Why or how did you decide to emigrate?

Tuesday_Girl

While the vast majority of people will speak English very well, it's well worth while learning Dutch and being able to fully integrate into society. It's not the easiest of languages but I started classes the week I arrived and I could hold a conversation within six months and was fluent within two years. It makes life much better when you can chat to your neighbours, easily make Dutch friends, go to Dutch theatre and filmes, etc. 
I lived there for 17 years and while I'm happily living back in Ireland now I loved it there and still go back regularly to see friends. I was lucky to avail of the 35% ruling for ten years, think it's 30% now for five years. Buying and renting are cheaper then Ireland, particularly outside of Amsterdam, and general cost of living is also quite comparable or in some cases cheaper.  Infrastructure, public transport and other services are excellent compared to Ireland and of course you have all of Europe on your doorstep. I'd advise anyone considering it to just do it. I moved over for a one year contract and it took me 17 years to leave..

Tuesday_Girl

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/irish-emigrants-mental-health-i-lost-my-charisma-my-social-skills-my-confidence-1.3657102

airportgirl83

Tuesday_Girl wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/irish-emigrants-mental-health-i-lost-my-charisma-my-social-skills-my-confidence-1.3657102

Intresting read. Mathew from the article was his own problem but also his own solution if that makes sense.

It takes few years to get used to the new life for sure. It took me 4-5 years to get used to my life in Ireland. Things get better with time.

nozzferrahhtoo

ToMoveOrNot wrote: »

I have been toying with the idea of moving back to the Netherlands for many many years. I lived there until my 15th and truly loved it. Both myself and my girlfriend are thinking of making a move, however, there are a number of pros and cons associated with the move. How do you make the final decision?

Pros
- We love the Netherlands: people, biking, architecture, food snacks, transport links, how clean it is.
- Similar cost of living if not slightly less to Ireland (Dublin) where we live.
- Our cash deposit for a house in Ireland goes a longer way in the Netherlands, our mortgage would be small or could be repaid much quicker. One of us could probably work part time and mind future kids.
- Houses in Ireland are significantly overpriced at the moment. I believe there is a similar problem emerging in Holland but it's still good value for us.
- We are both professionals (finance + architecture) with good work experience in Ireland. Our skills are reasonably transferable to the Dutch market.
- I am fluent (although rusty) in Dutch.
- We have some friends and family (uncle and aunt) already there.
- Dutch people value work life balance more than Irish.

Cons
- There is a risk career wise that we might be taking a step back as we are both well established professionally (permanent jobs) in Ireland.
- Have good salaries in Ireland with perks such as: pensions, health, life insurance.
- Having to re-establish yourself again socially and professionally.
- My girlfriend does not speak Dutch (but is willing to learn). English is widely spoken.
- We are both 35 and are hoping to start a family in 2-3 years. We won't be able to start as easily as in Ireland (maternity, paternity leave etc.).
- Close family living in Ireland and Poland. With Ryanair it's not so much of a con, however, long distance babysitting might be an issue.

In general, our life in Ireland is good. We've come to the point in our lives where we are deciding/looking to buy a house and settle down in Ireland. I suppose there is a certain "fear" in the back of my mind that the opportunity of returning to Holland is no longer an option once we settle here in Ireland.

There are many other questions and I'm curious to hear how others made the decision to pack your bags, move to Holland and not look back?

I left a really good job in Dublin to move to Germany too. I similarly weighed up the pros and cons and there was enough of them in both directions for me to feel very torn. Then one day I was sitting in my really good job at about age 28ish and it hit me that I could see myself still sitting there in that really good job at 55. That made the decision for me. I did not want to wake up age 55 still in the same place thinking "Why did I never go do something else?". So I basically handed in the job notice the next day and I have been here in Germany ever since.

Most of the cons I had on my list never materialized either. And when they did they were much easier to over come than I expected. I am still not very integrated with the language here, as I live in a Bubble where German is not all that required and I have never had an aptitude for language either.

Some benefits I did not really think of at the time also materialized. My children age 8 and 4 are fully bi-lingual to mother tongue standard for their age. The older of my kids even more so as she is reading books in German in the 8-10 age range and some books in English I would put in the 12-14 reading bracket. She has just started learning English in school now officially but of course while other kids are struggling to make that new leap, she has it already under her belt so she immediately has an advantage over other kids and likely will continue to probably for 5 to 8 years.

What I did not forsee is how difficult it would be to move back to Ireland. For a few reasons I was tempted by this idea 12 to 18 months ago. I looked into it and my old boss even gave me a salary offer significantly higher than what I was on when I was childless back in Dublin. I was very close to considering it deeply until I did a price comparison and realized that rent/mortgages priced me out of even REMOTELY getting the same quality of life there at home as I have here in Germany. I could pull it together sure, but I shudder to think what area I would have to live in, or what major commute I would have to do, and what other compromises I would have to make just to reach the rental difference let alone everything else.

So I remain here and likely will continue to do so for a long time. Here in Germany Children get streamlined in schools really young. And if you do not get into the stream you want it CAN be challenging to move around. So if in about 18 months that goes awry and my daugther is not happy with what happens.... we will look at the UK and Ireland again. But if she gets what she wants, I can see us here until she is 16, 18, even 21.

One thing that would also make it emotionally very hard to move home is just how much everything WORKS here in Germany. And how well and how cheaply. I have 100s of examples of this but the most recent one that jumps to mind is that we were home and visiting Sligo in the Summer. And we went to the Bundoran water thing wtih the indoor wave machines and slides.

Firstly the price was more per PERSON than I would pay for a whole family here in Germany. There was damage to the slides so many of them were closed for the day. No discount for this. The staff were rude and short. The life guards were paranoid dictators running around screaming at kids they even thought MIGHT be about to do something wrong (my 141cm daugther was helping her little brother onto a TINY slide for kids under 135cm there for example and they ran over from three different directions screaming and blowing whistles to tell her not to get on the slide. Which she had no intention of anyway). I can not blame them 100% for this of course, its the crazy Irish insurance compo culture that has ruined it for everyone. There was bugger all food and drink facilities and were priced madly for what little there was.

While here in Germany we have an indoor city pool, which moves to outdoor in the summer. It is under 10 euro for my family of 4 to get in. You can stay 14 hours if you want. Lots of space, grass, playgrounds, table tennis, climbing frames and volleyball..... slides..... diving boards at varying heights.... a restaurant with cheap nice food, and much much more. No staff hasseling anyone. Discounts if anything is not working, sometimes even throwing the doors open and letting everyone in free.

Its a little thing, but 100s of little things like it add up to make me feel that living in a bigger European area like this is simply the best for me personally, and us as a family with kids, by far.

The lack of baby sitters we know well is indeed a sore point, as on your list, but we make do. Theres a few parents we trust enough, just not many.

Qrt

Of the people who moved to the Netherlands, did you cycle much?

I've been studying German for eight years now, but I'm always tempted to to jump ship and give the Netherlands a bash purely for the cycling infrastructure. That said some areas of Germany have phenomenal infrastructure too but not as widespread a culture.

Brian?

Qrt wrote: »

Of the people who moved to the Netherlands, did you cycle much?

I've been studying German for eight years now, but I'm always tempted to to jump ship and give the Netherlands a bash purely for the cycling infrastructure. That said some areas of Germany have phenomenal infrastructure too but not as widespread a culture.

The cycling infrastructure in Eindhoven is unreal. I doubt anywhere is better.

wexie

Brian? wrote: »

The cycling infrastructure in Eindhoven is unreal. I doubt anywhere is better.

Tilburg, it was a pilot city for making everywhere more cyclist friendly.
(although it's entirely possible it's been overtaken since, been a while since I've been in either on a bike)

(and unless I'm mistaken there are actual cycle paths between the 2, as there are between many cities)

Tuesday_Girl

Qrt wrote: »

Of the people who moved to the Netherlands, did you cycle much?

I've been studying German for eight years now, but I'm always tempted to to jump ship and give the Netherlands a bash purely for the cycling infrastructure. That said some areas of Germany have phenomenal infrastructure too but not as widespread a culture.

I cycled everywhere, never had a car over the 17 years I was there. I used public transport a bit but went to work, out for the night, to friend's places, to the shops, cinema, etc. everywhere by bike. It's the default mode of transport for most people and the cycline infrastructure is fantastic. 

First thing I had to buy when I moved back to Ireland was a car.....

Qrt

Tuesday_Girl wrote: »

I cycled everywhere, never had a car over the 17 years I was there. I used public transport a bit but went to work, out for the night, to friend's places, to the shops, cinema, etc. everywhere by bike. It's the default mode of transport for most people and the cycline infrastructure is fantastic. 

First thing I had to buy when I moved back to Ireland was a car.....

How depressing. While I do feel like Dublin will get there one day, it's a LONG way away.

Tuesday_Girl

Qrt wrote: »

Tuesday_Girl wrote: »

I cycled everywhere, never had a car over the 17 years I was there. I used public transport a bit but went to work, out for the night, to friend's places, to the shops, cinema, etc. everywhere by bike. It's the default mode of transport for most people and the cycline infrastructure is fantastic. 

First thing I had to buy when I moved back to Ireland was a car.....

How depressing. While I do feel like Dublin will get there one day, it's a LONG way away.

It is depressing, there are so many benefits to cycling over driving but not having a car in Ireland just isn't an option for me at this time (or probably not in my lifetime!).

freeze4real

I've tried getting a job in amsterdam for the past 1/2 months and its difficult. My area is in quant finance. How would you guys in Netherlands recommend getting a job?

zweton

freeze4real wrote: »

I've tried getting a job in amsterdam for the past 1/2 months and its difficult. My area is in quant finance. How would you guys in Netherlands recommend getting a job?

Presume your using linked in and indeed.nl ?

freeze4real

zweton wrote: »

Presume your using linked in and indeed.nl ?

Yea I'm using them both

Tuesday_Girl

Tuesday_Girl wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/irish-emigrants-mental-health-i-lost-my-charisma-my-social-skills-my-confidence-1.3657102

funny, I saw that article the other day and think moving abroad (3 and half years now)had the exact opposite effect for me. I think i'm a more well rounded person now, have better social skills (not that I was not social at home by any means!) and just a lot and my confidence is far greater than back home.

Also, this could have something to do with the age I am, leaving at 27, now 30. Maybe all that was going to happen anyway.

Either way, I think moving was the best decision I ever made and have no plans to go back anytime soon. (Living in Toronto)

airportgirl83

[Deleted User] wrote: »

funny, I saw that article the other day and think moving abroad (3 and half years now)had the exact opposite effect for me. I think i'm a more well rounded person now, have better social skills (not that I was not social at home by any means!) and just a lot and my confidence is far greater than back home.

Also, this could have something to do with the age I am, leaving at 27, now 30. Maybe all that was going to happen anyway.

Either way, I think moving was the best decision I ever made and have no plans to go back anytime soon. (Living in Toronto)

What made you decide to move?

airportgirl83

airportgirl83 wrote: »

What made you decide to move?

Mainly just wanted the experience of trying to live in a different place for a while. Never imagined I would love it so much!

But I was fed up with Ireland at that time, just stale and the thought of spending the rest of my life there without at least trying something made me very depressed!

zweton

Deleted User wrote: »

funny, I saw that article the other day and think moving abroad (3 and half years now)had the exact opposite effect for me. I think i'm a more well rounded person now, have better social skills (not that I was not social at home by any means!) and just a lot and my confidence is far greater than back home.

Also, this could have something to do with the age I am, leaving at 27, now 30. Maybe all that was going to happen anyway.

Either way, I think moving was the best decision I ever made and have no plans to go back anytime soon. (Living in Toronto)

Did you get sponsored by a company?

zweton

zweton wrote: »

Did you get sponsored by a company?

Nope! I sort of just winged it. Left my job in Ireland (in tech/IT) moved over with no job or even interviews lined up, no apartment which looking back even a fe years now I am like 'what was I thinking!?' but that is sort of the beauty of it, woudln't change a thing

But we got lucky and we found a place, found a job and never looked back

Mars Bar

The full time opportunities in my sector are almost non-existent. As a mainly outside job, I felt the need for some better weather. I spent a few months in Kuwait and didn't like it but wanted to give the Middle East another chance so here I am in Abu Dhabi and I'm loving it. I wouldn't get an opportunity like this at home. I'm 29 so it's a good time to be abroad.

nervous_twitch

I too just sort of followed an impulse. I had a well-paid job at home, lots of benefits with a salary I'd never get here, but at 26 I saw too many people in the job who had fallen into the trap of a comfortable life and were still there decades longer than they'd intended. I understand how easy it can be for that to happen, particularly when you start to accumulate obligations - mortgage, partner, family, loans etc - but I was fortunate enough to have none of them, and to be fluent in a foreign language (French), so within three months I'd made an escape plan.


Like Flynner, there was no real plan. I came to France alone. No apartment. No job. I knew nobody here and I had no idea what to expect. It couldn't have gone better. I found a job, made some wonderful friends, live alone in a great apartment in the centre of the city and I have a quality of life that I simply couldn't have in Ireland. Of course, I love Ireland. It's home. But so is here. Four years later and I'm not looking back. France is not too far away which helps, naturally. Unlike the article posted above, my confidence and enjoyment of life have improved in ways I hadn't thought possible, but again that could be just my age.

kevohmsford

I lived in Eindhoven for 2 years. Cycled everywhere. Went to Belgium and Germany on my bike. It is a nice city and close to some towns in Germany for cheap shopping.
Not a whole lot going on there really for a single person. They have a brilliant IMAX screen in the cinema.

airportgirl83

kevohmsford wrote: »

I lived in Eindhoven for 2 years. Cycled everywhere. Went to Belgium and Germany on my bike. It is a nice city and close to some towns in Germany for cheap shopping.
Not a whole lot going on there really for a single person. They have a brilliant IMAX screen in the cinema.

What sector did you work in, if I may ask?

kevohmsford

airportgirl83 wrote: »

What sector did you work in, if I may ask?

Electronic Manufacturing

redcup342

Hi OP,

I did 2 years in Den Haag, 7 in Eindhoven and now in Dusseldorf for the past 2 years.

Overall I would say I'd find it hard to go back to Ireland now, the quality of life in Ireland is fairly low in comparison.

Cycling, Public Transport, Healthcare and Infrastructure in general is much better (even better than North West Germany) but it is bloody expensive.

Taxes are extremely high compared to Ireland (although if you get the 30% ruling this can make it more interesting, however do not count on it as future income as it can be cut or reduced at any time)

In the Randstad you can definitely get away with not learning Dutch at all (until you need to complain about something)

Brabant and Limburg its more necessary to learn Dutch (Eindhoven is the exception in the area and its rather international)

IMO I would not recommend living in Rotterdam, you'd be better off living somewhere on the Sprinter line between Den Haag and Rotterdam (Delft is lovely) . Many people I know landed in NL, lived in Rotterdam and then moved a few months later as the City is rather ugly and there is quite a lot of crime (that's not based on News that's on actual experience)

irelandrover

I moved to Eindhoven 11 years ago at this point. Originally my plan was to move here for a year and then move on. I'm still here.

Im still here as life is so easy. You can cycle everywhere which makes transport cheap, there is a very good work life balance. Most people work 40 hours a week maximum, there is no expectation of overtime in any of the companies i worked for. I have 41 days holidays a year in my current job and there is no problem taking all of them.

Eindhoven is a good city to live in, its small enough but has a very wide cultural range which means there is so many varied restaurants/ things to do here. Because its small its very easy to cycle everywhere in the city or arrange meetups at very short notice. Im a 10 minute cycle from work and my wife is about 3 minutes. One issue is that because its so international it is difficult to learn Dutch.

I recently had a child and have dropped down to a 4 day week, the company has to allow it. It meant a paycut but afrter tax im on about 87% of my old salary.

airportgirl83

irelandrover wrote: »

I moved to Eindhoven 11 years ago at this point. Originally my plan was to move here for a year and then move on. I'm still here.

Im still here as life is so easy. You can cycle everywhere which makes transport cheap, there is a very good work life balance. Most people work 40 hours a week maximum, there is no expectation of overtime in any of the companies i worked for. I have 41 days holidays a year in my current job and there is no problem taking all of them.

Eindhoven is a good city to live in, its small enough but has a very wide cultural range which means there is so many varied restaurants/ things to do here. Because its small its very easy to cycle everywhere in the city or arrange meetups at very short notice. Im a 10 minute cycle from work and my wife is about 3 minutes. One issue is that because its so international it is difficult to learn English.

I recently had a child and have dropped down to a 4 day week, the company has to allow it. It meant a paycut but afrter tax im on about 87% of my old salary.

Did you mean 'difficult to learn Dutch'? Are you taking lessons? Does your job require both Dutch and English?

irelandrover

airportgirl83 wrote: »

Did you mean 'difficult to learn Dutch'? Are you taking lessons? Does your job require both Dutch and English?

Yeah, i meant difficult to learn Dutch. Im still not fluent in Dutch even after all this time. I work entirely in English. I do take dutch lessons and can hold a conversation if needed but people will still switch to English as its easier for them to speak English than talk dutch to me.

airportgirl83

irelandrover wrote: »

I moved to Eindhoven 11 years ago at this point. Originally my plan was to move here for a year and then move on. I'm still here.

Im still here as life is so easy. You can cycle everywhere which makes transport cheap, there is a very good work life balance. Most people work 40 hours a week maximum, there is no expectation of overtime in any of the companies i worked for. I have 41 days holidays a year in my current job and there is no problem taking all of them.

Eindhoven is a good city to live in, its small enough but has a very wide cultural range which means there is so many varied restaurants/ things to do here. Because its small its very easy to cycle everywhere in the city or arrange meetups at very short notice. Im a 10 minute cycle from work and my wife is about 3 minutes. One issue is that because its so international it is difficult to learn Dutch.

I recently had a child and have dropped down to a 4 day week, the company has to allow it. It meant a paycut but afrter tax im on about 87% of my old salary.

When you say the company has to allow you to drop to 4 day week, is it law? It's very interesting, really shows they value work life balance big time!

irelandrover

airportgirl83 wrote: »

When you say the company has to allow you to drop to 4 day week, is it law? It's very interesting, really shows they value work life balance big time!

You are entitled to 26 x the length of your working week. So if you work a 40 hour week you are entitled to 1040hours. You dont have ot take it as a day off. Some colleagues take it as a half day every week. Some take a day every 2 weeks.

In my current company about 10% of people take it. In my previous company I'd say about 80% were on a 4 day week.

http://www.hulsbosklatt.com/2015/02/parental-leave-legal-right-netherlands/

zweton

irelandrover wrote: »

I moved to Eindhoven 11 years ago at this point. Originally my plan was to move here for a year and then move on. I'm still here.

Im still here as life is so easy. You can cycle everywhere which makes transport cheap, there is a very good work life balance. Most people work 40 hours a week maximum, there is no expectation of overtime in any of the companies i worked for. I have 41 days holidays a year in my current job and there is no problem taking all of them.

Eindhoven is a good city to live in, its small enough but has a very wide cultural range which means there is so many varied restaurants/ things to do here. Because its small its very easy to cycle everywhere in the city or arrange meetups at very short notice. Im a 10 minute cycle from work and my wife is about 3 minutes. One issue is that because its so international it is difficult to learn Dutch.

I recently had a child and have dropped down to a 4 day week, the company has to allow it. It meant a paycut but afrter tax im on about 87% of my old salary.

Irelandrover, whats your field?