To those who believe WTC 7 didn't fall due to fire, how did it fall?

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

We're all off-topic but then again I've never come across a 911 thread which isn't a complete and utter dumpster fire.

But now we get to point to Cheerful as a prime example of just how ridiculous, silly and often times horrible conspiracy theories can be.

King Mob

Just some more links and quotes from the site that Cheerful had the temerity to use to support his bull****:

https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion

Key denial assertions are that the murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II never occurred, that the Nazis had no official policy or intention to exterminate the Jews, and that the poison gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp never existed. Common distortions include, for example, assertions that the figure of six million Jewish deaths is an exaggeration and that the diary of Anne Frank is a forgery.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/holocaust-deniers-and-public-misinformation

Some Holocaust deniers claim that those “few” Jews who perished died from natural causes or were legitimately executed by the Nazi state for actual criminal offenses. They assert that Jews and the Allied powers deliberately inflated the numbers of Jews killed during the war. Holocaust historians have placed the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust between 5.1 and 6 million, based on legitimate available historical sources and demographic methods. Holocaust deniers cite uncertainty about the exact number of deaths within this accepted range as proof that the whole history of the Holocaust has been fabricated and that the number of Jewish deaths during World War II has been grossly exaggerated.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/combating-holocaust-denial-origins-of-holocaust-denial

Holocaust deniers want to debate the very existence of the Holocaust as a historical event. They want above all to be seen as legitimate scholars arguing a historical point. They crave attention, a public platform to air what they refer to as “the other side of the issue.” Because legitimate scholars do not doubt that the Holocaust happened, such assertions play no role in historical debates. Although deniers insist that the idea of the Holocaust as myth is a reasonable topic of debate, it is clear, in light of the overwhelming weight of evidence that the Holocaust happened, that the debate the deniers put forward is more about antisemitism and hate politics than it is about history.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Please answer these questions without waffle

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately exaggerated the numbers of Holocaust dead?

2. How many Jews died in the Holocaust according to you? answer this without waffle, without "weasel words" and deflections, straight up answer it. And don't try to pull the denier fallacy of "I don't know but all the historians are wrong"

I blame the Soviets mostly for the holocaust errors and misinformation. The Jewish people just went along with it. The 6 million deaths by Holocaust is not accurate. From 1933 to 1944 Jews would have died for many reasons, like old age and disease. Hitler attack on the Jews would have pushed many of them to Flee to the UK, American, South America, Canada and the Middle East. The War in 1939 would have caused deaths among the Jewish people, bombings, joining allied armies and Hitler invading territory in Europe.

Honest answer I don't know. Based on train movements to the east roughly 2 million + Jews were moved to camps. What happened then I guess they died on trains, died from food shortages, lack of good water, winter, war, work, disease, and murder by guards, gas, and other things.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

... I guess...

Lol. :rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I blame the Soviets mostly for the holocaust errors and misinformation. The Jewish people just went along with it. The 6 million deaths by Holocaust is not accurate. From 1933 to 1944 Jews would have died for many reasons, like old age and disease. Hitler attack on the Jews would have pushed many of them to Flee to the UK, American, South America, Canada and the Middle East. The War in 1939 would have caused deaths among the Jewish people, bombings, joining allied armies and Hitler invading territory in Europe.

Please answer the question without waffle

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately exaggerated the numbers of Holocaust dead?

Honest answer I don't know. Based on train movements to the east roughly 2 million + Jews were moved to camps. What happened then I guess they died on trains, died from food shortages, lack of good water, winter, war, work, disease, and murder by guards, gas, and other things.

You claim you don't know and at the same time seem to be suggesting 2 million

Which is it?

1. You don't know

or

2. You kinda guess that like maybe like two million Jews died?

Is this based on a study or something you've just made-up and cobbled together in your head in the last few minutes. Is there a book called "I think like maybe 2 million died because trains, and I read it somewhere but not sure, maybe, I don't know" that you are drawing this information from, or just your imagination?

This is like debating with borderline insanity

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Rubbish. The 6 million figure is based on the extermination of Jews by gas and shootings. It the reason it called the Holocaust.

No historian can accurately breakdown how they were all killed between 1941 and 1945.

I'm interested in truth, not fiction.

I might do if I saw the need to look into it? You claim 3.2 million that could be inaccurate also, could be lower could be higher. I just pointing out the realities of the time and period. The Eastern Front was not rainbows and sunshine it was area ravaged by war. You have to take into account the harsh winters from 1942 to 1945.

Ha!!!! :pac:

banie01

Dohnjoe wrote: »

We're all off-topic but then again I've never come across a 911 thread which isn't a complete and utter dumpster fire.

I find any thread that C.S gets involved in goes that way.
But the cultural bias is shining through in more than just poor syntax now

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Please answer the question without waffle

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately exaggerated the numbers of Holocaust dead?



You claim you don't know and at the same time seem to be suggesting 2 million

Which is it?

1. You don't know

or

2. You kinda guess that like maybe like two million Jews died?

Is this based on a study or something you've just made-up and cobbled together in your head in the last few minutes. Is there a book called "I think like maybe 2 million died because trains, and I read it somewhere but not sure, maybe, I don't know" that you are drawing this information from, or just your imagination?

This is like debating with borderline insanity

The Nazis kept records on the movement of Jews on special trains (Sonderzüge) to the East from all Occupied Europe. We have numbers of Jews listed and where they went. It works out a roughly at two million from late 1941 to 1944. So we have an idea from this how many Jews ended up in Poland and other countries in Eastern Europe.

Two million from the German-occupied Europe yes how many survived have no clue. Probably another half million or one million Jews in Poland. So about 3 million + died over a course of 4 years in Europe and Eastern Europe.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Nazis kept records on the movement of Jews on special trains (Sonderzüge) to the East from all Occupied Europe. We have numbers of Jews listed and where they went.

So you just blindly believe the Nazis and take their number as gospel?!

What about other sources? Are all the others wrong? 75 years of historical research. "Ah the Nazi number is right. We can trust them".

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I guess they died on trains, died from food shortages, lack of good water, winter, war, work, disease, and murder by guards, gas, and other things.

I love that one. Like the cause of their deaths were in that order!

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Two million from the German-occupied Europe yes how many survived have no clue. Probably another half million or one million Jews in Poland. So about 3 million + died over a course of 4 years in Europe and Eastern Europe.

You have no clue?

It's like a child stumbling over a story to adults

The questions still remain

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately over-inflated the numbers of Jewish dead during the Holocaust? A simple yes or no

2. How many Jews were killed during the Holocaust? pick a number

Bonus question

3. Do you think the Jews are sneaky enough to trick the world into believing more of them suffered during the Holocaust than actually did?

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

So you just blindly believe the Nazis and take their number as gospel?!

What about other sources? Are all the others wrong?

They were expecting to win the war. There no reason to hide the numbers of Jews transported to the east. It, not an account of how they died. It just how they moved them out of the Reich.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You have no clue?

It's like a child stumbling over a story to adults

The questions still remain

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately over-inflated the numbers of Jewish dead during the Holocaust? A simple yes or no

2. How many Jews were killed during the Holocaust? pick a number

Bonus question

3. Do you think the Jews are sneaky enough to trick the world into believing more of them suffered during the Holocaust than actually did?

Yes.

About 2.5 to 3 million Jews died in the East.

Soviet disinformation over 45 years caused the confusion. Historians are correcting the numbers of deaths at the camps, slowly, but it happening since the 90s

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes.

About 2.5 to 3 million Jews died in the East.

It that "yes" an answer to question 1 and question 3?

As a reminder question 1 and also question 3

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately over-inflated the numbers of Jewish dead during the Holocaust? A simple yes or no

3. Do you think the Jews are sneaky enough to trick the world into believing more of them suffered during the Holocaust than actually did?

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It that "yes" an answer to question 1 and question 3?

As a reminder question 1 and also question 3

1. Do you believe the Jews deliberately over-inflated the numbers of Jewish dead during the Holocaust? A simple yes or no

3. Do you think the Jews are sneaky enough to trick the world into believing more of them suffered during the Holocaust than actually did?

I am off this subject, I said what I needed to say. You can continue this debate if you like. I not getting involved in your games.

Make a new thread and go at it this is a 9/11 thread.

Cheerful Spring

banie01 wrote: »

I find any thread that C.S gets involved in goes that way.
But the cultural bias is shining through in more than just poor syntax now

You want me to conform and think like you. I, not a robot thank you.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I am off this subject, I said what I needed to say. You can continue this debate if you like. I not getting involved in your games.

Make a new thread and go at it this is a 9/11 thread.

It's not a debate. It's holocaust denial with underpinnings of anti-semitism in a 911 thread. This entire section, if not thread, will likely be be nuked if a mod could even be bothered to read through this drivel

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's not a debate. It's holocaust denial with underpinnings of anti-semitism in a 911 thread. This entire section, if not thread, will likely be be nuked if a mod could even be bothered to read through this drivel

That your view and how you see things. You guys want to shut down debate. It same for JFK and 9/11 threads.

You guys just accept what you're told and that how your brains work.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe nobody asking you to spend your time on conspiracy site. It a conspiracy site. It not a site for people like you. I find it very strange that people like you spend so much time on here? Why has nobody studied this phenomenon?

I dont feel the need to go a debunker site to promote conspiracies.

Cheerful Spring

Two popular Skeptic sites you guys can join.

Metabunk https://www.metabunk.org/

International Skeptics http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumindex.php

I don't know why you guys waste your time on here when these sites talk about conspiracies and they think like you do?

King Mob

Yea but Cheerful, we're the only ones actually responding to your link dumps and plagiarised posts.
Other conspiracy theorists don't seem interested in talking with you or helping you with your theories.

This is because you are the type of conspiracy theorists the other will defensively deny being.

You lie. You don't understand anything about anything. You are ignorant of politics, history, physics, math...
You are racist.

There's plenty of places out there where you can post and no one will point these things out. Where no one will ever question you.

We post here because we are interest in conspiracy theories and why people believe them when they arr very clearly not true.
And in some causes, like holocaust denial, misinformation and propaganda needs to be exposed, rejected and ridiculed.

Dohnjoe

TLDR we're a bunch of masochists who go where no one else dares bothers

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Yea but Cheerful, we're the only ones actually responding to your link dumps and plagiarised posts.
Other conspiracy theorists don't seem interested in talking with you or helping you with your theories.

This is because you are the type of conspiracy theorists the other will defensively deny being.

You lie. You don't understand anything about anything. You are ignorant of politics, history, physics, math...
You are racist.

There's plenty of places out there where you can post and no one will point these things out. Where no one will ever question you.

We post here because we are interest in conspiracy theories and why people believe them when they arr very clearly not true.
And in some causes, like holocaust denial, misinformation and propaganda needs to be exposed, rejected and ridiculed.

The reason people don't post here is you're an attack dog. I have gotten many Private messages telling me to keep it up and they do agree with me. They told me they will not post here because of how you guys act and belittle people. I can handle it, but a lot of people can't deal with that negative energy.

Yes that why Skeptics sites exist to expose, reject, and ridicule!.. Least you're honest you here to ridicule. I still think that exposes what kind of person you are and how you deal with situations in your life?

I not a racist. I like digging deeper into things to find out the truth. You personally see things as is.

Conspiracies are not true for you. So then don't waste your time discussing them, its insanity what you doing.

King Mob

Cheerful, you are a liar. I don't believe you when you claim you get private messages.
That is a childish lie you are making up.
It sounds like something Trump would claim...

We only ridicule you after 1000s of posts utter ridiculousness from you. And even then we are just pointing out what you say.

And some conspiracy theories, like the racist one you are expounding deserve to be ridiculed and derided for the awful, stupid racist propaganda that they are.

Other conspiracy theories, like the idea that school shootings are faked lead to real harm and harassment and should be confronted and ultimately mocked into harmlessness.

You are a racist Cheerful, because you believe a racist conspiracy theory invented and spread by racists.
You do not "dig deeper" as you show that either you have a shocking ignorance about the subject, or you are blatantly telling an easily debunkable lie. For example your claims about what historians say about the holocaust.

We honestly can't tell if you are actually that ill informed or if you are telling a very stupid lie.
And you are doing that in aid of racist propaganda.
That's how people see you man. That should worry you.

Again, there's plenty of places out there that are a safe space for you.
No one will point out your lies and ignorance. People will pat you on the back for your fantasies and racist theories. People might even read the link dumps and plagerised posts.

Or you could maybe grow up, self reflect and try engaging here in a mature, honest and direct way.
But you've been given every chance.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes that why Skeptics sites exist to expose, reject, and ridicule!.. Least you're honest you here to ridicule. I still think that exposes what kind of person you are and how you deal with situations in your life?

History sites expose Holocaust denial, scientific sites expose pseudo-science

You think people should be allowed to post anti-vaccine stuff unchallenged? post about Sandy Hook theories unchallenged?

No one needs to be reminded that measles and other preventable diseases are actually making a comeback thanks to disinformation on social media and forums. Victims families in tragedies are being harassed thanks to conspiracy theorists

Bull**** should always be called out

If you want to create this as a "safe space" for your own brand of bull**** and Holocaust denial, then don't act surprised when other posters tackle it

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The reason people don't post here is you're an attack dog. I have gotten many Private messages telling me to keep it up and they do agree with me. They told me they will not post here because of how you guys act and belittle people. I can handle it, but a lot of people can't deal with that negative energy.

Yes that why Skeptics sites exist to expose, reject, and ridicule!.. Least you're honest you here to ridicule. I still think that exposes what kind of person you are and how you deal with situations in your life?

I not a racist. I like digging deeper into things to find out the truth. You personally see things as is.

Conspiracies are not true for you. So then don't waste your time discussing them, its insanity what you doing.

Lies, lies and more lies.

The truth is (and I'm sure you don't want to hear this) you are a fraud.

You plagiarize other people's work, you're forever copy/pasting from random blogs or websites and when you are backed into a corner you dump a bunch of youtube video's onto the thread that are many hours long expecting people to watch them when its obvious you have not had more than a glance.

When called up on this you then have the cheek to ask people why they they are argueing against you disgusting racist posts? You just want a little echo chamber where everything you believe is right and no one will tell you (with mountains of proof) that you are wrong.

You're a liar, a racist and a fraud and i honestly think this site would be a better place without the likes of you posting your bile.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Cheerful, you are a liar. I don't believe you when you claim you get private messages.
That is a childish lie you are making up.
It sounds like something Trump would claim...

We only ridicule you after 1000s of posts utter ridiculousness from you. And even then we are just pointing out what you say.

And some conspiracy theories, like the racist one you are expounding deserve to be ridiculed and derided for the awful, stupid racist propaganda that they are.

Other conspiracy theories, like the idea that school shootings are faked lead to real harm and harassment and should be confronted and ultimately mocked into harmlessness.

You are a racist Cheerful, because you believe a racist conspiracy theory invented and spread by racists.
You do not "dig deeper" as you show that either you have a shocking ignorance about the subject, or you are blatantly telling an easily debunkable lie. For example your claims about what historians say about the holocaust.

We honestly can't tell if you are actually that ill informed or if you are telling a very stupid lie.
And you are doing that in aid of racist propaganda.
That's how people see you man. That should worry you.

Again, there's plenty of places out there that are a safe space for you.
No one will point out your lies and ignorance. People will pat you on the back for your fantasies and racist theories. People might even read the link dumps and plagerised posts.

Or you could maybe grow up, self reflect and try engaging here in a mature, honest and direct way.
But you've been given every chance.

It is the truth. I love to share with you what they think, but they send the messages to me private and confidently. If they’re reading this post and don’t care if I share their messages on this thread, then PM me. I think Kingmob needs a reality check!

JFK and 9/11 are true conspiracy theories. For me, there is a lot of evidence the official story is not correct and there was a deception to cover up what happened.

The Holocaust is not a true conspiracy theory. The Evidence is there to believe it happened and on a grand scale. There no disputing Hitler, Himmler and Henrich, Eichman and other sets in motion a plan to wipe the Jewish race from history.

Where you wrong. It not racist or a conspiracy theory to debate how many Jews died between 1933 and 1944. Better if historians were allowed to debate this freely and not be attacked for their opinion on this.

It’s people like you go out of there way to stifle genuine debate about world-changing events.

You’re not informed, plus you display that ignorance and close-mindedness constantly when we discuss the evidence for 9/11 and JFK. Out of all of you Nal only one who debates the evidence presented in this forum. Even though i strongly dispute some of the things he says. But I respect the attempt to debate the actual evidence.

I don’t plagiarise any info. More nonsense from Kingmob. I don’t take credit for anyone else theories. I state all the time what the post is and where it came from. If I post long text from a link or images I told you where I got them from. Of course, you have comprehension problem and always claiming I said something when I have not.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

History sites expose Holocaust denial, scientific sites expose pseudo-science

You think people should be allowed to post anti-vaccine stuff unchallenged? post about Sandy Hook theories unchallenged?

No one needs to be reminded that measles and other preventable diseases are actually making a comeback thanks to disinformation on social media and forums. Victims families in tragedies are being harassed thanks to conspiracy theorists

Bull**** should always be called out

If you want to create this as a "safe space" for your own brand of bull**** and Holocaust denial, then don't act surprised when other posters tackle it

Sure I agree with that first statement. I believe anti-vaccine and Sandy Hook conspiracies should be challenged. I think Alex Jones is a nut job and doing untold harm. I think his audience have to be unhinged to be listening to his rants and nonsense every day.

My brand of bull**** has evidence, and you just ignore it.

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Lies, lies and more lies.

The truth is (and I'm sure you don't want to hear this) you are a fraud.

You plagiarize other people's work, you're forever copy/pasting from random blogs or websites and when you are backed into a corner you dump a bunch of youtube video's onto the thread that are many hours long expecting people to watch them when its obvious you have not had more than a glance.

When called up on this you then have the cheek to ask people why they they are argueing against you disgusting racist posts? You just want a little echo chamber where everything you believe is right and no one will tell you (with mountains of proof) that you are wrong.

You're a liar, a racist and a fraud and i honestly think this site would be a better place without the likes of you posting your bile.

It's called presenting the evidence. Of course and Kingmob admitted it he does bother to find out if the evidence i post is true or not. That not someone who looking to find out the truth, that someone with preconceived beliefs. I have looked at the evidence for and against. In my opinion, the evidence is there to believe 9/11 and JFK assassination did not happen in the way we are told.

You can call me a liar or fraud and racist, it all good:rolleyes:

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It is the truth. I love to share with you what they think, but they send the messages to me private and confidently. If they’re reading this post and don’t care if I share their messages on this thread, then PM me. I think Kingmob needs a reality check!

JFK and 9/11 are true conspiracy theories. For me, there is a lot of evidence the official story is not correct and there was a deception to cover up what happened.

The Holocaust is not a true conspiracy theory. The Evidence is there to believe it happened and on a grand scale. There no disputing Hitler, Himmler and Henrich, Eichman and other sets in motion a plan to wipe the Jewish race from history.

Where you wrong. It not racist or a conspiracy theory to debate how many Jews died between 1933 and 1944. Better if historians were allowed to debate this freely and not be attacked for their opinion on this.

It’s people like you go out of there way to stifle genuine debate about world-changing events.

You’re not informed, plus you display that ignorance and close-mindedness constantly when we discuss the evidence for 9/11 and JFK. Out of all of you Nal only one who debates the evidence presented in this forum. Even though i strongly dispute some of the things he says. But I respect the attempt to debate the actual evidence.

I don’t plagiarise any info. More nonsense from Kingmob. I don’t take credit for anyone else theories. I state all the time what the post is and where it came from. If I post long text from a link or images I told you where I got them from. Of course, you have comprehension problem and always claiming I said something when I have not.

Again, literally everything in this post is utterly untrue.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It's called presenting the evidence. Of course and Kingmob admitted it he does bother to find out if the evidence i post is true or not.

Mm hmm...?
So that evidence I claimed that 6 million Jewish people were gassed?
Or evidence that any historian claimed that?

Asked you for that multiple times.