Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Infini

golfball37 wrote: »

The Irish have been sneering at the decision of the British people since the result came in. The glee being extolled here over Britain’s travails is quite childish. If Britain suffers so will we.

People arent "sneering" at the British but rather a mixture of "WTF" "How could you be so stupid?" and a general irritance at both the bile that some of the Brexiteers have lobbed towards us because we wont roll over to suit them and fatigue that they keep continuing this pathetic farce that has absolutely no benefit to anyone outside Disaster Capitalists and narrow minded idiots who dont care about the damage it will cause to everyone but expecially their own people.

There is also a fair bit of sympathy for those who didn't vote for this as well though.

Inquitus

2nd referendum best odds now 13/8, it has shortened a fair bit. No 2nd referendum best odds 1/2

Tell me how

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hard to recall now but once the Conservative Party was the pragmatic party.

They might still be the 'most' pragmatic party given the fiasco that Labour is.

prawnsambo

Shelga wrote: »

David Davis on Sky News just said “I want free trade to be included in the deal”- wtf, this is a withdrawal agreement, not a trade deal.

How is he so utterly stupid. How was he the actual Brexit Secretary. How has the UK let itself fall completely apart like this.

This is what has me flummoxed. These are supposed to be the cream of the British education system and they haven't the first clue about what they're doing. Davis swanned around Europe looking for a trade deal and I thought he was just being mendacious and trying to end run Barnier. But clearly he believes that this is what the WA is all about. This is a level of thickness that makes Raab look like a genius. Nadine Dorries is starting to look average.

seamus

Tell me how wrote: »

You are confusing astonishment with glee.

I think most people (certainly those posting on this thread) are aware of the impact. A no deal Brexit could impact Ireland proportionally greater than it will the UK.

Laughing at the absurdity of Davis, Johnson et al is not the same as being happy that it is happening to them.

There is a certain level of Schadenfreude though. The UK have made the wrong decision at every turn, and walked themselves voluntarily into this entirely avoidable situation. For no reason other than arrogance.

You'll have difficulty finding a human being who doesn't take a small amount of enjoyment from someone else's arrogance backfiring on them completely.

That doesn't mean anyone is gleeful about the actual outcome though.

Infini

Inquitus wrote: »

2nd referendum best odds now 13/8, it has shortened a fair bit. No 2nd referendum best odds 1/2

I'll be honest the way I'm seeing this the only logical and least damaging way to end this is a 2nd referendum or an outright total abandonment of Brexit. There's very little chance the current deal will pass the HoC it's the worst of everything for both sides.

Fact is to be honest if they don't accept the deal on offer they're gonna be face with either a crash out Brexit thanks to their OWN incompetence OR enough people stand up from both sides of the house and basically say enough is enough and either force a 2nd referendum to end this farce (and the EU would give an extention to A50 as well not to mention I could see them this time launching a campaign with the remain side to counter deceptive propaganda to boot) or if brave enough vote to abandon this whole thing in full light of the facts before them.

Strazdas

Double post

pikebishop

looking at whats going on in the UK over the last couple of days ( and maybe months) I do feel they are not getting the process. the WA should be a formality the future relationship is where they get a good deal or not. keep the powder dry in this phase and get a much good will as they can.

Tell me how

golfball37 wrote: »

The Irish have been sneering at the decision of the British people since the result came in. The glee being extolled here over Britain’s travails is quite childish. If Britain suffers so will we.

They're laughing at themselves over there as much as we are here.

The neweuropean.co.uk website on tonight's Question time line up.

Question Time is on BBC One at 10.45pm tonight (11.20pm in Northern Ireland), provided Jacob Rees-Mogg hasn't already seized control of the country and privatised it by then

Shelga

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is what has me flummoxed. These are supposed to be the cream of the British education system and they haven't the first clue about what they're doing. Davis swanned around Europe looking for a trade deal and I thought he was just being mendacious and trying to end run Barnier. But clearly he believes that this is what the WA is all about. This is a level of thickness that makes Raab look like a genius. Nadine Dorries is starting to look average.

Agreed. It’s mental. But what is just as bad, which James O’Brien has hammered home the last few months, is that journalists and reporters rarely pick them up on these lies. The Sky News guy just started asking him about something else, instead of calling him out on the free trade rubbish.

Strazdas

Shelga wrote: »

David Davis on Sky News just said “I want free trade to be included in the deal”- wtf, this is a withdrawal agreement, not a trade deal.

How is he so utterly stupid. How was he the actual Brexit Secretary. How has the UK let itself fall completely apart like this.

And another thing getting lost in the mix is that there is no obligation whatsoever on the EU to offer the UK a trade deal. Britain decided abruptly to walk out of the EU, break all ties and become a third country. It becomes like Peru or Vietnam or Gambia and there is no onus on the EU to ever offer them a free trade deal.

Infini

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

To be fair, people have been predicting her doom since day one, and so far she has always survived.

In fairness the reason she's survived is because her "opponents" are opinionated oppertunistic bullshítters with no common sense who are too cowardly to step up to the plate because they know they'll be politically ruined by this. They know this that's why they cant and wont mount a truly serious challenge they havent got the guts to walk the walk.

namloc1980

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is what has me flummoxed. These are supposed to be the cream of the British education system and they haven't the first clue about what they're doing. Davis swanned around Europe looking for a trade deal and I thought he was just being mendacious and trying to end run Barnier. But clearly he believes that this is what the WA is all about. This is a level of thickness that makes Raab look like a genius. Nadine Dorries is starting to look average.

Would love to have been a fly on the wall in the negotiations. Barnier vs Davis.

Shelga

David Baddiel sums it up:

https://twitter.com/baddiel/status/1062865047213477889?s=21

Infini

Shelga wrote: »

David Davis on Sky News just said “I want free trade to be included in the deal”- wtf, this is a withdrawal agreement, not a trade deal.

How is he so utterly stupid. How was he the actual Brexit Secretary. How has the UK let itself fall completely apart like this.

Honestly the simple answer is arrogant idiot's with no iota of common sense were allowed to have power to begin with. The whole situation is in part as well due to the lack of democratic representation like the FPTP system that allows certain parties and individuals to wield a disproportionate amount of power than they should have and it allows those to exploit the system. Even older former politicians have noted the calibre of those in power today is far below the standards of the older days.

If the UK somehow manages to pull itself out of the fire before it's too late they're gonna need to have a serious debate at redressing the falacies, deficiencies and weaknesses that got them into this ridiculous mire to begin with.

Hurrache

An absolutely scathingly article by Ian Dunt on Raab, the British government in general and their negotiation abilities.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/15/raab-resigns-the-shabby-end-of-a-pitiful-career

when his moment came, Raab was a nervous mess. He plastered a petrified smile on his face as he stood next to Michel Barnier after talks. It was simply embarrassing to watch him stand there and sweat in the limelight, as far better briefed negotiating partners peered at him over their glasses, like a cat looking at its prey.

........
The dream is always just that, a dream. The reality is humiliation and chaos. From Brussels' perspective it is genuinely unclear if they have a viable negotiating partner. What a catastrophically shoddy situation for a British government to be in. Two and half years into Brexit and one of the world's leading countries is now so maimed and baffled it cannot even strike deals without politically imploding

pikebishop

in fairness to TM she's trying to defend the middle ground but unfortunately from today's performance a lot of her party has shifted dramatically far right. are they representing the view of the UK electorate?

listermint

pikebishop wrote: »

in fairness to TM she's trying to defend the middle ground but unfortunately from today's performance a lot of her party has shifted dramatically right. are they representing the view of the UK electorate?

Middle ground is killing freedom of movement..and attempting to send your own citizens home ?


She has a legacy and it's extremely poor. Her time in the home office should follow her around. Her legacy there is still trampling over people today.

Gringo180

At least Corbyn wins the next general election.

Inquitus

Gringo180 wrote: »

At least Corbyn wins the next general election.

He's such a bad Labour leader that despite this clusterfeck, there is no guarantee he does win, in fact the polls still have the Tories ahead despite everything!

Frank Bullitt

Inquitus wrote: »

He's such a bad Labour leader that despite this clusterfeck, there is no guarantee he does win, in fact the polls still have the Tories ahead despite everything!

Hasn't his popularity levelled off at around the same as Mays now too?

Itssoeasy

I can't understand how the pro brexit crowd can talk about "becoming an independent country again" with a straight face. Do they not see how stupid that statement is ?

1. Independent country: in the name of Christ there is not one person alive in Britian that was ever under anything other than British rule and with centuries to spare. It was they that invaded other countries recently not the other way around. I mean it has to be the Norman conquest the last time that island was invaded in any way and not in control of their own affairs(open to correction of that) And okay they were part of the EU but they were an independent country just like we are.

Folkstonian

Gintonious wrote: »

Hasn't his popularity levelled off at around the same as Mays now too?

Unbelievably he’s consistently polling around about 4 points below May, which paints the bleakest picture of them all I think

goat2

All the fellows that were shouting to leave the European Union are now running into rabbit holes, not one of them has a spine,
I think that this Brexit is not going to happen

DOCARCH

Boris has been amazingly quiet the last 24 hours?

Tell me how

DOCARCH wrote: »

Boris has been amazingly quiet the last 24 hours?

Sure sign it's a mess when he doesn't even see an angle from which he can try to milk it.

pikebishop

she could have easily ****ed over the GFA but decided to go with plan to try keep its integrity. a lot of the other headaballs would have easily gone a different way.

Working class heroes

pikebishop wrote: »

she could have easily ****ed over the GFA but decided to go with plan to try keep its integrity. a lot of the other headaballs would have easily gone a different way.

If she was let she would have.

listermint

pikebishop wrote: »

she could have easily ****ed over the GFA but decided to go with plan to try keep its integrity. a lot of the other headaballs would have easily gone a different way.

What different way ?

The EU were not going to progress anything without a backstop. This has feck all to do with may and everything to do with the EU and Ireland trying to preserve the gfa.

If it was allowed she would have shafted the gfa in a second

Anthracite

golfball37 wrote: »

The Irish have been sneering at the decision of the British people since the result came in.

Yes, we got that call absolutely correct. Thanks for recognising our prescience.