ASTI ballot

coillsaille

According to the article:

"Many of the nurses in line for this salary increase would have been due increases under existing plans."

So if that's accurate surely there isn't a chance the members will accept it?

judeboy101

coillsaille wrote: »

According to the article:

"Many of the nurses in line for this salary increase would have been due increases under existing plans."

So if that's accurate surely there isn't a chance the members will accept it?

Depends how union bosses spin it. One thing for sure, not one extra nurse will come home for this.

Benicetomonty

Surely the ASTI has to push for the restoration of increments now? Not only were the nurses not subjected to FEMPI, they went out on strike having voted to ACCEPT the PSSA months earlier! No matter what way you look at it, selective application of FEMPI must be utterly discriminatory and illegal? Not a word from ICTU yet, quelle surprise.

Sir123

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Surely the ASTI has to push for the restoration of increments now? Not only were the nurses not subjected to FEMPI, they went out on strike having voted to ACCEPT the PSSA months earlier! No matter what way you look at it, selective application of FEMPI must be utterly discriminatory and illegal? Not a word from ICTU yet, quelle surprise.

Very true and I fully agree but don't you know government will only agree this with ASTI if they formally accept PSSA. However increment freeze happened under Lansdowne Road agreement so my own point is debatable. What we know is that the increment freeze is unfair and at this point unjust.

judeboy101

Would it be fair to say that this agreement literally pulls the ladder up in any nurses overseas and newbie nurses? Seems to be the classic FFG tactic of divide and conquer.

Benicetomonty

Sir123 wrote: »

Very true and I fully agree but don't you know government will only agree this with ASTI if they formally accept PSSA. However increment freeze happened under Lansdowne Road agreement so my own point is debatable. What we know is that the increment freeze is unfair and at this point unjust.

Well, if the govt are open to that, we could hold a special convention to overturn the rejection and receive our retrospective increments. Then, like the nurses, we ignore the fact that we signed up and go on strike anyway without having to worry about FEMPI!

In all seriousness, I just cannot get over how little attention this is receiving. Have the ASTI even made a statement on this? Even given their support of the nurses plight, they must surely see the injustice here!

acequion

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Well, if the govt are open to that, we could hold a special convention to overturn the rejection and receive our retrospective increments. Then, like the nurses, we ignore the fact that we signed up and go on strike anyway without having to worry about FEMPI!

In all seriousness, I just cannot get over how little attention this is receiving. Have the ASTI even made a statement on this? Even given their support of the nurses plight, they must surely see the injustice here!

I would hope so. Something for members to kick up an almighty fuss about. But like everything, the fuss has to come from the ground up. And knowing teachers, will they even bother??

Sir123

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Well, if the govt are open to that, we could hold a special convention to overturn the rejection and receive our retrospective increments. Then, like the nurses, we ignore the fact that we signed up and go on strike anyway without having to worry about FEMPI!

In all seriousness, I just cannot get over how little attention this is receiving. Have the ASTI even made a statement on this? Even given their support of the nurses plight, they must surely see the injustice here!

Fightback have just given a great analysis on FB/Twitter. Very interesting to highlight again how government were very quick to impose financial penalties on ASTI members even before industrial action began.

Benicetomonty

Sir123 wrote: »

Fightback have just given a great analysis on FB/Twitter. Very interesting to highlight again how government were very quick to impose financial penalties on ASTI members even before industrial action began.

Yeah, I read it there. Notable that asti received the news in October that the DES would not be back-paying for the frozen increments after saying theyd consider doing so if the PSSA was accepted. Nurses, on the other hand, arent even penalised to begin with. Almost laughable the contempt in which secondary teachers are held. How we put up with it, I do not know.

SligoBrewer

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Yeah, I read it there. Notable that asti received the news in October that the DES would not be back-paying for the frozen increments after saying theyd consider doing so if the PSSA was accepted. Nurses, on the other hand, arent even penalised to begin with. Almost laughable the contempt in which secondary teachers are held. How we put up with it, I do not know.

Because we are idiots.

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Yeah, I read it there. Notable that asti received the news in October that the DES would not be back-paying for the frozen increments after saying theyd consider doing so if the PSSA was accepted. Nurses, on the other hand, arent even penalised to begin with. Almost laughable the contempt in which secondary teachers are held. How we put up with it, I do not know.

Interestingly Ingrid Miley pointed out the possible discrepancy just there on the 9 news now.

But don't worry, the govt. will wrap it up in some jiggery pokery. And anyway, the govt.s response is "ya well teacher unions whatcha going to do about it... lunch time strikes... LOL! "



Q1. Calculate the probability of strike action by a teachers union between the Mocks and State exams.

Answer: Zero

Inspector Coptoor

INTO really need to step up

Icsics

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

INTO really need to step up

I'd put money on them going into 'talks' before the Easter conference

wirelessdude01

Icsics wrote:

I'd put money on them going into 'talks' before the Easter conference

I would imagine them means all 3 teaching unions and I would imagine that is the exact scenario that will occur. Then we will get the same stunt as last year with a choreographed motion/speach from all 3 leaderships that gives the impression of a unified approach and then nothing after it.

deiseindublin

Being discussed on Tonight show now, tomorrow's Indo has headline that teachers mulling strike.
(and pigs might fly.....).

wirelessdude01

deiseindublin wrote:

Being discussed on Tonight show now, tomorrow's Indo has headline that teachers mulling strike. (and pigs might fly.....).

Sure we've been 'mulling' for quite some time while the INTO 'consult' with their members.

coillsaille

Looks like the guards are gearing up now, report in today's Irish Times.

This is from the end of the piece:

"A number of union leaders also believe the industrial peace clause in the public service accord is now dead as following the Government’s decision not to apply financial penalties to nurses for going on strike – as it did to second-level teachers in 2016 – it could never credible threaten to apply sanctions on any other group for breaching the accord."

SligoBrewer

coillsaille wrote: »

Looks like the guards are gearing up now, report in today's Irish Times.

This is from the end of the piece:

"A number of union leaders also believe the industrial peace clause in the public service accord is now dead as following the Government’s decision not to apply financial penalties to nurses for going on strike – as it did to second-level teachers in 2016 – it could never credible threaten to apply sanctions on any other group for breaching the accord."

3 years of incremental back pay gonna be sweet.

Benicetomonty

SligoBrewer wrote: »

3 years of incremental back pay gonna be sweet.

Back to non cooperation with CP hours and JCT next month at the latest until those increments are paid and brought back up to date. Simples.

judeboy101

See inmo telling members to accept deal. Won't be 95% no this time.

wirelessdude01

judeboy101 wrote:

See inmo telling members to accept deal. Won't be 95% no this time.

Was sure they would put it forward with no recommendation.

SleetAndSnow

Hey guys, not a teacher but sister is currently a newly qualified teacher (well two years ago but still only on maternity contracts in schools). I believe what's happening is shocking and something does need to happen. It's just public support is near 0. The journal (I know I know) posted an article about the TUI mulling over things and the majority of comments mention the usual "best paid.. summer holidays.. mid terms.." you know, the general unknowing people who don't know a lot of teachers don't get paid etc.

Do you think it's possible to increase public support or has the media just made it 0? Does public support even matter or is it more so disruption?

evolving_doors

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Hey guys, not a teacher but sister is currently a newly qualified teacher (well two years ago but still only on maternity contracts in schools). I believe what's happening is shocking and something does need to happen. It's just public support is near 0. The journal (I know I know) posted an article about the TUI mulling over things and the majority of comments mention the usual "best paid.. summer holidays.. mid terms.." you know, the general unknowing people who don't know a lot of teachers don't get paid etc.

Do you think it's possible to increase public support or has the media just made it 0? Does public support even matter or is it more so disruption?

Teachers are just too appeasing. The last thing teachers need is the public supporting them on the picket. Disrupting is the only way forward.

acequion

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Hey guys, not a teacher but sister is currently a newly qualified teacher (well two years ago but still only on maternity contracts in schools). I believe what's happening is shocking and something does need to happen. It's just public support is near 0. The journal (I know I know) posted an article about the TUI mulling over things and the majority of comments mention the usual "best paid.. summer holidays.. mid terms.." you know, the general unknowing people who don't know a lot of teachers don't get paid etc.

Do you think it's possible to increase public support or has the media just made it 0? Does public support even matter or is it more so disruption?

Good questions. I do think the media have indeed tried to make it 0. But though nurses have way more support I found there was a fair bit of support out there for pay equality and find it so frustrating that all teacher unions aren't making a huge fuss.

I also question the importance of public support. There's no doubt that it helps a lot but at the end of the day workers have to go for it. Anyone strike shy because they're afraid of the public just don't have the balls for any campaign.

coillsaille

I just wish we (meaning our unions) would just forget about public support and not even consider it when deciding on actions to take. The media will always portray teachers in a negative light to a public that needs little encouragement to condemn our fight against inequality, deteriorating conditions, damaging reforms of the education system, etc.

Many Joe and Joan Public's out there will always be anti teacher. Some of them remember crappy, lazy, or just plain nasty teachers from their own school days and assume that teachers today are still the same, others just see the holidays and can't see past that.

Whatever the reasons it isn't going to change, so our focus when deciding on actions should be on disruption alone and not give a flying #*&% what the public or media think or say.

solerina

deiseindublin wrote: »

Being discussed on Tonight show now, tomorrow's Indo has headline that teachers mulling strike.
(and pigs might fly.....).

Yeah pigs would want to fly... it’s the TUI 😂😂😂 some chance, they always agree to every useless pay agreement !!!

Sir123

INTO slams ECJ lol.... How about slamming the Irish Government who imposed this in the first place by actually balloting members for Industrial Action NOW... Wakey wakey INTO.. Need I say any more.

https://www.into.ie/ROI/NewsEvents/PressReleases/PressReleases2019/EuropeanCourtofJusticePayinequalityJudgement140219/Title,47602,en.php

Icsics

Sir123 wrote: »

INTO slams ECJ lol.... How about slamming the Irish Government who imposed this in the first place by actually balloting members for Industrial Action NOW... Wakey wakey INTO.. Need I say any more.

https://www.into.ie/ROI/NewsEvents/PressReleases/PressReleases2019/EuropeanCourtofJusticePayinequalityJudgement140219/Title,47602,en.php

They were trying to

doc_17

solerina wrote: »

Yeah pigs would want to fly... it’s the TUI 😂😂😂 some chance, they always agree to every useless pay agreement !!!

TUI, ASTI and INTO are all in the PSSA.

acequion

From what I hear anecdotally and read on the INMO facebook page there are big time divide and conquer strategies at play in the nurses' dispute resolution. And therefore, enough of the nurses might vote yes to get this over the line while many will be left with zero gains and very demoralised after 3 days of strike. Many are bitterly vowing to leave the union and many more are furious that their ballot won't be until March when momentum will certainly be much lessened,if not lost.

Sound familiar ASTI members? This FG govt seems to have mastered the knack of diffusing worker campaigns with sinister psychological tactics. In fact I heard that when they were "talking" to the nurses they behaved exactly as when "talking" to ASTI negotiators. They turned up late, hung about on their phones in the corridor while negotiators waited in the negotiating room. Like WTF??:eek:

It really would be a victory against such tactics if the nurses would stay united and vote no and I guess that remains to be seen. You would wonder though about their general secretary. Many on the facebook page are bitterly disappointed in her having fully trusted her. They're not as battle weary and cynical as we are in ASTI and are now learning the hard way that union leaders are at best suspect and at worst downright traitors. Maybe those who keep harping at ASTI failure in November 2016 might consider what a formidable machine ordinary union members are up against when they go down the risky road of industrial action and lay off with the grand old duke of York lecture.

However,the answer to it all really is quite simple. "United we stand, divided we fall". And that's why teachers always fall.