Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Water John

The Monster Raving Lunatic Party had more support than Irexit will ever have.

blanch152

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Like I said, nobody claimed it did. However the foolishness that is Brexit is a risk to the GFA. A hard Brexit vastly increases that risk.

The Irish Government have done magnificently well to create the narrative that the GFA requires an open border.

It doesn't. A hard border would go against the spirit of the GFA, but technically it wouldn't break the GFA. Agriculture is the main area that would require a soft border. Checks on agricultural shipments to the UK from Northern Ireland are not unknown.

There are huge practical issues with a hard border, and there are the "good republicans" to consider, but legally, the GFA doesn't require a soft Brexit.

devnull

theguzman wrote: »

Irexit Freedom Party
https://www.irexitfreedom.ie/

They are holding a meeting in Galway this weekend I believe.

I'm sure that all 31 of them out of a population of 4.8m will enjoy themselves.

I doubt Leo will be losing any sleep over them.

Come back to me when they start to win some votes and at election and maybe we can talk again.

Ireland and the UK are much more similar than you think.

They're not, and that's from someone who has lived in both countries and spent the last 12 months working in both of them.

Infini

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm happy with the idea of Ireland and Northern Ireland living as good neighbours, nor with the idea of the people of Northern Ireland determining the status of their country.

But that has nothing to do with saying that there cannot be a hard border because of the GFA. The GFA allows hard borders, or as hard as the border will ever get.

But here lies the problem though a Hard border not only is against the wishes of the Majority of NI but is also disproportionately affecting the Nationalist community and Border communities who do not want this. The GFA was about giving everyone the choice of nationality and a Hard border affects one side more.

On top of this the DUP have been exploiting the situation far above what they should be able to because of May's failed election gamble. If the DUP weren't part of the government this issue about NI would have been resolved far earlier.

Truth is the issue of the border is a Grey Area because it was never though one side would leave the EU. That being said because of Historical Reasons any hard border becomes a flashpoint and risks serious trouble because it ultimately attracts more and more attention on it. It could become a catalyst that unravels the GFA that's why theres so much oppositon to it from everyone else and the DUP wants it.

mcbert

theguzman wrote: »

From a Nationalist point of view I would welcome a hard-Brexit and restore the border as a visible reminder that Northern Ireland is still under British Rule, let their economy tank and basically force them into a United Ireland this way. From an economic perspective the UK are our closest neighbor and biggest trading partner an a hard-Brexit will ultimately lead their economy to further success which is good for us.

Ireland are currently paying billions into the EU whilst there is a housing crisis here, this money would be better off to help people get a roof over their head instead of being spent of Angela Merkel's EU Federal Army.

Yeah, except the worse their economy gets, the less likely the south is to want a UI.

Necro

theguzman wrote: »

From a Nationalist point of view I would welcome a hard-Brexit and restore the border as a visible reminder that Northern Ireland is still under British Rule, let their economy tank and basically force them into a United Ireland this way. From an economic perspective the UK are our closest neighbor and biggest trading partner an a hard-Brexit will ultimately lead their economy to further success which is good for us.

Ireland are currently paying billions into the EU whilst there is a housing crisis here, this money would be better off to help people get a roof over their head instead of being spent of Angela Merkel's EU Federal Army.

Wait... let me get this straight.

You want a hard border as a result of Brexit.

And you want the Republic to leave the EU.

And you think this will all result in a United Ireland????

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

theguzman wrote: »

Irexit Freedom Party
https://www.irexitfreedom.ie/

They are holding a meeting in Galway this weekend I believe.

A grand total of 31 are confirmed as going to that meeting in Galway. :D:D

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31 going · 85 interested

Pa8301

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

We take our chances. A good deal comes because it benefits both parties.

The UK were never going to get a deal that would benefit them. Their best option was to stay in the EU. Once they voted to leave, the best deal possible for the UK was one that caused them the least amount of pain caused by leaving the EU. It is unrealistic and naive for people to think that leaving the EU is going to have a positive effect on the UK.

ThePanjandrum

PeadarCo wrote: »

Ireland/EU/UK currently doesn't trade with the US under WTO rules.

Remember the UK still has to enter the WTO as a full member. There are still potentially numerous issues with this. For example Moldova is threatening to block the UK over a dispute over visas. Other countries are also naturally trying to obtain a better deal. As recent negotiations have shown the UK isn't exactly is a strong position to bargain. This helped by the your comment and Raab surprise about how important the centuries old Dover Calais trade route was to UK trade. Both examples show a complete lack of understanding about how international trade works.

How does it trade with the USA then seeing as there is no trade agreement, that's what TTIP was about. And the UK has always been a full member of the WTO as is Ireland, check this out with the WTO. The argument with Moldova doesn't affect much at all, it certainly doesn't prevent trade or FTAs.

hill16bhoy

devnull wrote: »

With 3,000 likes on Facebook out of a population of 4.8m and that's assuming that the 3,000 likes are all based in Ireland rather than being bots or people in other countries trying to stir stuff up, I doubt that Leo is going to be losing too much sleep over that.

Come back to me when they start to win some votes and at election and maybe we can talk again.



They're not, and that's from someone who has lived in both countries and spent the last 12 months working in both of them.

I don't think the Irexit nutters quite get that the more anti-EU that Britain has got, the more the Irish people have hardened in their pro-EU stance.

And there is a direct relationship between these things.

theguzman

mcbert wrote: »

Yeah, except the worse their economy gets, the less likely the south is to want a UI.

Its not really what we think, basically for a United Ireland to happen the majority in Northern Ireland must vote for it, only a very idiotic person who has no sense of patriotism would vote against a United Ireland in the south. There will be economic ramifications of a United Ireland but it is the duty of all Irish citizens to help bring this about. 50-100,000 redundancies in the HSE and Public Sector would easily pay for it, and that should happen anyway irregardless of Irexit or a United Ireland.

joe40

theguzman wrote: »

From a Nationalist point of view I would welcome a hard-Brexit and restore the border as a visible reminder that Northern Ireland is still under British Rule, let their economy tank and basically force them into a United Ireland this way. From an economic perspective the UK are our closest neighbor and biggest trading partner an a hard-Brexit will ultimately lead their economy to further success which is good for us.

Ireland are currently paying billions into the EU whilst there is a housing crisis here, this money would be better off to help people get a roof over their head instead of being spent of Angela Merkel's EU Federal Army.

So a hard brexit will make the NI economy tank while simultaneously the the UK will prosper. I think you need to revisit the logic there.

prawnsambo

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

If that's aimed at me, you're wrong, I have a good knowledge of what is included in the GFA. I also have no intention of cutting Northern Ireland from the UK, although if they decided they wanted to leave then that would be up to them.

You may have a good knowledge of the GFA, but you haven't the first clue of what the border was like, up close and personal, before it came about. Twenty years isn't long enough yet to consign that period to the dustbin of history. Not by a long shot.

ThePanjandrum

Anthracite wrote: »

So what are you here trolling for?

There's a difference between trolling and discussion. I have merely replied to some posts, most of which have been addressed to me anyway. Like yours.

blanch152

Necro wrote: »

Wait... let me get this straight.

You want a hard border as a result of Brexit.

And you want the Republic to leave the EU.

And you think this will all result in a United Ireland????

It would be a united Ireland with the living standards of North Korea.

relax carry on

theguzman wrote: »

security, culture and way of life, all of which are undermined and being destroyed by the EU.

How are the above being destroyed by the EU? And what evidence do you have that what you believe is occurring?

prawnsambo

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

How does it trade with the USA then seeing as there is no trade agreement, that's what TTIP was about. And the UK has always been a full member of the WTO as is Ireland, check this out with the WTO. The argument with Moldova doesn't affect much at all, it certainly doesn't prevent trade or FTAs.

There are co-operation agreements between the EU and the USA. They aren't FTAs, but they have the effect of being FTAs in a narrower sense. There is also an agreed EU schedule with the WTO. The UK has always been and is a member of the WTO in its own right. However, the UK does not have an agreed schedule of tariffs and quotas with the WTO. They trade on the basis of the EU schedule. That's the bit that Moldova can stop because schedules have to be agreed unainmously by all 163 WTO members. Otherwise it's the base schedule which is pretty damn awful.

mcbert

theguzman wrote: »

Its not really what we think, basically for a United Ireland to happen the majority in Northern Ireland must vote for it, only a very idiotic person who has no sense of patriotism would vote against a United Ireland in the south. There will be economic ramifications of a United Ireland but it is the duty of all Irish citizens to help bring this about. 50-100,000 redundancies in the HSE and Public Sector would easily pay for it, and that should happen anyway irregardless of Irexit or a United Ireland.

Must? Duty? No sense of patriotism? HSE redundancies? This isnt the country you think it is

Necro

blanch152 wrote: »

It would be a united Ireland with the living standards of North Korea.

Well, I mean ignoring the obvious economic ruin the island would face how does a hard border create a United Ireland in any shape way or fashion.

charlie14

theguzman wrote: »

Irexit Freedom Party
https://www.irexitfreedom.ie/

They are holding a meeting in Galway this weekend I believe.

Fianna Fail are currently experiencing alot of internal conflict as are Sinn Fein currently.

We have Pravada RTE providing liberal brainwashing on a daily basis and the rest of Private Media is currently controlled by a FG sympathiser.

Ireland and the UK are much more similar than you think.

I imagine it will be standing room only in that Galway phone box.

You may have missed it but there was total politically unity on Ireland`s position in these negotiations.

I think when it comes to media we have neither the gutter press of the UK or a readership that gullible to blindly follow.

Similar in some ways perhaps and while we recognise that there may be areas of the EU we do not agree with, we also recognise how those are heavily outweighed by the advantages of being full members of the EU.

theguzman

relax carry on wrote: »

How are the above being destroyed by the EU? And want evidence do you have that what you believe is occurring?

OK, the EU is forcing countries to accept refugees, this brings security concerns, Islamic Immigration as a result of EU policy undermines the entire social order and security of the EU. In Poland last weekend thousands marched and burned EU flags.



The way of life is destroyed as so many are swamped in Debt or else working hand to mouth, EU migration into Ireland has caused this as wages were kept artificially low. The Euro has been a disaster for Ireland as we don't have a monetary policy. We should return to the Punt pegged to Gold.

Anthracite

theguzman wrote: »

Rents would be much lower as immigration would be far less and the pressure to housing less. The economy is not the most important thing for alot of people in Ireland, there is security, culture and way of life, all of which are undermined and being destroyed by the EU.

So we drive out the people here who are actually in accommodation? Or just wait for them and their children and children's children to die off?

While that approach is obviously not going to free up accommodation unless we do indeed drive out people have come here to live from abroad, successfully driving these people away will leave us with a bit of a skills gap. I work for a unicorn multi-national startup, and more than half my team is non-Irish. If these people were not available to be hired here, my highly skilled job would not exist either, and the country would miss out in a fortune in PAYE and corporation tax.

I think you need a new plan other than 'dey tuk ur jerbs'.

ThePanjandrum

prawnsambo wrote: »

Irealnd trades with the USA under a multitude of co-operation agreements between the EU and the USA.

Well, then, isn't it strange that the EU says

Inevitably for two economies of such size with such a high volume of trade, the EU and the US encounter a number of trade disputes which are handled through the dispute settlement mechanism of the WTO.

Anthracite

Necro wrote: »

I'd love to see where you came up with those figures for wages tbh.

I was in Australia where wages are around that and it made 0 difference as the poster above mentioned because of - yep, you guessed it - inflation.

I suppose you could just devalue the currency and print more money for the laugh while you're at it.

Fair point. I bet they don't have a big problem with immigrants undermining their sacred blood and soil in Venezuela.

joe40

There was a guy on the James O Brien show complaining about all the EU rules. The presenter asked him to name one, just one EU rule he didn't like. The guy couldn't come up with a single one.
I think a lot of people are a bit like that, just repeating lie they have been fed

Necro

theguzman wrote: »

OK, the EU is forcing countries to accept refugees, this brings security concerns, Islamic Immigration as a result of EU policy undermines the entire social order and security of the EU. In Poland last weekend thousands marched and burned EU flags.



The way of life is destroyed as so many are swamped in Debt or else working hand to mouth, EU migration into Ireland has caused this as wages were kept artificially low. The Euro has been a disaster for Ireland as we don't have a monetary policy. We should return to the Punt pegged to Gold.

Ah, so it's the: 'They took our jobs' angle you're working. :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

Watching The View on BBC NI and business representatives are very supportive of the agreement and critical of the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson who said business leaders didn't understand it and should go back and read it again.

hill16bhoy

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

A grand total of 31 are confirmed as going to that meeting in Galway. :D:D

On the plus side for them, 31 is a small enough number for them to stage an actual circle jerk.

They'll probably use a Jacob Rees-Mogg's biscuit.

Strazdas

theguzman wrote: »

OK, the EU is forcing countries to accept refugees, this brings security concerns, Islamic Immigration as a result of EU policy undermines the entire social order and security of the EU. In Poland last weekend thousands marched and burned EU flags.



The way of life is destroyed as so many are swamped in Debt or else working hand to mouth, EU migration into Ireland has caused this as wages were kept artificially low. The Euro has been a disaster for Ireland as we don't have a monetary policy. We should return to the Punt pegged to Gold.

Not true : the EU has no authority to compel countries to take refugees (how could they, short of invading the place?)

So far the likes of Poland and Hungary have taken no resettled refugees at all, zilch, nada.

Anthracite

theguzman wrote: »

Irexit Freedom Party
https://www.irexitfreedom.ie/

They are holding a meeting in Galway this weekend I believe.

Currently polling somewhere below the Inkatha Freedom Party, I'd guess.