ASTI ballot

Sir123 · 10-02-2019 2:30pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Like all the other "cases" they had. Consultants brought gov to court and one. Asti haven't darkened the four courts doors.

But being treated less favourably to other public servants in terms of increments, surely this would have some worth. IMNO have now repudiated PSSA like ASTI did Lansdowne Road.

I'd just be shocked if nurses ended up getting some deal in a few weeks/months and their increment dates weren't affected. ASTI couldn't be treated differently for repudiating an agreement, I would imagine. Totally unfair.

But ya, the court challenges against fempi have been non existent, I do agree with that. Thanks ICTU for continuing to cosy up to government and for continuing to agree to cross-sectoral pay agreements that do not work.

acequion · 10-02-2019 3:14pm

Sir123 wrote: »

But being treated less favourably to other public servants in terms of increments, surely this would have some worth. IMNO have now repudiated PSSA like ASTI did Lansdowne Road.

I'd just be shocked if nurses ended up getting some deal in a few weeks/months and their increment dates weren't affected. ASTI couldn't be treated differently for repudiating an agreement, I would imagine. Totally unfair.

But ya, the court challenges against fempi have been non existent, I do agree with that. Thanks ICTU for continuing to cosy up to government and for continuing to agree to cross-sectoral pay agreements that do not work.

But you see INTO haven't repudiated. Not signing up is not considered repudiation, taking industrial action is.

And I fully agree that not sanctioning the nurses would be totally unfair when ASTI have been sanctioned. The Govt's only response has been that they can't treat any sector differently so ASTI need to ram that down their throats. Not to sanction the nurses but to undo the sanctions, ie delayed increments, to ASTI teachers.

Bobtheman · 10-02-2019 3:27pm

I have a sinking feeling nurses will get a deal if they go all out. Cops showed the way. Let's face it both have more power to screw public. So do primary school teachers. We would only have same impact from spring onwards. ie exam disruption. Nurses have guts. They know people are suffering but on they go. We wet ourselves after two days

acequion · 10-02-2019 4:36pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I have a sinking feeling nurses will get a deal if they go all out. Cops showed the way. Let's face it both have more power to screw public. So do primary school teachers. We would only have same impact from spring onwards. ie exam disruption. Nurses have guts. They know people are suffering but on they go. We wet ourselves after two days

Ah that's not true Bobtheman! Nurses have only got guts now because they've at last got a strong leader. Where were their guts when they were voting by up to 80% + for the straitjacket agreements?? They were being railroaded into them by Doran and felt voiceless. I used to follow their facebook threads. Also, they have the one thing that teachers don't have, UNITY. Add in also more public support.

Give over going on and on about November 2016! We had good leadership then as Kieran Christie had only recently become general secretary and was eager to show support to his members. And in Ed Byrne we had a very good and very militant president. But,for all kinds of reasons the campaign was derailed. One reason was the democratic structures within the union. Standing down industrial action for talks was put to a ballot of SC and a majority opted for it. A big mistake, we now know. Always easy in hindsight.But at least we tried which is a whole lot more than the other teacher unions did. And kept the pay equality campaign to the forefront.

So I live in hope that you might at last consider putting that whole saga to bed!

Moody_mona · 10-02-2019 4:42pm

acequion wrote: »

Add in also more public support.

This has been killing me, how many people had Facebook profile photos "stand with teachers", it's a real downer.

doc_17 · 10-02-2019 4:53pm

ASTI will surely have a case against the government for the suspension of increments arising out of FEMPI being applied. Every ASTI member would be on a higher point on the scale had FEMPI not been applied. If it isn’t applied to nurses then that is unfair.

Bobtheman · 10-02-2019 5:54pm

acequion wrote: »

Ah that's not true Bobtheman! Nurses have only got guts now because they've at last got a strong leader. Where were their guts when they were voting by up to 80% + for the straitjacket agreements?? They were being railroaded into them by Doran and felt voiceless. I used to follow their facebook threads. Also, they have the one thing that teachers don't have, UNITY. Add in also more public support.

Give over going on and on about November 2016! We had good leadership then as Kieran Christie had only recently become general secretary and was eager to show support to his members. And in Ed Byrne we had a very good and very militant president. But,for all kinds of reasons the campaign was derailed. One reason was the democratic structures within the union. Standing down industrial action for talks was put to a ballot of SC and a majority opted for it. A big mistake, we now know. Always easy in hindsight.But at least we tried which is a whole lot more than the other teacher unions did. And kept the pay equality campaign to the forefront.

So I live in hope that you might at last consider putting that whole saga to bed!

I can't put to bed as no evidence anything has changed in SC? No evidence anything has changed among members. The nurses have one main union and that is to their advantage. Let's see what happens with nurses. My prediction is they will threaten all out. .gov will cave. At the moment they have nothing to fear from teacher unions. But I hope that will change
By all out I mean no emergency cover or very very basic
But I am rengaging with the union. Will be at convention and will meet you all for a drink if you go ?

Blaizes · 10-02-2019 6:09pm

Moody_mona wrote: »

This has been killing me, how many people had Facebook profile photos "stand with teachers", it's a real downer.

May be down to pure self interest as in if they get sick who will look after them.But the media have played a part in turning people against teachers ( very unfair imo) in recent years so teachers have become a whipping boy even as the job becomes more and more challenging.

acequion · 10-02-2019 7:00pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I can't put to bed as no evidence anything has changed in SC? No evidence anything has changed among members. The nurses have one main union and that is to their advantage. Let's see what happens with nurses. My prediction is they will threaten all out. .gov will cave. At the moment they have nothing to fear from teacher unions. But I hope that will change
By all out I mean no emergency cover or very very basic
But I am rengaging with the union. Will be at convention and will meet you all for a drink if you go ?

Good to hear

I think it's really hard to predict what will happen with the nurses. Those blueshirts are one helluva tough nut to crack and your hear them rabbiting on and on about their beloved agreement. Interesting that not one thing has been written or said challenging said agreement and revealing how pro employer it is and how union members were bullied into it. Not to my knowledge anyway. And there's no doubt that if the nurses get their way or even some of their way the floodgates will break open and it will be all out demands from the PS. And I just can't see them allowing that to happen.

So an interesting one to watch.

deiseindublin · 10-02-2019 7:25pm

When same happen with Guards, they more or less just found an allowance to increase that no other sector got.

I think a lot of it is gender based too though, GS are traditionally male, Nurses traditionally female and not considered the breadwinner.

Lots will disagree with me but so be it.

Bobtheman · 10-02-2019 10:25pm

The guards threatened to let crimminals etc run rampant. pure and simple. Steps should be taken to avoid that happening again. They deserve a proper union and some ability to strike so we avoid blue flu again

ethical · 10-02-2019 11:00pm

Being totally frank about it there is a whole lot of crap going on in nursing,the amount of "jobs" made for some staff,just box ticking exercises with no patient contact,these people do not deserve any more money,they have clogged up hospitals.......its a bit like what is rampant in teaching now "box ticking".
The nurses on the front line have a case for extra money/allowances.........and the money is there,take it off the so called layers of fcukin box tickin managers that have multiplied over the past 10 years,job sorted!
On a purely selfish note ASTI members should hope NOTHING happens until after 10th June so that at least teachers will move onto their next increment! I know this is a sad state of affairs but it seems to be the only one open to ASTI members otherwise Paschal will be lying in ambush to freeze increments again......................there is not a hope in hell that the ASTI will bother taking a case against the Government,mind you I hear Big Des is one hell of a Trade Unionist if he knows that there is something in it for him......................he dosent wear the red tie for nothing,our Labour fanatic!!!

Bobtheman · 11-02-2019 10:12am

I would delete any reference to IR officials.
Can I ask who is going to convention?
As for box ticking it's all part of managerialism.
You can reduce anything to a learning outcome it seems which we all know is bollox

doc_17 · 11-02-2019 4:52pm

Somebody has blinked

judeboy101 · 11-02-2019 5:58pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Somebody has blinked

Nurses, once they accept invite to LC its a lose. It they walk out its seen as them just being not willing to accept, if they stay they won't get what they want as LC will not go outside agreements.

Sir123 · 11-02-2019 6:47pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Nurses, once they accept invite to LC its a lose. It they walk out its seen as them just being not willing to accept, if they stay they won't get what they want as LC will not go outside agreements.

Didn't LC go outside agreement for the guards? Can't fully remember.

judeboy101 · 11-02-2019 6:59pm

Sir123 wrote: »

Didn't LC go outside agreement for the guards? Can't fully remember.

AGS weren't subject to the agreement #loophole

Sir123 · 11-02-2019 7:04pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

AGS weren't subject to the agreement #loophole

I get you now. We'll have to wait and see with the nurses anyway. Should know in an hour or so.

wirelessdude01 · 11-02-2019 7:06pm

Simon and Pascall press conference at 6:20pm. Guessing the strikes are called off so.

judeboy101 · 11-02-2019 7:14pm

Sir123 wrote: »

I get you now. We'll have to wait and see with the nurses anyway. Should know in an hour or so.

New allowances and increased workload to offset pay increase

Inspector Coptoor · 11-02-2019 7:35pm

Nurses strikes for tomorrow, wed & Thursday.

Will be interesting to see what concessions they get, if any.

Bobtheman · 11-02-2019 7:55pm

If you go out you get results. In our case we would need 2 weeks after April to get a reaction

doc_17 · 11-02-2019 7:55pm

Looks like they got money

Beaulieu · 11-02-2019 8:35pm

Strong leadership reflecting their member's wishes is what won the day. Can't see it happening for us though. No backbone at the top.

acequion · 11-02-2019 9:26pm

But what have they won? Or is just a token gesture? The devil is in the detail I suppose and it remains to be seen.

Sir123 · 11-02-2019 9:40pm

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nurses-strike-called-off-as-labour-court-proposes-enhanced-pay-scale-1.3789419%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiUoK_EwrTgAhUKQRUIHb8yDf0QFjALegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2EAI3Ey6qtgnLlHVE3Lkw0&ampcf=1

Looks like 7.3%. Am I reading this correctly? I'm quite tired this evening.

wirelessdude01 · 11-02-2019 9:41pm

Any rumours on what they got offered? Gonna guess more grade skipping training fund and extra at the end of the scale. Smoke and mirrors. Gonna say now it will be rejected by the membership.

Beaulieu · 11-02-2019 9:43pm

acequion wrote: »

But what have they won? Or is just a token gesture? The devil is in the detail I suppose and it remains to be seen.

True..at first glance it would appear that they have got something close to what they are looking for. The real issue though that I'm pointing out is the strength of TU leadership.

judeboy101 · 11-02-2019 9:49pm

If I'm reading this correctly they have created a new tier of pay scale that nurses can move onto if they have particular qualifications. Lol

wirelessdude01 · 11-02-2019 9:58pm

judeboy101 wrote:

If I'm reading this correctly they have created a new tier of pay scale that nurses can move onto if they have particular qualifications. Lol

Funny how additional qualifications mean nothing in teaching, wonder if our unions will go after this in the next negotiations if it is indeed true.

ASTI ballot

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