living if not slightly less to Ireland (Dublin) where we live.
- Our cash deposit for a house in Ireland goes a longer way in the Netherlands, our mortgage would be small or could be repaid much quicker. One of us could probably work part time and mind future kids.
- Houses in Ireland are significantly overpriced at the moment. I believe there is a similar problem emerging in Holland but it's still good value for us.
- We are both professionals (finance + architecture) with good work experience in Ireland. Our skills are reasonably transferable to the Dutch market.
- I am fluent (although rusty) in Dutch.
- We have some friends and family (uncle and aunt) already there.
- Dutch people value work life balance more than Irish.

Cons
- There is a risk career wise that we might be taking a step back as we are both well established professionally (permanent jobs) in Ireland.
- Have good salaries in Ireland with perks such as: pensions, health, life insurance.
- Having to re-establish yourself again socially and professionally.
- My girlfriend does not speak Dutch (but is willing to learn). English is widely spoken.
- We are both 35 and are hoping to start a family in 2-3 years. We won't be able to start as easily as in Ireland (maternity, paternity leave etc.).
- Close family living in Ireland and Poland. With Ryanair it's not so much of a con, however, long distance babysitting might be an issue.

In general, our life in Ireland is good. We've come to the point in our lives where we are deciding/looking to buy a house and settle down in Ireland. I suppose there is a certain "fear" in the back of my mind that the opportunity of returning to Holland is no longer an option once we settle here in Ireland.

There are many other questions and I'm curious to hear how others made the decision to pack your bags, move to Holland and not look back?

Ursus Horribilis

Have you tried asking in the Living Abroad forum here on boards? https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=213 You'll have a better chance of getting answers from people who've made that leap.

wiggle16

Agreed. Thread moved - new charter applies

Thanks Ursus. I'd no idea this forum existed.

Tell me how

ToMoveOrNot wrote:

There are many other questions and I'm curious to hear how others made the decision to pack your bags, move to Holland and not look back?

OP, sorry to not have any actual concrete advice but I am in a similar position.
Am currently debating moving to the US for a year, or somewhere in Europe or UK for longer period.

Find for every question I ask and answer myself about making the decision, I get 3 more "What ifs" that make it complicated.

What I might suggest is that you don't think about it being a permanent move wrt to house buying etc. Just say that you are trying it for 6 months to a year and that you'll then review and consider longer term.

This approach might make it less of an all or nothing gamble.

noveltea

I moved to Canada four years ago with my husband. I am in my 30s. What made it easier to move was that we both got career breaks from our jobs in Ireland and if Canada did not work out for us, we always had the job to come back too. Maybe check does your job offer that.

One of the cons as you pointed out is having to re-establish yourself with work and social life. I found I had to work at a lower level than what I was in order to get a job initially and you really do have to throw yourself out there to make friends. You really have to make local friends too as Irish will leave.

One thing I find,the longer you are away the harder it is to move home, as it's like establishing yourself at home again.

Not sure does that really answer your question but it's what I found hard initially.

Brian?

I moved to the Netherlands about 5 weeks ago. I moved because I was offered a better job. My wife gave up work to support this and be a stay at home mother, which she’s delighted with as the kids are still young.

Big pro for the Netherlands for me is the 30% ruling for income tax. I’m a skilled immigrant, working in technology. Do you qualify for that?

The cost of living seems to be about equal with Ireland for most things. Cars are more expensive, but property and beer are cheaper. I’m in Eindhoven and he city is unbelievably well organized.

NSAman

Why? Better opportunity. Openness of ideas compared with the closed thinking in Ireland. The chance to progress more quickly. The thoughts of change in life and the ability to adapt and try something new.

How? Got a job, threw caution to the wind.

Results: Better lifestyle and a complete group of new great friends. A job I love.

I am lucky and admit it. For the first year or two it was hard. Misssing everyone at home. However, coming home was less of an arduous question once you realize that nothing changes here. People do not tend to do much out of the ordinary anywhere. Yes, people get married (that is what planes are for) and have babies. The hardest time and something that really was and still is difficult is parents. When a parent dies it is damned awful. Worrying about parent(s) especially as they get older for me is the hard part. The phone helps but is no substitute for a hug or being there.

You HAVE to become part of a new community. You HAVE to make new friends and put yourself out there, not just with the local Irish people but with the community in general.

It is not to be taken lightly and is not for everyone. Becoming accustomed to new norms and a new society where things change dramatically is not easy. You will either love it or hate it.

Then there is the ‘return’ issue. To come back or not. Personally, I have already made plans to return in another 5-10 years. I still retain my friends in Ireland. I have introduced my friends here to Ireland.

My advice: if you feel it is for you try it. You only live once. You will always wonder what if.. if you don’t try it.

airportgirl83

Brian? wrote: »

I moved to the Netherlands about 5 weeks ago. I moved because I was offered a better job. My wife gave up work to support this and be a stay at home mother, which she’s delighted with as the kids are still young.

Big pro for the Netherlands for me is the 30% ruling for income tax. I’m a skilled immigrant, working in technology. Do you qualify for that?

The cost of living seems to be about equal with Ireland for most things. Cars are more expensive, but property and beer are cheaper. I’m in Eindhoven and he city is unbelievably well organized.

How do you find living in the Netherlands?

airportgirl83

NSAman wrote: »

Why? Better opportunity. Openness of ideas compared with the closed thinking in Ireland. The chance to progress more quickly. The thoughts of change in life and the ability to adapt and try something new.

How? Got a job, threw caution to the wind.

Results: Better lifestyle and a complete group of new great friends. A job I love.

I am lucky and admit it. For the first year or two it was hard. Misssing everyone at home. However, coming home was less of an arduous question once you realize that nothing changes here. People do not tend to do much out of the ordinary anywhere. Yes, people get married (that is what planes are for) and have babies. The hardest time and something that really was and still is difficult is parents. When a parent dies it is damned awful. Worrying about parent(s) especially as they get older for me is the hard part. The phone helps but is no substitute for a hug or being there.

You HAVE to become part of a new community. You HAVE to make new friends and put yourself out there, not just with the local Irish people but with the community in general.

It is not to be taken lightly and is not for everyone. Becoming accustomed to new norms and a new society where things change dramatically is not easy. You will either love it or hate it.

Then there is the ‘return’ issue. To come back or not. Personally, I have already made plans to return in another 5-10 years. I still retain my friends in Ireland. I have introduced my friends here to Ireland.

My advice: if you feel it is for you try it. You only live once. You will always wonder what if.. if you don’t try it.

Where did you move if I may ask?

Brian?

airportgirl83 wrote: »

How do you find living in the Netherlands?

Great so far. Are you thinking of moving here? I can be more specific, but I don’t regret the move at all so far.

airportgirl83

Brian? wrote: »

Great so far. Are you thinking of moving here? I can be more specific, but I don’t regret the move at all so far.

I'm the OP girlfriend. If we move, we would move to Rotterdam where my BF is originally from.

We've been to the Netherlands many times and I can actually see ourselves living there.

I think that the only thing that stops us is my job. I've been working for my employer for over 10 years, it's a great place with good salary and benefits. Even though I haven't been enjoying my work too much recently, it is hard to let go of that...security. I also know how hard it can be establishing yourself in the new country, I came to Ireland myself almost 12 years ago.

Brian?

airportgirl83 wrote: »

I'm the OP girlfriend. If we move, we would move to Rotterdam where my BF is originally from.

We've been to the Netherlands many times and I can actually see ourselves living there.

I think that the only thing that stops us is my job. I've been working for my employer for over 10 years, it's a great place with good salary and benefits. Even though I haven't been enjoying my work too much recently, it is hard to let go of that...security. I also know how hard it can be establishing yourself in the new country, I came to Ireland myself almost 12 years ago.

Ah ok. Are you searching for jobs in the Netherlands? I wouldn’t move before I got one, or at least one of you does.

I left a company with unreal benefits after 18 years. I know exactly how you feel.

airportgirl83

Brian? wrote: »

Ah ok. Are you searching for jobs in the Netherlands? I wouldn’t move before I got one, or at least one of you does.

I left a company with unreal benefits after 18 years. I know exactly how you feel.

Oh wow! Was it a difficult decision to make?

My BF is searching and it looks like he should be ok as there are many architectural firms looking for people specialising in what he does He's fluent in English and Dutch which also helps a lot.

I had a look myself and until I learn Dutch, it looks like I'll have to stick to multinational companies that speak English and recognise ACCA qualification (if I want to stick to finance jobs).

It's really a decision time for us as we found our perfect house the other day - it ticks almost all our boxes and we are still not sure if that's what we want.

My heart tells me that maybe we should wait with buying a house in Ireland (there will always be another house) and explore moving to Holland properly by contacting recruitment agencies and finding out about our options.

NSAman

airportgirl83 wrote: »

Where did you move if I may ask?

The middle of nowhere USA... and I love it! You seem much younger than I, This is my third time to move abroad in my life. I did Europe before and Africa.

Needless to say, one thing it does do if it is for you... those damned itchy feet never stop itching...

Brian?

airportgirl83 wrote: »

Oh wow! Was it a difficult decision to make?

My BF is searching and it looks like he should be ok as there are many architectural firms looking for people specialising in what he does He's fluent in English and Dutch which also helps a lot.

I had a look myself and until I learn Dutch, it looks like I'll have to stick to multinational companies that speak English and recognise ACCA qualification (if I want to stick to finance jobs).

It's really a decision time for us as we found our perfect house the other day - it ticks almost all our boxes and we are still not sure if that's what we want.

My heart tells me that maybe we should wait with buying a house in Ireland (there will always be another house) and explore moving to Holland properly by contacting recruitment agencies and finding out about our options.

That’s a tough one. Mine was s very hard decision, but I’m glad I did it.

If you do decide to move. I definitely recommend Eindhoven.

engiweirdo

Is learning Dutch an absolute must? I'm contacted about twice a week offering work in various parts of the Netherlands. Decent salaries and even often accommodation included. Fearful of it though as we have a daughter with dyspraxia who would really struggle with Dutch and couldn't afford international schools. At the same time am only hitting dead ends looking for work in Ireland and absolutely priced out of moving to Dublin/Cork.

Brian?

engiweirdo wrote: »

Is learning Dutch an absolute must? I'm contacted about twice a week offering work in various parts of the Netherlands. Decent salaries and even often accommodation included. Fearful of it though as we have a daughter with dysplasia who would really struggle with Dutch and couldn't afford international schools. At the same time am only hitting dead ends looking for work in Ireland and absolutely priced out of moving to Dublin/Cork.

There are schools that teach in English with the idea of integrating kids into Dutch schools slowly. I know people here 8-10 years who can’t speak Dutch. Everyone speaks English

airportgirl83

engiweirdo wrote: »

Is learning Dutch an absolute must? I'm contacted about twice a week offering work in various parts of the Netherlands. Decent salaries and even often accommodation included. Fearful of it though as we have a daughter with dysplasia who would really struggle with Dutch and couldn't afford international schools. At the same time am only hitting dead ends looking for work in Ireland and absolutely priced out of moving to Dublin/Cork.

Based on my experience and what my BF tells me everyone speaks very good English, however, they would often switch to Dutch as soon as they can.

I would like to learn Dutch to properly integrate, understand culture and people.

Also, some jobs require fluency in Dutch, depends on the profession I guess.

NSAman

airportgirl83 wrote: »

Bases on my experience and what my BF tells me everyone speaks very good English, however, they would often switch to Dutch as soon as they can.

I would like to learn Dutch to properly integrate, understand culture and people.

Also, some jobs require fluency in Dutch, depends on the profession I guess.

Learning the language is key to any move. I will say, if you are surrounded by a language it is much easier to learn. Not to mention the benefits later, language skills..;)

Like you I was ACCA (amongst other qualifications). You know yourself not only are you able to read and prepare accounts, that also allows you into other areas if you so wish. Best qualification I ever gained, I was an accountant in Ireland, currently i work in a multinational role of management/company development.

wexie

airportgirl83 wrote: »

I would like to learn Dutch to properly integrate, understand culture and people.

Grammatically it's not an overly complicated language, the pronunciation could be a bit hard as there are several sounds and letter combinations that don't really exist in English.

One of my friends picked up an awful lot from watching the Simpsons in Holland. There's a lot of TV that is either American or English with Dutch subtitles which helps with the learning.

The one thing I always hear though (from my wife) is that it's really hard to practice there as all Dutch people love showing off their English so as soon as they catch a whif of an accent they'll start speaking English

Brian?

wexie wrote: »

Grammatically it's not an overly complicated language, the pronunciation could be a bit hard as there are several sounds and letter combinations that don't really exist in English.

One of my friends picked up an awful lot from watching the Simpsons in Holland. There's a lot of TV that is either American or English with Dutch subtitles which helps with the learning.

The one thing I always hear though (from my wife) is that it's really hard to practice there as all Dutch people love showing off their English so as soon as they catch a whif of an accent they'll start speaking English

Yep. I had a load of stock phrases learned when I arrived. Mainly from duolingo. I butchered them so badly, everyone immediately spoke English. Now I don’t bother.

I’m owed Dutch lessons by the company though, so I’ll do those and see how I get on.

airportgirl83

NSAman wrote: »

Learning the language is key to any move. I will say, if you are surrounded by a language it is much easier to learn. Not to mention the benefits later, language skills..;)

Like you I was ACCA (amongst other qualifications). You know yourself not only are you able to read and prepare accounts, that also allows you into other areas if you so wish. Best qualification I ever gained, I was an accountant in Ireland, currently i work in a multinational role of management/company development.

Thank you for your comment. It made me realise that the reason why I decided to do ACCA was so that I can work almost anywhere in the world. Needed someone to remind me of that

airportgirl83

wexie wrote: »

Grammatically it's not an overly complicated language, the pronunciation could be a bit hard as there are several sounds and letter combinations that don't really exist in English.

One of my friends picked up an awful lot from watching the Simpsons in Holland. There's a lot of TV that is either American or English with Dutch subtitles which helps with the learning.

The one thing I always hear though (from my wife) is that it's really hard to practice there as all Dutch people love showing off their English so as soon as they catch a whif of an accent they'll start speaking English

I was told that once I master how to pronunce 'Scheveningen' we're moving! Getting there slowly :P

wexie

airportgirl83 wrote: »

I was told that once I master how to pronunce 'Scheveningen' we're moving! Getting there slowly :P

That one's easy!!

Try angstschreeuw or herfststukje

(Neither are words you're likely to need often thankfully)

irishman86

Brian? wrote: »

There are schools that teach in English with the idea of integrating kids into Dutch schools slowly. I know people here 8-10 years who can’t speak Dutch. Everyone speaks English

Its the exact same for me here in Argentina.
I asked why everyone speaks english and ive been told its surprising for someone under 35 not to

rosmoke

Moved to Dublin from Bucharest with wife 6 years ago. I had a startup there and was doing alright, was invited here by family, and gave it a shot. Now almost finished a 4 years IT degree. Good money, but detest every day spent here and can't wait to move somewhere else.

I've a friend who moved here in Jan for 84k, a month ago signed for 125k here and next Saturday he moves to Switzerland for 10.800E a month after tax, and rented an apartment with 1000e a month with a pool in the complex...

I wouldn't even move for the money at this point, I'd move for weather, easy access to other countries, better houses, better transport infrastructure, more outdoor activities.

NSAman

rosmoke wrote: »

Moved to Dublin from Bucharest with wife 6 years ago. I had a startup there and was doing alright, was invited here by family, and gave it a shot. Now almost finished a 4 years IT degree. Good money, but detest every day spent here and can't wait to move somewhere else.

I've a friend who moved here in Jan for 84k, a month ago signed for 125k here and next Saturday he moves to Switzerland for 10.800E a month after tax, and rented an apartment with 1000e a month with a pool in the complex...

I wouldn't even move for the money at this point, I'd move for weather, easy access to other countries, better houses, better transport infrastructure, more outdoor activities.

The poor sod, having to live with the Swiss...;)

Each to their own my friend. As I said before, not every country is suitable for every person. I have been in countries that I absolutely hated and been dirt poor (paywise) in countries that I loved... I ain’t all about money

airportgirl83

rosmoke wrote: »

Moved to Dublin from Bucharest with wife 6 years ago. I had a startup there and was doing alright, was invited here by family, and gave it a shot. Now almost finished a 4 years IT degree. Good money, but detest every day spent here and can't wait to move somewhere else.

I've a friend who moved here in Jan for 84k, a month ago signed for 125k here and next Saturday he moves to Switzerland for 10.800E a month after tax, and rented an apartment with 1000e a month with a pool in the complex...

I wouldn't even move for the money at this point, I'd move for weather, easy access to other countries, better houses, better transport infrastructure, more outdoor activities.

We know we might be paid less in Holland tbh as we are on very good salaries at the moment. It doesn't bother us as in return we would be getting a lifestyle that we want. It's definitely not all about money

Brian?

airportgirl83 wrote: »

We know we might be paid less in Holland tbh as we are on very good salaries at the moment. It doesn't bother us as in return we would be getting a lifestyle that we want. It's definitely not all about money

Did you check out if you qualify for the 30% rule? That makes a huge difference.

Danzy

The hoods in Fianna Fáil decided for me.

Danzy

airportgirl83 wrote: »

Oh wow! Was it a difficult decision to make?

My BF is searching and it looks like he should be ok as there are many architectural firms looking for people specialising in what he does He's fluent in English and Dutch which also helps a lot.

I had a look myself and until I learn Dutch, it looks like I'll have to stick to multinational companies that speak English and recognise ACCA qualification (if I want to stick to finance jobs).

It's really a decision time for us as we found our perfect house the other day - it ticks almost all our boxes and we are still not sure if that's what we want.

My heart tells me that maybe we should wait with buying a house in Ireland (there will always be another house) and explore moving to Holland properly by contacting recruitment agencies and finding out about our options.

If you can look at the Un and patents office, always eager for people and insane wages.