Farming: A dangerous occupation.

Muckit

I'd say the last time you seen a 35 was on a bus! But feel free to lecture us!

Cattlepen

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ya. This is a video of cattle mans setup. He makes great use of the whip.
https://youtu.be/m92xY2wIKJk
No wonder he gets hurt all the time

Who’s setup is that

TheBoyConor

Muckit wrote:

I'd say the last time you seen a 35 was on a bus! But feel free to lecture us!

That's the attitude I'm taking about - completely deflecting from the actual issue and having a pop.

And it don't make a difference whether it's a little old 35 or a big T7.235, the same principles for accident prevention ought to apply.

SuperTortoise

TheBoyConor wrote: »

This used to be the case in construction and things only improved when three HSA started to come down heavy on those who disregarded basic safety, either through hefty fines or by shutting sites down with prohibition notice until the contractor pulled up their socks.

And we're now in a situation where it's the complete opposite on building sites, clipboard warriors fresh out of college dictating work procedures when they would'nt know which end of a shovel to sink in the ground.


The HSA done a lot of good on the buildings around the late 90's and early 00's, the problem now is there's so many of them they need to invent work to make it look like they're busy in order to justify their wage. Farming will go the same way as the building sites, almost impossible to do a day's work.

emaherx

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That's the attitude I'm taking about - completely deflecting from the actual issue and having a pop.

And it don't make a difference whether it's a little old 35 or a big T7.235, the same principles for accident prevention ought to apply.

You also jumped to a lot of conclusions about the condition of the tractor. I've seen that exact same situation happen with both a car and a truck and in neither case was the vehicle faulty. Nobody is incapable of making a mistake.

You are right though on many farms safety has far too low a priority. But even in the best run farms accidents can and will happen, there are too many unpredictable factors (farmers have a responsibility to minimize these as much as possible), for one farmers live on their farms unlike construction workers. If a farmer falls over at their back door it's a work place accident, if a construction worker falls over at his back door it's just some guy who fell outside his house.

Dakota Dan

whelan2 wrote: »

Neighbour who is a woman nearly 50 and her dad were gathering sticks with their 35 and transport box yesterday. He has a load of stents in and wouldnt be very agile, the tractor started to run away from them and he went to run after it :eek: She pulled him back reckoned he would have been run over otherwise, it's the split minute decisions that lead to injuries and death

My neighbour was getting fertilizer at the local co op years ago with a tractor and trailer. The fork lift driver was putting two pallets into the trailer from the back as the sides were on. When he pushed the first pallet forward with the second pallet the force started the tractor. The fork lift driver was panicking but my neighbour said let it off it will stop somewhere. The tractor ended up in a stream beside the co op and no one was hurt. Worst thing to do is try to jump on the tractor when it starts moving. Another neighbour in the same area a few years earlier was not so lucky though his tractor took off on a hilly field with a massive drop into a deep ravine, he missed his step trying to mount the moving tractor and was killed and the tractor ended up at the bottom of the ravine.

riemann

Cattlepen wrote: »

Thanks for that. I ain’t yer mate

Someone who gets knocked unconscious frequently needs all the mates they can get.

Seriously though, you can probably get lessons in how to handle cattle properly without causing serious injury to yourself. Maybe some of the students could be worth talking to in that regard, they could point you in the right direction.

Cattlepen

riemann wrote: »

Someone who gets knocked unconscious frequently needs all the mates they can get.

Seriously though, you can probably get lessons in how to handle cattle properly without causing serious injury to yourself. Maybe some of the students could be worth talking to in that regard, they could point you in the right direction.

Good man. I’ve been full time farming since 1989. These unfortunate incidents have happened over the course of my working life which is nearly 30 years. No one said I got knocked unconscious frequently. I said a “few” times. You are trying to make this personal and I really don’t want to be rising to your bait. I think the other posters on this forum know my post was genuine on the subject matter. I’m not going to get into the amounts of stock i’ve Handled or what you’ve handled etc. that would be childish and petty. I wish you success with whatever type of farming your doing and hope you continue to stay safe

patsy_mccabe

I was nearly killed twice and guess what, both times nothing to do with farming.

Cattlepen

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I was nearly killed twice and guess what, both times nothing to do with farming.

Will ya tell us what happened

Wildly Boaring

SuperTortoise wrote: »

And we're now in a situation where it's the complete opposite on building sites, clipboard warriors fresh out of college dictating work procedures when they would'nt know which end of a shovel to sink in the ground.


The HSA done a lot of good on the buildings around the late 90's and early 00's, the problem now is there's so many of them they need to invent work to make it look like they're busy in order to justify their wage. Farming will go the same way as the building sites, almost impossible to do a day's work.

I would disagree to be honest.

Very easy get work done on a building site. Once you put the leg work in prior.

I managed sites for a contractor to major utilities in the UK.

Worked out one time that I needed 10 to 12 different pieces of paper to dig a hole on a live site.

Zero incidents on approx £12 millions worth of sites over a year and a half. Jobs all done in time. Some serious cassions, pipes and concrete.

The thing is that once you expect that amount of paperwork it forces you to plan perfectly and liaise with every other contractor on site.

I've been on site since the early 2000s. We used to injure a lot of men. And we used to do stupid things.

In my opinion it's only the dinosaurs and cowboys who cant live with the modern safety culture and constantly moan about.

The cowboys are the worst. Underprice and then piss and moan about having to do things right. Lose their cool when pulled on their messing and generSally prefer money to their employees.

I reckon a lot of farmers are still in the dinosaur category. Know what they are doing. Skilled. Do a good job often with very good and very expensive gear. Perhaps dinosaur is overkill but deffo time and resource poor with a slightly outdated view of H&S

However would laugh at simple things that would be very normal in other areas. Few examples.....

A recorded check of gear prior to use. Faulty gear equals do not use full stop.

A blind spot check on all gear and camera or mirror to overcome.

A full risk assessment for all common tasks with controls on assessment, updated at regular intervals or if the task changes.

A full review after a near miss and controls introduced to ensure no reoccurrence

Muckit

Then you fill out all these forms.... hand them back to yourself.... see you haven't the time, finances or manpower.... but the job still has to get done! Dilemma !! What to do, what to do

Cattlepen

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I would disagree to be honest.

Very easy get work done on a building site. Once you put the leg work in prior.

I managed sites for a contractor to major utilities in the UK.

Worked out one time that I needed 10 to 12 different pieces of paper to dig a hole on a live site.

Zero incidents on approx £12 millions worth of sites over a year and a half. Jobs all done in time. Some serious cassions, pipes and concrete.

The thing is that once you expect that amount of paperwork it forces you to plan perfectly and liaise with every other contractor on site.

I've been on site since the early 2000s. We used to injure a lot of men. And we used to do stupid things.

In my opinion it's only the dinosaurs and cowboys who cant live with the modern safety culture and constantly moan about.

The cowboys are the worst. Underprice and then piss and moan about having to do things right. Lose their cool when pulled on their messing and generSally prefer money to their employees.

I reckon a lot of farmers are still in the dinosaur category. Know what they are doing. Skilled. Do a good job often with very good and very expensive gear. Perhaps dinosaur is overkill but deffo time and resource poor with a slightly outdated view of H&S

However would laugh at simple things that would be very normal in other areas. Few examples.....

A recorded check of gear prior to use. Faulty gear equals do not use full stop.

A blind spot check on all gear and camera or mirror to overcome.

A full risk assessment for all common tasks with controls on assessment, updated at regular intervals or if the task changes.

A full review after a near miss and controls introduced to ensure no reoccurrence

Your post is very good and informative. It’s good to hear someone with hands on knowledge share their experiences. All your points are very valid.
12 million worth of contracts are very valuable and that is certainly big business. The problem is, and I do mean problem, not a justification for the attitude you are talking about could partially be down to money. Big budgets of 12 million can carry the cost of health and safety, farming can’t. If the money’s not there it’s simplynot there.

charolais0153

Cattlepen wrote: »

Who’s setup is that

Thats the way riemann thinks you farm judging by the eay he' speaking

patsy_mccabe

Cattlepen wrote: »

Will ya tell us what happened

As a kid, maybe 8 or 9 waded out to chest high at the beach and walked into a big hole. Did the whole washing machine thing. Went under twice and got pulled out by a woman nearby.
In Thailand or Malaysia slipped down a waterfall and stopped right at the edge of the fall. Another foot and I was gone. It was a well known tourist trail and I only crossed the stream to avoid a european couple who were photographing each other in the nip.:D

Cattlepen

charolais0153 wrote: »

Thats the way riemann thinks you farm judging by the eay he' speaking

Oh sure there nothing like an afternoon of whipping the poor auld cows into a frenzy with the bull whip. Sure that’s what we love doin. Ha ha
That cow would have made a fair job of him if she got at him

Cattlepen

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As a kid, maybe 8 or 9 waded out to chest high at the beach and walked into a big hole. Did the whole washing machine thing. Went under twice and got pulled out by a woman nearby.
In Thailand or Malaysia slipped down a waterfall and stopped right at the edge of the fall. Another foot and I was gone. I was a well known tourist trail and I only crossed the stream to avoid a european coupe who were photographing each other in the nip.:D

The water can be scary alright. Not the best at the swimming meself

Wildly Boaring

Cattlepen wrote: »

Your post is very good and informative. It’s good to hear someone with hands on knowledge share their experiences. All your points are very valid.
12 million worth of contracts are very valuable and that is certainly big business. The problem is, and I do mean problem, not a justification for the attitude you are talking about could partially be down to money. Big budgets of 12 million can carry the cost of health and safety, farming can’t. If the money’s not there it’s simplynot there.

Agree and disagree.

Yeah you cant do 12 bits of paperwork before doing a piece of work.

But you cant throw your hands in the air and just work on because health and safety is for the rich.

You can though approach the job with a different mindset. Stop for 5 mins before a task and plan it especially if more than one person involved. Get all gear organised, talk it through and then go. This point is where the dinosaur guffaws.....cost nothing to stop and think though.

Tiny padlocks cost what 1 or 2 euro. Ideal to lock out a panel if your working on an auger or a pump. Saw a man need 3 stitches when auger was started and his hand in it. I got thrown across a room in my teens when a trip was pushed back up and my hand in a socket.

Cattlepen

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Agree and disagree.

Yeah you cant do 12 bits of paperwork before doing a piece of work.

But you cant throw your hands in the air and just work on because health and safety is for the rich.

You can though approach the job with a different mindset. Stop for 5 mins before a task and plan it especially if more than one person involved. Get all gear organised, talk it through and then go. This point is where the dinosaur guffaws.....cost nothing to stop and think though.

Tiny padlocks cost what 1 or 2 euro. Ideal to lock out a panel if your working on an auger or a pump. Saw a man need 3 stitches when auger was started and his hand in it. I got thrown across a room in my teens when a trip was pushed back up and my hand in a socket.

Agreed. All very true

Wildly Boaring

Muckit wrote: »

Then you fill out all these forms.... hand them back to yourself.... see you haven't the time, finances or manpower.... but the job still has to get done! Dilemma !! What to do, what to do

The paperwork was to prove the need for a different mindset in order to deal with said paperwork.

You can have the mindset without the paperwork.

You can plan a couple days ahead and stop prior to a task and talk through the plan with all involved.
If something different occurs to your days plan you realise these are the dangerous ones. You take a breath and run through the plan. Dynamically risk assess. Major risks and the controls for them. Similar done previous and how well it went. Learnings?

Or just get the job done...... that's working as well for farmers as it used for builders

SuperTortoise

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I would disagree to be honest.

Very easy get work done on a building site. Once you put the leg work in prior.

I managed sites for a contractor to major utilities in the UK.

Worked out one time that I needed 10 to 12 different pieces of paper to dig a hole on a live site.

Zero incidents on approx £12 millions worth of sites over a year and a half. Jobs all done in time. Some serious cassions, pipes and concrete.

The thing is that once you expect that amount of paperwork it forces you to plan perfectly and liaise with every other contractor on site.

I've been on site since the early 2000s. We used to injure a lot of men. And we used to do stupid things.

In my opinion it's only the dinosaurs and cowboys who cant live with the modern safety culture and constantly moan about.

The cowboys are the worst. Underprice and then piss and moan about having to do things right. Lose their cool when pulled on their messing and generSally prefer money to their employees.

I reckon a lot of farmers are still in the dinosaur category. Know what they are doing. Skilled. Do a good job often with very good and very expensive gear. Perhaps dinosaur is overkill but deffo time and resource poor with a slightly outdated view of H&S

However would laugh at simple things that would be very normal in other areas. Few examples.....

A recorded check of gear prior to use. Faulty gear equals do not use full stop.

A blind spot check on all gear and camera or mirror to overcome.

A full risk assessment for all common tasks with controls on assessment, updated at regular intervals or if the task changes.

A full review after a near miss and controls introduced to ensure no reoccurrence

Cowboys and dinosaurs exist in every industry, it's not exclusive to farming.


I could write a list as long as my arm where a H&S method of works was less safe than my own methods in the industry i've worked in.


In terms of H&S rules and regulations i've worked in places where you would'nt dare to break wind without a special permit to do so, i can see a lot of those rules trickling down to more local industry now, and eventually into farming, there's a lot of regulations that make sense and are a good thing of course, but there's an awful lot of bull**** that comes with them as well.

Edit: You do make a lot of good points, i don't mean to come off all negative!

Dakota Dan

Talking about health and safety, I was passing under a bridge last week that some crowd were working on. They had a cherry picker raised about 15 feet and had a ladder going from the cherry picker to a narrow ledge. This was in mallow town.

Joe Daly

SuperTortoise wrote: »

And we're now in a situation where it's the complete opposite on building sites, clipboard warriors fresh out of college dictating work procedures when they would'nt know which end of a shovel to sink in the ground.


The HSA done a lot of good on the buildings around the late 90's and early 00's, the problem now is there's so many of them they need to invent work to make it look like they're busy in order to justify their wage. Farming will go the same way as the building sites, almost impossible to do a day's work.

Jobs are getting done on sites in a safe way if it saves lives or people badly injured preventing this is it not a good thing or is it euro signs before health safety in your eyes.

SuperTortoise

Joe Daly wrote: »

Jobs are getting done on sites in a safe way if it saves lives or people badly injured preventing this is it not a good thing or is it euro signs before health safety in your eyes.

Define a "safe way".


Is spending weeks on end hunched over working on a podium ladder because some clipboard warrior banned A frame ladders a "safe way"


Or how about being dressed as the Michelin man in 50 degrees heat because some H&S dude insists you need to be wearing two pairs of overalls, is that for my safety?


Or is it because the H&S man gets to tick the "no injuries today " box on his checklist, meanwhile there's teams of lads thoroughly pissed off that he just made a day's work 10 times harder and more uncomfortable that it ever needed to be.

Who2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As a kid, maybe 8 or 9 waded out to chest high at the beach and walked into a big hole. Did the whole washing machine thing. Went under twice and got pulled out by a woman nearby.
In Thailand or Malaysia slipped down a waterfall and stopped right at the edge of the fall. Another foot and I was gone. It was a well known tourist trail and I only crossed the stream to avoid a european couple who were photographing each other in the nip.:D

Did you slip due to staring or rushing to join in?

Joe Daly

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Define a "safe way".


Is spending weeks on end hunched over working on a podium ladder because some clipboard warrior banned A frame ladders a "safe way"


Or how about being dressed as the Michelin man in 50 degrees heat because some H&S dude insists you need to be wearing two pairs of overalls, is that for my safety?


Or is it because the H&S man gets to tick the "no injuries today " box on his checklist, meanwhile there's teams of lads thoroughly pissed off that he just made a day's work 10 times harder and more uncomfortable that it ever needed to be.

That people can go home after work not end up in a wheel chair or longterm injuries may be the deaths injuries in farming don't register .