Decorative Fence Spears, illegal ?

Scoondal

I am getting a fence installed with decorative "spears" on top. My installer has told me that they must have an "integrated metal ball" on the point for legal injury reasons. So if someone climbs over my fence, the normal point could injure them and they could claim against me.
This has made my brain race.
There is a wire fence to the rear of my property with barbed wire on top. It was installed by the property developer. If someone climbs over that and has an injury, am I liable ?
If someone enters my garden and falls on a skateboard, am I liable ?
And so on ...
I will also contact my house insurer to get clarification. But any information here is very appreciated.

Homer

Welcome to 2018 where you have to make it safe for people to be able to intrude on your property! Id rather leave them there and risk getting sued but thats just me.

Scoondal

Homer wrote: »

Welcome to 2018 where you have to make it safe for people to be able to intrude on your property! Id rather leave them there and risk getting sued but thats just me.

Thanks. That is exactly my opinion. The rear of my property is private. I have fences and hedging, so it is obviously closed to public access. The front of my property is open, so the postman can deliver the bills and people can ring my doorbell.

But I just read a case from a few years ago in which a child climbed over a fence to retrieve a ball and he was awarded €9,500. So, the home owners insurance was increased after that, I presume.

There was another article that said that signs such as "People enter this property at their own risk" are a waste of time.

runawaybishop

You cannot attempt to deliberately injure someone trespassing on your property.

Scoondal wrote: »

If someone enters my garden and falls on a skateboard, am I liable ?
And so on ...

You'd be grand on that bit.

Del2005

runawaybishop wrote: »

You'd be grand on that bit.

With our litigious nature I doubt it. If someone who breaks into your property is willing to sue you for injuries a skateboard is a good an excuse as any.

Homer

runawaybishop wrote: »

You cannot attempt to deliberately injure someone trespassing on your property.

Its decorative? Where is the intent to injure?

Homer

Like this is purely decorative? I didn't design it nor did I intend that it might injure somebody trying to trespass onto my property.

Scoondal

Homer wrote: »

Like this is purely decorative? I didn't design it nor did I intend that it might injure somebody trying to trespass onto my property.

That has the little ball on top of the spike.

Scoondal

runawaybishop wrote: »

You cannot attempt to deliberately injure someone trespassing on your property.



I think I will install motion sensors but no cameras. I will be alerted, take my "weapon" and confront the intruder. Then when I injure the intruder, there is no video evidence. I can simply say that he/she attacked me and I defended myself.

martinr5232

Scoondal wrote:

That has the little ball on top of the spike.

Get the grinder out so ðŸ˜

runawaybishop

Del2005 wrote: »

With our litigious nature I doubt it. If someone who breaks into your property is willing to sue you for injuries a skateboard is a good an excuse as any.

Nah, there is legislation that protects you.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1995/act/10/enacted/en/html&ved=2ahUKEwiph4nLqobeAhXnJ8AKHaAtA4IQFjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw20k3l9fygOTNHDdx1G0-AR&cshid=1539533881650

runawaybishop

Homer wrote: »

Its decorative? Where is the intent to injure?

If it's decorative it is fine, if it has pointy bits designed to injure someone it is not.

Homer

runawaybishop wrote: »

If it's decorative it is fine, if it has pointy bits designed to injure someone it is not.

Yeah but the pointy bits are not "designed" to injure somebody. In the same way a knife is not designed to injure someone. If however you run or fall onto either you will probably seriously injure yourself. That doesn't mean that I cant have either?

Is there some legislation referring to what you are claiming?

runawaybishop

Homer wrote: »

Yeah but the pointy bits are not "designed" to injure somebody. In the same way a knife is not designed to injure someone. If however you run or fall onto either you will probably seriously injure yourself. That doesn't mean that I cant have either?

Is there some legislation referring to what you are claiming?

Yup, like 4 posts back I posted it.

Knife lying around, sound. Knives stuck on top of a wall, lawsuit.

It's a judge youd have to convince that a sharp fence isn't designed to injure someone attempting to cross it. It's weird though as you see security fencing that would rip you to bits all over the place. Maybe if the purpose is clear it's ok?

Edit: did some looking, apparently if the 'deterent' is somewhere you can't casually happen upon it then it is ok, so something like 8 foot off the ground is fine. Still can't be hidden though as you can't lure someone to injure themselves.

bk

Homer wrote: »

Yeah but the pointy bits are not "designed" to injure somebody.

Just to point out, they very much are. You might have gotten so use to them and think they are decorative, but the whole reason fences evolved to have spikes on them, is to be a now somewhat old fashioned form of security to cause inquiry to those who might climb over them. That is their reason for being and that is how a court would likely see it. Specially if the court heard that there is ways to make them safe (the ball), that your fence installer recommended those balls and you opted for spikes, it wouldn't look good.

Victor

Homer wrote: »

Welcome to 2018 where you have to make it safe for people to be able to intrude on your property! Id rather leave them there and risk getting sued but thats just me.

No everyone entering your property by unorthodox means has nefarious intent. It could be the emergency services or a child that has been locked out (I climbed through the small kitchen window when I was 11).

Homer

So the answer to the OP would be that while they’re not illegal, you may end up getting sued if somebody impales themselves on your fence regardless of their intent?

lgk

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's weird though as you see security fencing that would rip you to bits all over the place. Maybe if the purpose is clear it's ok?

Palisade fencing is allowed in commercial settings, prohibited without planning permission in domestic settings.

Homer

lgk wrote: »

Palisade fencing is allowed in commercial settings, prohibited without planning permission in domestic settings.

But palisade fencing is more industrial looking than what was being discussed in this thread I feel. I know palisade fencing and the top of it was designed with security in mind.
The more traditional fencing such as the one pictured below are not palisade, not security fences and I would say do not require planning once kept to a reasonable height (which most are)



Unless there is some specific bylaw that mentions it in more detail?

Victor

lgk wrote: »

Palisade fencing is allowed in commercial settings, prohibited without planning permission in domestic settings.

That's largely down to aesthetics.

lgk

Homer wrote: »

But palisade fencing is more industrial looking than what was being discussed in this thread I feel.

I replied to the line stating 'It's weird though as you see security fencing that would rip you to bits all over the place.'

Regardless, the Planning regs state that anything classed as 'metal palisade or other security fence.' requires planning permission in a domestic setting. There is no elaboration on the definition of security fence, but the fact that security it being discussed suggests this could be considered security fencing. A call to your local planning office will likely clear it up.

That white cast iron fencing falls under the definition of palisade fencing, vertical pales fixed to horizontal rails.

D3V!L

All around the front of Trinity College is tall spiked fencing. It does date back a good bit though.