ASTI ballot

Icsics · 30-03-2019 12:32pm

ethical wrote: »

We all know,(especially teachers and most public servants) that Michael Noonan and his ilk preached to the "outside world" that the recession was over and everything was hunky dory again.Didnt the same Mr.Noonan also say that "all the low hanging fruit" had been harvested! Nothing can be further from the truth! There is quite a pot of low hanging fruit yet to be harvested and its never going to be! The jobs for the boys (and ladies also!) brigade is alive and well.
We,those of us involved in sport,hear the line " giving something back " and there are many sportspeople who have never forgotten where they started out their careers and willingly return and coach,give time ,chat and promote their old club/team. Why don't teachers do the same rather than crucify their "once" colleagues.
Unfortunately ,as far as the teaching profession goes the opposite is the truth.If I see another feckin retired gold plated pensioner(I'm talking here of the full pension,post holder and in many cases Principal who took the system for fools and got away with it) come in to do CP Hours,collect 7-800 cash and talk sh1t for two hours while the young mother on a 4 hour CID is worried that she will not make it to the creche on time to collect her baby.Do not get me started about the interview boards, (1000 euro per day!),there are a shower of greedy Sh1tes on the circuit collecting "low hanging fruit" and no one gives a damn. The money wasted on these parasites could employ countless teachers and provide assistance for needy school children.Unions are only aiding and abetting the cause of thes money grabbers.Teaching stinks to high heavens in Ireland.Bast*rds ripping off the future teachers for all just to line their own pockets........did they not ever hear that "there are no pockets in shrouds".I call ,once again,for an enquiry into the practices of ETBs and CEIST run schools ,was it not once a crime to misuse taxpayers money!

Agree 100% ethical. Teaching is full of quangos & self appointed gurus....u can add ERST, JMB, NCCA, JCT, NBSS, NAPD to ur list. All experts, all gurus, but none of them teaching actual classes!
We had the pleasure of a 'team teaching' talk, turned out the facilitator had never actually 'team taught' himself but was an expert in the area.
And don't get me started on people getting AP1s with no qualification on the area over those who have.

Sir123 · 12-04-2019 8:53pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/teachers-may-seek-additional-pay-benefits-on-foot-of-nurses-pay-proposals-1.3857590?mode=ampt

It seems like we're at the end of the government's list when it comes to favouritism. One rule for one and one for another as they say.

We had already speculated this but it's only arising now via asti. Fempi one group ane don't Fempi the other. Just goes to show you how serious they take us. NOT.

I'm sure it will dominate convention to some degree. Happy Easter everyone.

Bobtheman · 15-04-2019 7:25am

As far as I know the nurses have not voted yet on their deal ? I doubt it will pass
We are here- we have no support from the TUI or INTO - unless I missed something?
I'm willing to go out for a couple of weeks on this issue and the bull**** that's being peddled by department as educational reform.
As a union the ground needs to be prepared and the idea sold. You would probably not get an all out strike passed but you might get rolling strikes passed ? Ie 5 days
That's the reality.
Btw will be at convention. Will the rest of you ?

acequion · 15-04-2019 8:27pm

I'll be there.

Icsics · 16-04-2019 12:44am

I’ll be there too...important VP election this yr

Bobtheman · 16-04-2019 7:28am

I have given up on any real interest in VP election. My last hope for an Asti president was the ex docker. Cant recall his name (no disrespect).
They all promise the same.
It's SC that showed a lack of planning/ strategy last time. We can only hope they have their act together next time- if there is a next time

SligoBrewer · 16-04-2019 3:08pm

acequion wrote: »

I'll be there.

Likewise

MacGyver007 · 17-04-2019 7:08pm

acequion wrote: »

I'll be there.

As will I

Inspector Coptoor · 18-04-2019 8:48pm

I’ll be there too

evolving_doors · 18-04-2019 11:30pm

I'll have to get the notes off ye later

acequion · 19-04-2019 10:02pm

lol

:D:

Hope they're worth it!

Sir123 · 28-04-2019 6:30pm

Icsics wrote: »

I’ll be there too...important VP election this yr

An interesting one it was. Still don't think they'll have us out anytime soon. We need either TUI and/or INTO with us and judging by their leaders, total pushovers.

I hope they sort out the increment dates for all ASTI members. It's actually quite outrageous that the ASTI have to pursue a legal challenge against the government instead of them just coming forward and doing the right thing. Pascal's probably just laughing at us again and again.

In fairness, the PSSA is dead imo. In fact, I was very surprised with Joe McHugh when he highlighted that they are "committed" to 2014 teachers regarding their loses so far compared to all LPTs that have entered the profession since 2011. I could go on and on again folks. It's pushing the can down the road again and again.

It's time Leo and his cronies had a good long look at themselves. No LPT or really anyone affected by this discrimination should be voting for Fine Gael on the 24th. They clearly are trying to fight their way out of a paper bag by trying to quench strike action in the sector and hope that it'll die down.

For those voting, which I hope you all are, please take a long look at what they are doing to us. Will they really sort this once and for all if they continue to be re-elected? Not sounding pessimistic myself, but I wouldn't count on anything with this lot of Fine Gaelers...

mtoutlemonde · 28-04-2019 8:46pm

Sir123 wrote: »

An interesting one it was. Still don't think they'll have us out anytime soon. We need either TUI and/or INTO with us and judging by their leaders, total pushovers.

I hope they sort out the increment dates for all ASTI members. It's actually quite outrageous that the ASTI have to pursue a legal challenge against the government instead of them just coming forward and doing the right thing. Pascal's probably just laughing at us again and again.

In fairness, the PSSA is dead imo. In fact, I was very surprised with Joe McHugh when he highlighted that they are "committed" to 2014 teachers regarding their loses so far compared to all LPTs that have entered the profession since 2011. I could go on and on again folks. It's pushing the can down the road again and again.

It's time Leo and his cronies had a good long look at themselves. No LPT or really anyone affected by this discrimination should be voting for Fine Gael on the 24th. They clearly are trying to fight their way out of a paper bag by trying to quench strike action in the sector and hope that it'll die down.

For those voting, which I hope you all are, please take a long look at what they are doing to us. Will they really sort this once and for all if they continue to be re-elected? Not sounding pessimistic myself, but I wouldn't count on anything with this lot of Fine Gaelers...

It was Finna Fail that brought us to where we are today. Fine Gael turning the country around like they did in the eighties albeit slowly and definitely not perfectly.

I'd focus my anger at the weak TUI and INTO and the gombeens that called the special convention.

acequion · 28-04-2019 9:37pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

It was Finna Fail that brought us to where we are today. Fine Gael turning the country around like they did in the eighties albeit slowly and definitely not perfectly.

I'd focus my anger at the weak TUI and INTO and the gombeens that called the special convention.

Re your first point, you do have a point, but the Blueshirts love fiscal rectitude and think no spending [except on their rich friends] is the answer. It's not.

Agree re your second point. Remember the chief gombeen who called the special convention had the smile wiped off his face for the second year in a row. So Karma sometimes works.

@Sir 123, not only should no new entrant vote FG, no public servant should either! I certainly won't. I'd chop off my hand before I'd vote for that shower!:mad:

Yes it was an interesting convention and fairly upbeat. It may yet be a case of slow and steady wins the race. We'll fight on!

Sir123 · 28-04-2019 9:39pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

It was Finna Fail that brought us to where we are today. Fine Gael turning the country around like they did in the eighties albeit slowly and definitely not perfectly.

I'd focus my anger at the weak TUI and INTO and the gombeens that called the special convention.

Yes, they've been both complicit to be fair. However, it was Fine Gael/Labour that cut allowances, these allowances that we're fighting to get back on our payslip now.

I totally agree with the weak TUI/INTO. It's just I wouldn't be going out voting for any Fine Gael politician at the moment as they seem to be out of touch with what we're dealing with. Had one come to the door who pretty much remained silent and dodged the question on pay equality. Totally out of touch and not getting my vote.

mtoutlemonde · 28-04-2019 9:44pm

Sir123 wrote: »

Yes, they've been both complicit to be fair. However, it was Fine Gael/Labour that cut allowances, these allowances that we're fighting to get back on our payslip now.

I totally agree with the weak TUI/INTO. It's just I wouldn't be going out voting for any Fine Gael politician at the moment as they seem to be out of touch with what we're dealing with. Had one come to the door who pretty much remained silent and dodged the question on pay equality. Totally out of touch.

So who do we vote for? Vote Fianna Fail in and start the cycle again? Pay restoration and more, then a few years down the road the NQTs of those days will have pay cut again.

I vote to remove the civil servants making the decisions.

Sir123 · 28-04-2019 9:50pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

So who do we vote for? Vote Fianna Fail in and start the cycle again? Pay restoration and more, then a few years down the road the NQTs of those days will have pay cut again.

I vote to remove the civil servants making the decisions.

We can all vote for whoever we want. I just personally wouldn't be voting for this 'shower'. They real piss me off. Remember, public servants are earning less and working longer under their continued reform. The public sector have always been at the bottom of their list compared to Fianna Fáil.

acequion · 28-04-2019 11:12pm

Sir123 wrote: »

We can all vote for whoever we want. I just personally wouldn't be voting for this 'shower'. They real piss me off. Remember, public servants are earning less and working longer under their continued reform. The public sector have always been at the bottom of their list compared to Fianna Fáil.

Totally agree with that last bit. FF are by far the lesser of the two evils when it comes to the public sector. And that doesn't make me a fan and I haven't voted for FF in centuries, but I would vote for them before the other shower and certainly if it meant getting them out. There is no other alternative anyway, except Independent, which I voted last time but that doesn't really offer us an alternative. And we really need to get rid of the blue-shirts before they destroy us completely!

Icsics · 29-04-2019 10:10am

It was the quietest convention in a long time, but I'm very happy with the VP & other elected position, where there was much needed change.

doc_17 · 30-04-2019 1:12pm

acequion wrote: »

Totally agree with that last bit. FF are by far the lesser of the two evils when it comes to the public sector. And that doesn't make me a fan and I haven't voted for FF in centuries, but I would vote for them before the other shower and certainly if it meant getting them out. There is no other alternative anyway, except Independent, which I voted last time but that doesn't really offer us an alternative. And we really need to get rid of the blue-shirts before they destroy us completely!

Pay cuts, PS Pension Levy, USC, cuts to tax credits, cut payment to S&S whilst simultaneously increasing the hours we had to do it, CP hours, introduced the Inspectorate and the Teaching Council, introduced lesser paid teachers to the profession, removal of A & B posts. Introduced post 04 to the likes of me, cut pesnions of new entrants. That's just a few of the top of my head.

I'm no Fine Gael fan, but some of those cuts are being reversed and some have been. I'm never voting FF again. Never.

doc_17 · 30-04-2019 1:17pm

acequion wrote: »

Totally agree with that last bit. FF are by far the lesser of the two evils when it comes to the public sector. And that doesn't make me a fan and I haven't voted for FF in centuries, but I would vote for them before the other shower and certainly if it meant getting them out. There is no other alternative anyway, except Independent, which I voted last time but that doesn't really offer us an alternative. And we really need to get rid of the blue-shirts before they destroy us completely!

Pay cuts, PS Pension Levy, USC, cuts to tax credits, cut payment to S&S whilst simultaneously increasing the hours we had to do it, CP hours, introduced the Inspectorate and the Teaching Council, introduced lesser paid teachers to the profession, removal of A & B posts. Introduced post 04 to the likes of me, cut pesnions of new entrants. That's just a few of the top of my head.

I'm no Fine Gael fan, but some of those cuts are being reversed and some have been. I'm never voting FF again. Never.

Sir123 · 30-04-2019 5:30pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Pay cuts, PS Pension Levy, USC, cuts to tax credits, cut payment to S&S whilst simultaneously increasing the hours we had to do it, CP hours, introduced the Inspectorate and the Teaching Council, introduced lesser paid teachers to the profession, removal of A & B posts. Introduced post 04 to the likes of me, cut pesnions of new entrants. That's just a few of the top of my head.

I'm no Fine Gael fan, but some of those cuts are being reversed and some have been. I'm never voting FF again. Never.

I disagree. Some of these cuts have been reversed so so slightly and others have stayed permanent or even totally reformed altogether.

The pension levy introduced by Fianna Fáil has been made permanent by guess who? Fine Gael.. under a new fancy name the ASC...

New career average pension introduced in 2013 was introduced by who? Fine Gael/Labour.

New sick leave here to stay as they said. Guess who, Fine Gael.

The PSSA, created by Pascal and co (aka Fine Gael), that still failed to deliver pay equality to teachers... Guess who again? Fine Gael.

You can't really say Fine Gael are the better even if you said that you're not a big fan yourself.

I see Fine Gael as the group of politicians that continue to try to get their way out of a paper bag so we won't strike. We saw this with the jargon at convention and we'll continue to see it until they're out. They are anti public sector and have a history of this.

doc_17 · 30-04-2019 9:23pm

Agree with you on the career average pension scheme but the rest I stand by. FF’s management of the economy led to our terms and conditions being decimated. FG were given all the opportunity they needed by the gross incompetence of FF. twice in 30 years they took our county to the brink. They are clean useless.

acequion · 30-04-2019 10:11pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Agree with you on the career average pension scheme but the rest I stand by. FF’s management of the economy led to our terms and conditions being decimated. FG were given all the opportunity they needed by the gross incompetence of FF. twice in 30 years they took our county to the brink. They are clean useless.

Maybe, but believe me FG are even worse where public servants are concerned. And most of the major cuts you mentioned were inflicted by FG and their sidekicks, Labour.

Like I say, I may vote FF if they're the only alternative to FG. But one thing is sure and certain, I'll never ever vote either FG or Labour again. NEVER!

doc_17 · 01-05-2019 10:37am

doc_17 wrote: »

Pay cuts, PS Pension Levy, USC, cuts to tax credits, cut payment to S&S whilst simultaneously increasing the hours we had to do it, CP hours, introduced the Inspectorate and the Teaching Council, introduced lesser paid teachers to the profession, removal of A & B posts. Introduced post 04 to the likes of me, cut pesnions of new entrants. That's just a few of the top of my head.

I'm no Fine Gael fan, but some of those cuts are being reversed and some have been. I'm never voting FF again. Never.

Most of those cuts were introduced by Fine Gael?? I doubt there’s rewriting of history here or I’m imagining the Oct 2008 - Feb 2011 period.

The only one I’m not sure about is the S&S. I can’t be sure if that was done by FF or very early in FG/Lab.

Cutting the pension of new entrants is something FF also did in 2004. FG/Lab did the same in 2012/2013.

The moratorium on Posts was also FF I believe.

I think we are all agreed that FG would like to pay teachers based on performance etc. and that would be awful. I know they decimated the sick leave arrangements. I know they did other things. But the ones I listed, the vast majority, came from FF.

JD3112 · 01-05-2019 7:49pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Most of those cuts were introduced by Fine Gael?? I doubt there’s rewriting of history here or I’m imagining the Oct 2008 - Feb 2011 period.

The only one I’m not sure about is the S&S. I can’t be sure if that was done by FF or very early in FG/Lab.

Cutting the pension of new entrants is something FF also did in 2004. FG/Lab did the same in 2012/2013.

The moratorium on Posts was also FF I believe.

I think we are all agreed that FG would like to pay teachers based on performance etc. and that would be awful. I know they decimated the sick leave arrangements. I know they did other things. But the ones I listed, the vast majority, came from FF.

Well what about their treatment of ASTI members using Fempi?

Punishing the teachers for standing up for themselves but letting the nurses and Gardaí away with it.

Fine Gael/Richard Bruton...... Party/minister of inequality

doc_17 · 01-05-2019 8:56pm

JD3112 wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

Most of those cuts were introduced by Fine Gael?? I doubt there’s rewriting of history here or I’m imagining the Oct 2008 - Feb 2011 period.

The only one I’m not sure about is the S&S. I can’t be sure if that was done by FF or very early in FG/Lab.

Cutting the pension of new entrants is something FF also did in 2004. FG/Lab did the same in 2012/2013.

The moratorium on Posts was also FF I believe.

I think we are all agreed that FG would like to pay teachers based on performance etc. and that would be awful. I know they decimated the sick leave arrangements. I know they did other things. But the ones I listed, the vast majority, came from FF.

Well what about their treatment of ASTI members using Fempi?

Punishing the teachers for standing up for themselves but letting the nurses and Gardaí away with it.

Fine Gael/Richard Bruton...... Party/minister of inequality

That’s a different issue. And it was disgraceful.

doc_17 · 01-05-2019 8:58pm

ASTI should take the government to court and get back what they lost.

political analyst · 02-05-2019 12:38am

doc_17 wrote: »

ASTI should take the government to court and get back what they lost.

As was said at the conference, that is being considered.

Bobtheman · 02-05-2019 10:54am

I was at convention. It was disappointing. The policy seems to be wait and see.
I have asked SC to survey NQTs so we can if they want industrial action.
I believe they should strike that its the right thing to do but there are valid counter arguments to that. The failure of the INTO or TUI to ever back us is a brake for many.
My own view is that a 10 day strike-spaced in individual days is effective. Its limited and would keep it on the agenda. I doubt it would reach 5 days before an offer of some sort would be made.

As to arguments about which party screwed us more-FF/FG/Lab/ plus the Ind alliance are supporting FEMPI
Im not sure what SF policy is on this.
Governments love authoritarian power- and the FEMP act is just an act.

ASTI ballot

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