deep wheels, alu braking vrs carbon

joey100

Right now I'm using Flo clincher wheels, alu braking surface with a carbon fairing. Main reason I went for these was I got them second hand for a decent price and they seem to be regarded pretty well. They are a pair of 60's and I find the front very twitchy in the wind. Maybe it's my handling on the bike or I'm very aware of it once the wind picks up or it could be a bit down to my light weight. But it's go me looking at other wheels. So I have the option of keeping the Flo's or getting a newer wheel set. If I go new it Looks like it will probably be full carbon, but that's got me thinking about the braking qualities of full carbon wheels, does anyone here use them? How do they find them? Traditionally they have a reputation as not being as good as the alu but technology has improved and I'm wondering if they really aren't as good anymore if you use a set of good quality brake blocks?

TriFirst

joey100 wrote: »

Right now I'm using Flo clincher wheels, alu braking surface with a carbon fairing. Main reason I went for these was I got them second hand for a decent price and they seem to be regarded pretty well. They are a pair of 60's and I find the front very twitchy in the wind. Maybe it's my handling on the bike or I'm very aware of it once the wind picks up or it could be a bit down to my light weight. But it's go me looking at other wheels. So I have the option of keeping the Flo's or getting a newer wheel set. If I go new it Looks like it will probably be full carbon, but that's got me thinking about the braking qualities of full carbon wheels, does anyone here use them? How do they find them? Traditionally they have a reputation as not being as good as the alu but technology has improved and I'm wondering if they really aren't as good anymore if you use a set of good quality brake blocks?

I had looked into this aswell, from my limited knowledge it seems the main issue would be in the wet carbon wheels and caliper brakes can be very iffy regardless of braking surface. Alu wheels seem to be slightly better in the wet with caliper brakes. However both are inferior to disc brake bikes especially in the wet. I have also read of the potential of carbon rims to overheat on long descents which can cause bulging on rare occasions but my understanding is that these are exceptions rather than the norm. Ride quality is apparently superior with carbon wheels from the standpoint of road dampening plus they would be lighter than alu wheels. It stands to sense that with caliper brakes that everytime you brake you are denuding the braking surface ever so slightly at what point this becomes significant is open to speculation.

Kurt.Godel

I've carbon wheels using good swissstop blocks (they are pricey!), and there's still a noticeable lack of breaking performance compared to alu rums, and even more so in wet conditions. You need to be careful going downhill round tight corners, whereas there is more control if I switch to alu wheels and blocks.

If I ever do get another bike I'd consider disc brakes, they seem to becoming more popular and the performance is second to none.

joey100

Unfortunately a new bike is out of the question right now, only just got a new to me TT bike.

That's what I've heard alright Kurt, the brakes on the new argon do seem better than my last ones though, but that's from a few short test spins on it. I'm not sure I'd give up the braking for something lighter.

Kurt.Godel

Just to give an idea of the difference, in dry conditions I'd choose alu over carbon on a tricky course like DCTri, however if a course was mostly a flatish loop then carbon is fine. In wet conditions I'd err on the side of caution and go with alu wheel for the better breaking.

You'd also be a lot lighter than me so shouldn't be as much of a difference as I notice.

peter kern

the first thing i always tell people is your rear wheel should be deeper than front wheel.... everybody should ride a cheap disc at back if they buy wheels for speed. its just a no brainer 90 times out of a 100 but a 500 euro disc wheel will be faster then the most expnsive rear wheel ( i think even enve is getting that now and you see most females racing with on discs now when they can



alu has the advantage you dont need to change break pads ( well i dodnt change them either on carbon and my disc rear wheel has done 12 years of racing now and the suface has another 10 years at least in it ) but still while i would prefer alu surface its one of my lower priorities for myself , but its something i do push with more novice athletes.



in your case i would get a disc wheel and improve as there is many females in the world that ride without issues being your weight . and train more with race wheels ( keep the alu surface for the front ) the rear brake is not that important anyway )


do more cycle touring and get a tandem and you will learn to deal riding in the side winds as panniers help tp become better dealing with the wind even better with a tandem with panniers .



a longer stem can also help as it can make the bike less twitchy and can putting more weight on the front having a bottle behind the saddle can have an impact to as could have a bottle on the handle.




at the end its all aobut pricing and an alu rim wheel tends to be better value ( the only disadvantage i can see is travelling with bike as the hed fearings are a bit weak and require a better wheel bag)

swiss side and flo better but i hear apparantly swiss side does not sell the alu sufrace anymore .



people say the extremy overpriced zipp wheels are better in the side

wind but again and disc 60 mm old er style wheels set will be more or less as good than a 60 60 m 3500 euro set wheel

and bike set up stem bottles rake of the fork plays a bigger impact as well as nervousness on the bike as well .

train more with race front wheel and rear training wheel wheel can help. i notice this every time i cycle with my race front wheel to a race hwo less stable it is than my disc wheel .( my disc wheel is tubular so i do not use it outside racing )



still training works ( mostly ) ... and so it does for cycling in the wind .
i woulds guess you are using hands too much and dont use your body weight enough to mange the bike and dont read the wind well enough.



as for disc breaks they are not per se better than a rim break ( a bad disc break is not that great and the drawback of disc breaks its more work to adjust them and in a race its harder to fix them after a puncture )



for me I dont think i will ever change to disc breaks on tt bike ( I am happy to have one on the tandem if i go to the alps but otherwise i cant be ar.ed maintaning them. to be fair in my case it has less stoping power than the rim break. but as somebody said it prevents overheating in long downhills ) i dont know anybody that has overheaded a rim in ireland ... ( alp duez embrumman is a different storry )

and you need to be very careful if you pack them one ding on the rotor can be annoying . I see advantages for disc breaks but not in tt ( heavier more expensive more work and at least till now not more aero ....)

but i can see that for some they can be better so everybody has to weigh up the pros and cons for themsleves , but overall they are overhyped and in the tt circle its just a great way to force people buying new gear more expensively . which of course many people like and thats cool. its not like the bike industry is an easy place to be in .

joey100

Cheers Peter, what you say makes a lot of sense. I actually have a Flo disc too, I bought the 2x60's and a disc all second hand. I think your right about using them more in training, I never really use them so that's probably the best place to start and see from there.

ronanmac

I have a pair of carbon-rimmed Scope 45s on my road bike and the first generation Flo 60's with alu rim and carbon fairing on the TT bike. I've ridden a few different full-carbon wheels and the Scopes brake as well, if not better, as any of them in the wet, but there is still no comparison between them and the Flos for wet weather braking. The Flos are the same as any other alu rim. You brake in the wet, and you're confident that they'll slow you down. Not so the carbon rims, where you need to pulse the brakes to take the excess water off the rim. They're fine around the west of Ireland, but I wouldn't want to be coming down off the Tourmalet in the rain on a pair of carbon rim brakes!

As for dry weather braking, they are pretty much the same, maybe more of a bite in the carbon brake surface.