To those who believe WTC 7 didn't fall due to fire, how did it fall?

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Pay lip service then bam into full on random waffle "words" mode



No one claims this. Only you. You make up these bizarre claims like you feel threatened by academia. Historians use evidence via consensus to reach an approximate figure

You on the other hand pluck a vague number out of the thin air and use lies, distortion, ignorance and copious amounts of faulty thinking to get towards that number or at the very least to "stick it to the man" by refuting the entire field of Holocaust history

It's mental

I did some research and came across someone who estimated the number of Jews who died in the Holocaust was around 4.2 to 4.5 million. That 1.8 million less than the figures today of 6 million killed in the Holocaust.

From his bio.
During the 1950s he wrote two books about the Holocaust: The SS: Alibi of a Nation and The Final Solution, both of which achieved large sales. In the latter book, he alleged that Soviet claims of the Auschwitz death toll being 4 million were "ridiculous", and he suggested an alternative figure of 800,000 to 900,000 dead; about 4.2 to 4.5 million was his estimate for the total number of Jewish deaths in the Holocaust.[2] Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls, though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account"
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Reitlinger

Around the 4 million mark, is not a bad or terrible estimation in my opinion. My own analysis was around 2.5 to 3 million Jews were wiped out by the Holocaust in Europe. It is a lot closer to what I think. What happened to the Jews in Russia could raise the number by another 500,000.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I did some research
From his bio.

My own analysis was around 2.5 to 3 million Jews were wiped out by the Holocaust in Europe.

You are not a historian.
Watching youtube videos from racists and neo-nazis and conspiracy theorists is not research.
Deciding that you want the number to be lower because of your racism isn't analysis.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

You are not a historian.
Watching youtube videos from racists and neo-nazis and conspiracy theorists is not research.
Deciding that you want the number to be lower because of your racism isn't analysis.

So Gerald Reitlinger is a racist for saying about 2 million fewer Jews people died in the holocaust?

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So Gerald Reitlinger is a racist for saying about 2 million fewer Jews people died in the holocaust?

Nope, cause he's an actual historian who did actual research using actual analysis.
He did not just watch youtube and quote racist propaganda.
He did not express racist views about Jewish people.
He did not lie constantly.

He can probably do basic math also.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Nope, cause he's an actual historian who did actual research using actual analysis.
He did not just watch youtube and quote racist propaganda.
He did not express racist views about Jewish people.
He did not lie constantly.

He can probably do basic math also.

So he estimates 4 million.

My highest estimate was 3 million+ maybe another 500,000. 3.5 million.

You believe the 6 million.

Who closer to being right me or you?

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So he estimates 4 million.

My highest estimate was 3 million+ maybe another 500,000. 3.5 million.

You believe the 6 million.

Who closer to being right me or you?

Lol. :rolleyes:
Me. The majority of real historians and researchers do not agree with the figure of 4.5 which was from the 50s.
You have one researcher who claims it was 4.5 million. Good job.
No researchers agree with the figure of 3 million.
I'd ask you to quote one, but we know how your embarrassed yourself last time.

You do not have an "estimate" you have a number your plucked out of your arse. You did not do any research. You are not a historian. You cannot do basic math.
You are stating "3 million" because you want to deny the holocaust, but you know that doing what your buddies do and saying it was entirely fake is disgusting and would make you seem immediately unworthy of serious consideration.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Lol. :rolleyes:
Me. The majority of real historians and researchers do not agree with the figure of 4.5 which was from the 50s.
No researchers argee with the figure of 3 million.
I'd ask you to quote one, but we know how your embarrassed yourself last time.

You do not have an "estimate" you have a number your plucked out of your arse. You did not do any research. You are not a historian. You cannot do basic math.
You are stating "3 million" because you want to deny the holocaust, but you know that doing what your buddies do and saying it was entirely fake is disgusting and would make you seem immediately unworthy of serious consideration.

You are full of it. You told me 6 million died in the Holocaust.

Gerald Reitlinger his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".[3]

So is he a holocaust denier a racist for questioning the 6 million figure?

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You are full of it. You told me 6 million died in the Holocaust.

Gerald Reitlinger his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".[3]

So is he a holocaust denier a racist for questioning the 6 million figure?

It's 2019.

And no, because of the stuff I mentioned in the previous post. Try reading it again.

Most historians state the number is around 6 million. Some estimates are lower, some are higher.

Here's a link I posted earlier that proves that number:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution

Go read it.

If you have trouble with any of the big words or big numbers, we can help.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

It's 2019.

And no, because of the stuff I mentioned in the previous post. Try reading it again.

Most historians state the number is around 6 million. Some estimates are lower, some are higher.

Here's a link I posted earlier that proves that number:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution

Go read it.

If you have trouble with any of the big words or big numbers, we can help.

You got exposed. You said anyone who questions the 6 million deaths is a holocaust denier and a racist.

Gerald Reitlinger is a racist and Holocaust denier then

He gave an estimate of 4.2 million could be 4.5. That 1.8 million less than the 6 million figure.

You did not notice he also disputed the Soviet info about Jewish deaths. See I was right to do this. You are someone who had thought about it any meaningful way. You attacked my character and motives instead.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You are full of it. You told me 6 million died in the Holocaust.

Gerald Reitlinger his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".[3]

Now thats a quote mine. The real quote (the 2nd half of which you copied from Wikipedia, purposely omitting the first part) is "Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls, though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You got exposed. You said anyone who questions the 6 million deaths is a holocaust denier and a racist. Gerald Reitlinger is a racist and Holocaust denier then

And quote where I said specifically that.

There's a difference between providing a lower estimate after valid research and the "questioning" you and other racist holocaust deniers do.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

He gave an estimate of 4.2 million could be 4.5. That 1.8 million less than the 6 million figure.
.

Yes. Forty years ago. One researcher.
Other researchers don't agree. I posted a link that proves the around 6 million figure.
No researchers support your figure as you just dreamed it up to support your racist beliefs.

King Mob

The Nal wrote: »

Now thats a quote mine. The real quote (the 2nd half of which you copied from Wikipedia, purposely omitting the first part) is "Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls, though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".

Another perfect example of his utter dishonesty.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Now thats a quote mine. The real quote (which you copied from Wikipedia) is "[B]Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls[/B], though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".

Kingmob claimed anyone who questioned the 6 million figure is a denier.

I never stated historians don't have a different opinion.

I disputed the 6 million figure and I was attacked for it.

Reitlinger is a holocaust denier and racist, he denies 6 million Jews died in the holocaust.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Kingmob claimed anyone who questioned the 6 million figure is a denier.

Quote please.
Or again, this is another lie like when you claimed I and real historians said 6 million people were gassed.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Kingmob claimed anyone who questioned the 6 million figure is a denier.

I never stated historians don't have a different opinion.

I disputed the 6 million figure and I was attacked for it.

Reitlinger is a holocaust denier and racist, he denies 6 million Jews died in the holocaust.

I don't care. Just pointing out a glaring garden variety conspiracy theorist tactic of quote mining. Hoping people won't dig further for the real quote.

I've no interest in engaging on this topic with someone who quote mines from wikipedia.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Quote please.
Or again, this is another lie like when you claimed I and real historians said 6 million people were gassed.

Exposed.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057919635&page=129

I willing to get off this subject are you? This is 9/11 thread and we off topic.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Exposed.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057919635&page=129

Lol :rolleyes:
That link goes to a page, not a post.
No where on that page is anything remotely like what you claimed i said.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I willing to get off this subject are you? This is 9/11 thread and we off topic.

It's never been on topic.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Exposed.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057919635&page=129

What are we supposed to be looking at here?!

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Lol :rolleyes:
That link goes to a page, not a post.
No where on that page is anything remotely like what you claimed i said.



It's never been on topic.

1923 post and you posted links about people who question the 6 million number. You did it with other posts also. You don't remember what you post, so not your fault.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

1923 post and you posted links about who people who question the 6 million number. You did it with other posts also. You don't remember what you post, so not your fault.

No where in that post do I say anything of the sort.

Quote exactly what I said that.

Also, speaking of quotes,

"Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls, though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".

Any comment on why you altered that quote when you stole it?

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

No where in that post do I say anything of the sort.

Quote exactly what I said that.

Also, speaking of quotes,


Any comment on why you altered that quote when you stole it?

Every post I made you claimed I was wrong. Go read your own posts on this thread.

You even dropped this link in one of your posts.
Key denial assertions are that the murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II never occurred, that the Nazis had no official policy or intention to exterminate the Jews, and that the poison gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp never existed. Common distortions include, for example, assertions that the figure of six million Jewish deaths is an exaggeration and that the diary of Anne Frank is a forgery.

Why do I need to post the first part of quote? You disagreeing with me not people who support you.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Every post I made you claimed I was wrong. Go read your own posts on this thread.

Because every post you make is wrong and full of lies.
You claimed that I said that anyone who doesn't agree with the 6 million figure is a racist holocaust denier like you are.
This is clearly untrue. You can't post a single quote where I said anything of the sort.
This isn't the time it's happened either.
You claimed that I had said that 6 million people were gassed. That was a lie too.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You even dropped this link in one of your posts.
Key denial assertions are that the murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II never occurred, that the Nazis had no official policy or intention to exterminate the Jews, and that the poison gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp never existed. Common distortions include, for example, assertions that the figure of six million Jewish deaths is an exaggeration and that the diary of Anne Frank is a forgery.

Yes. That is something I quoted.
And...?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why do I need to post the first part of quote?

Because it undermines and refutes the point you were trying to make.
Why else did you cut it out.
Honestly though, not sure if you are playing dumb or not.
It's entirely possible you just don't know what the first part of the quote means...

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You disagreeing with me not people who support you.

Lol, wut?

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Building falls down

Experts, investigators gather ALL the evidence (thousands of unreleased photos, documents, physical evidence) interview everyone from building owners, staff, witnesses and meticulously test all their hypotheses using teams of actual related experts (structural engineers with PhDs) to BUILD a picture of what happened

911 conspiracy theorists DECIDE it fell down due to an inside job work backwards from there to "prove it". They use a whole bunch of disjointed random contradictory "evidence", pseudo science, random isolated "experts" to reach a thousand different theories (anything but the official story). After 17 years none of them can present a from the GROUND UP consensus of what happened

Sandy Hook truthers used precisely the same faulty technique. Boston Marathon bombing, Aurora shooting, Paris attacks, Charlie Hebdo truthers, all the "conspiracy theories" use the same technique

Faulty thinking.

NIST had their chance to prove WTC7 fell from fire and they failed. I can't wait for Dr Hulsey study to expose this fraud by NIST.

When NIST and Dr Hulsey computer simulations are seen side by side, they're going to be no doubt anymore who manipulated the data.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Because every post you make is wrong and full of lies.
You claimed that I said that anyone who doesn't agree with the 6 million figure is a racist holocaust denier like you are.
This is clearly untrue. You can't post a single quote where I said anything of the sort.
This isn't the time it's happened either.
You claimed that I had said that 6 million people were gassed. That was a lie too.


Yes. That is something I quoted.
And...?


Because it undermines and refutes the point you were trying to make.
Why else did you cut it out.
Honestly though, not sure if you are playing dumb or not.
It's entirely possible you just don't know what the first part of the quote means...


Lol, wut?

Man, you truly unique individual :eek: Drops that link in his post and then claims he does not believe it to be true. Then for the last two days, has gone and back forward with me saying I was wrong for disputing the 6 million number. Now it never happened was just my imagination, getting dizzy from this:)

The first part of the quote is irrelevant. Can you point to where I said the 6 million is not widely believed by holocaust researchers? Nal and yourself are creating drama for no reason and not sticking to the discussion we had.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Man, you truly unique individual :eek: Drops that link in his post and then claims he does not believe it to be true.

Lol, where did I say that I didn't believe the link I provided.
What thread are you reading.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Then for the last two days, has gone and back forward with me saying I was wrong for disputing the 6 million number. Now it never happened was just my imagination, getting dizzy from this:)

You are confused.
You are not disputing the 6 million number in the same way actual historians do. You are denying that the 6 million number is real based on your own faulty ideas, racism and general bull****.

It's perfectly acceptable to estimate a lower number if you are an actual historian using actual research.

It's not acceptable to use insane conspiracy theories and lies to say that the real number is lower. It's stupid, disgusting and racist.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The first part of the quote is irrelevant.

No, it's very relevant. You were trying to make the point that this fellows research was "definitive".
However the first part of the quote, that you edited out while you were plagerising makes the point that his research has become out of date in the 40 years since 1979.
You knew this, hence you cut it out.
Because you are a liar trying desperately to prop up a racist conspiracy theory.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nal and yourself are creating drama for no reason and not sticking to the discussion we had.

:rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Lol, where did I say that I didn't believe the link I provided.
What thread are you reading.


You are confused.
You are not disputing the 6 million number in the same way actual historians do. You are denying that the 6 million number is real based on your own faulty ideas, racism and general bull****.

It's perfectly acceptable to estimate a lower number if you are an actual historian using actual research.

It's not acceptable to use insane conspiracy theories and lies to say that the real number is lower. It's stupid, disgusting and racist.


No, it's very relevant. You were trying to make the point that this fellows research was "definitive".
However the first part of the quote, that you edited out while you were plagerising makes the point that his research has become out of date in the 40 years since 1979.
You knew this, hence you cut it out.
Because you are a liar trying desperately to prop up a racist conspiracy theory.


:rolleyes:

Yep definitely unique.

Plagiarising. Posting the link with the quote, yep very unique.

Kingmob does know what Plagiarising is and funny really.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yep definitely unique.

Plagiarising. Posting the link with the quote, yep very unique.

Yes, you plagerised this quote:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109359238&postcount=2018

Gerald Reitlinger his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".[3]

No quote box. No link indicating that you took it from some where. No indication other than the fact the grammar is better that it is not your work. You plagerised.

Note how I'm able to quote your posts and show you exactly what you said.

You are now running away from the other points on top of being a racist, a bull**** artist and a holocaust denier.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, you plagerised this quote:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109359238&postcount=2018



No quote box. No link indicating that you took it from some where. No indication other than the fact the grammar is better that it is not your work. You plagerised.

Note how I'm able to quote your posts and show you exactly what you said.

You are now running away from the other points on top of being a racist, a bull**** artist and a holocaust denier.

You are clearly not all there. That a quote from. Gerald Reitlinger bio. Where exactly did i steal his work and passed it off as mine, you clearly have no idea what stealing someone else work entails. We better all stop quoting people and information now as Kingmob thinks its plagiarising

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You are clearly not all there. That a quote of Gerald Reitlinger opinion.

That's not a quote of his opinion...
What are you talking about.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Find where I used his stats and his work and passed it off as mine, you clearly have no idea what stealing someone else work entails. We better all stop quoting people now because Kingmob thinks its plagiarising

I didn't say that's what is plagiarism.
I specifically pointed out what is the plagiarism.
You are now engaging in rather childish deflection.

You are also dodging the fact that you dishonestly edited the quote.
You are also dodging the other lies you've been called out on.

You can dance around with your cute little taunts, but again, no one reading this thread thinks you are scoring points here.
Everyone thinks you are making a fool out of yourself and conspiracy theorists in general.
So please continue.
One of the best ways to combat holocaust denial like yours is to point out it's dishonesty and reduce it to a pathetic joke worthy or mockery and derision.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

That's not a quote of his opinion...
What are you talking about.


I didn't say that's what is plagiarism.
I specifically pointed out what is the plagiarism.
You are now engaging in rather childish deflection.

You are also dodging the fact that you dishonestly edited the quote.
You are also dodging the other lies you've been called out on.

You can dance around with your cute little taunts, but again, no one reading this thread thinks you are scoring points here.
Everyone thinks you are making a fool out of yourself and conspiracy theorists in general.
So please continue.
One of the best ways to combat holocaust denial like yours is to point out it's dishonesty and reduce it to a pathetic joke worthy or mockery and derision.

This what I posted, this Kingmob believes is me plagiarising:rolleyes:

From his bio.
During the 1950s he wrote two books about the Holocaust: The SS: Alibi of a Nation and The Final Solution, both of which achieved large sales. In the latter book, he alleged that Soviet claims of the Auschwitz death toll being 4 million were "ridiculous", and he suggested an alternative figure of 800,000 to 900,000 dead; about 4.2 to 4.5 million was his estimate for the total number of Jewish deaths in the Holocaust.[2] Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls, though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account"
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Reitlinger