Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Bigus

cryptocurrency wrote: »

In the long term keeping that UN seat is much more important to the UK then falling out with the EU. When you operate at their level then the seat is vital. Germany knows this hence the calls for the EU army and the seat via the backdoor.

Imagine if Japan had come back with the deal May did and presented it to the nation? The Japanese would probably expect some hari Kari ceremony on national TV by the government to wash the shame away. I still can’t believe that May actually presented this deal with a straight face.

Please answer my question, how does a UN seat enrich a nation ? Apart from helping arms sales ?

RobMc59

Anthracite wrote: »

Not sure if this is a joke but are you one of the people from across the water who only recently learned that nationalists don't vote for unionist politicians and vice versa?

On a side note, she's not even in power - there is no assemly for her to be the first minister of.

Yes,I am one of the people from across the water and correct me if I'm wrong but the DUP is the largest political party in NI so there is obviously significant support for them-i do of course realise there is animosity between unionist and republicans which doesn't exist across the water as what religious persuasion a person is doesn't exist except perhaps in Scotland.

Rhineshark

The last ten pages or so is like a flashback to 2016. It is remarkable that the oft-debunked arguments really don't seem to have changed a bit.

Bigus

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Another reason why the UK needs to go hard brexit and flex now or the UK is finished. No seat, no overseas territories, no influence, no credibility....it’s all now on the line.

Sounds a little bit like trying to turn back the clock, those strong arm days are long gone .

cryptocurrency

Bigus wrote: »

Please answer my question, how does a UN seat enrich a nation ? Apart from helping arms sales ?

Power and influence. The fact you can’t see that says a lot. Countries can’t be run by people who don’t see the advantages of these things.

cryptocurrency

Bigus wrote: »

Sounds a little bit like trying to turn back the clock, those strong arm days are long gone .

Gone for who? This is more relevant now then every before.

murphaph

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Another reason why the UK needs to go hard brexit and flex now or the UK is finished. No seat, no overseas territories, no influence, no credibility....it’s all now on the line.

But they don't have the hand to play. Haven't you been watching for the past 2 years?

Bigus

Current list of British overseas territories from Air safety support website , although they forget to mention Northern Ireland
Seems well worth fighting for and offending the whole EU

Anguilla
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory (BAT) - ASSI has no direct responsibility in relation to BAT as the Antarctic Treaty takes precedence.
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar - outside ASSI's remit due to its position within the European Union.
Montserrat
Pitcairn Island, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands
St Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha
Sovereign Base Areas (SBA) - ASSI's responsibility in relation to the SBA is limited to the provision of advice to the Administrator.
South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands
Turks and Caicos Islands


Seems all that's left of the British empire is stuff the locals couldn't be bothered fighting for themselves.

Calina

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Power and influence. The fact you can’t see that says a lot. Countries can’t be run by people who don’t see the advantages of these things.

tbh if they leave the EU hard brexit they have lost a massive chunk of their power and influence.

Your argument supports remain.

cryptocurrency

Bigus wrote: »

Current list of British overseas territories from Air safety support website , although they forget to mention Northern Ireland
Seems well worth fighting for and offending the whole EU

Anguilla
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory (BAT) - ASSI has no direct responsibility in relation to BAT as the Antarctic Treaty takes precedence.
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar - outside ASSI's remit due to its position within the European Union.
Montserrat
Pitcairn Island, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands
St Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha
Sovereign Base Areas (SBA) - ASSI's responsibility in relation to the SBA is limited to the provision of advice to the Administrator.
South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands
Turks and Caicos Islands

Going by their locations they are very much worth fighting tooth and nail for

Bigus

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Going by their locations they are very much worth fighting tooth and nail for

Best of luck with that argument.

First Up

The UK is perfectly entitled to reject the terms offered by the EU and go its own way. It can look to former colonies to replace larger markets close to home; it can look to China as a strategic partner. In other words it can do all the things the Brexiteers promised.

It has chosen to leave a prosperous stable and successful union for its own reason. The consequences are entirely its own responsibility. Any humiliation that results is its own doing.

cryptocurrency

Calina wrote: »

tbh if they leave the EU hard brexit they have lost a massive chunk of their power and influence.

Your argument supports remain.

Not at all. Just the opposite. It’s all in the delivery. This needs to be done in a bullish trumpesqe manner. A zero tolerance stand. May seen a swell of support after her statement post Salzburg where the EU leaders publicly humiliated her. UK now needs a very strong leader to replace her but they don’t have that Thatcher figure out there at the moment to stand up, not one I can think of anyway.

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

tbh if they leave the EU hard brexit they have lost a massive chunk of their power and influence.

Your argument supports remain.

Not at all. Just the opposite. It’s all in the delivery. This needs to be done in a bullish trumpesqe manner. A zero tolerance stand. May seen a swell of support after her statement post Salzburg where the EU leaders publicly humiliated her. UK now needs a very strong leader to replace her but they don’t have that Thatcher figure out there at the moment to stand up, not one I can think of anyway.

What form do you want this "standing up" to take?

Calina

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Not at all. Just the opposite. It’s all in the delivery. This needs to be done in a bullish trumpesqe manner. A zero tolerance stand. May seen a swell of support after her statement post Salzburg where the EU leaders publicly humiliated her. UK now needs a very strong leader to replace her but they don’t have that Thatcher figure out there at the moment to stand up, not one I can think of anyway.

I think you do not have the remotest idea what you are talking about.

Bullish trumpesque behaviour leads to more humiliation.

and

Britain does not have any candidate to be a strong leader.

listermint

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Not at all. Just the opposite. It’s all in the delivery. This needs to be done in a bullish trumpesqe manner. A zero tolerance stand. May seen a swell of support after her statement post Salzburg where the EU leaders publicly humiliated her. UK now needs a very strong leader to replace her but they don’t have that Thatcher figure out there at the moment to stand up, not one I can think of anyway.

Sorry,

But what in god's name are you talking about. Nothing but bluster the last two pages. Are you advocating invasion or something?

I've seen nothing but ridiculous posts from you the last two pages. Akin to playing playstation games late at night on your own.

First Up

Some people need reminding of the old saying that anger is not an argument.

ancapailldorcha

In a bizarre turn of events, it looks like the deputy editor of both the Express and its sister paper, the Sunday Express voted remain:

Michael Booker, who also edits the Sunday Express, said: “I feel slightly responsible, being from the Daily Express.”

Speaking at Mindshare’s Huddle event in London today, Booker admitted he voted “remain” in the EU Referendum in 2016, but said the Express’ stance on Brexit was determined by its readers.

“You’ve got to play your strengths with your readers,” he said.

“400,000 of them signed a petition calling for a referendum. They didn’t think it would come to this particular situation… The politicians are making an absolute hash of it.”

Booker (pictured, right) added: “We are in a sticky position. It isn’t the Daily Express’ fault, but we will be covering it every step of the way.”

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

In a bizarre turn of events, it looks like the deputy editor of both the Express and its sister paper, the Sunday Express voted remain:

Similarly, in recent weeks, The Mail appointed a Remainer as editor. It immediately became much more supportive of May.

prawnsambo

theguzman wrote: »

Please demonstrate to me the self-harm caused by Brexit?

Well the obvious one is sterling tanking. In the short term, this is a good thing because it makes UK exports cheaper. But since the UK has a large balance of trade deficit, it has made imports more expensive and therefore prices. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. The knock on effects have also seen a lot of retailers close or contract by shutting down branches.

Then there's the fall in FDI. Between 2016 and 2017 FDI fell by 92%. In the same period, outward investment increased by 300%. So capital is leaving the country to invest elsewhere. And nothing is coming in to replace it, or create new jobs.

Wage stagnation is another effect. Calculated at 0.9% increase this year.

Economic growth is flat. GDP growth is, and is forecast to be, one of the lowest in Europe.

It's harder to ascertain the jobs market because of the way the ONS calculate unemployment. Effectively if you only get one hour a week of work, you're counted as employed. I'm sure that's a comfort to those with a couple of hours a week. You're also conisdered 'inactive' if you haven't worked or sought work in four weeks. So not unemployed, just having a rest, or something, something, layabout.

The NHS has suffered a huge drop off in nurses coming to the UK from the rest of Europe starting in 2016. Pretty much disappeared completely.



And then there's the companies who've decided to leave the UK. Or have already left. This will be permanent


I could go on, but I'm sure that's enough to keep you occupied for a while.

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

In the long term keeping that UN seat is much more important to the UK then falling out with the EU. When you operate at their level then the seat is vital. Germany knows this hence the calls for the EU army and the seat via the backdoor.

What is this obsession with a seat in a committee in an increasingly irrelevant talking shop?

Does this seat confer magical powers? Have you perchance watched a lot of Game of Thrones?

EdgeCase

Bigus wrote: »

Sounds a little bit like trying to turn back the clock, those strong arm days are long gone .

Well, it's been said that the UK could well end up like Russia, an embittered former empire now run by oligarchs and one that spends all its time threatening the world militarily, while having a basket case economy and many of its citizens living in poverty while chasing out all of its talllented and skilled citizens due to bad living conditions and ever eroding human rights.

Choice of future is to be made now!

brickster69

SNIP. Serious discussion only please.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Britain have been humiliated on the world stage by the communist EU. The UK is a permanent seat holder of the UN Security Council and is getting humiliated like this. They have only one real course of action to save face here and the credibility as a power on the world stage and that’s to get rid of May, go for a no deal and severe security ties with the EU citing the unfriendly threats they’ve made to them. A few months of military brinkmanship would seen see the EU offer a simple free trade deal.

UK vs rest of EU?



Notwithstanding the ludicrous suggestion, given that it isn't even the most militarily strong country in the EU, your hypothetical sabre rattling scenario probably wouldn't work out too well for UK https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing-europe.asp .

It would be like the fella threatening to take on a full football team simultaneously when there are few lads on that team who would beat him individually in a one-on-one situation





(I know title said not pic or gif dump, but I don't think links are prohibited. Click on it if you want. This is a link to a video that I was reminded of by your post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY . From the satirical show "The Day Today". Could have been made today in relation to Brexit!!!!!)

Donald Trump

brickster69 wrote: »

You're right there. They need someone like this guy.

The problem with taking the piss out of the EU officials and trying to paint them as idiots or incompetent is that then you have to explain why the British Officials are being out maneuvered by these incompetents. (If you are assuming there is out-maneuvering going on)

cryptocurrency

Donald Trump wrote: »

UK vs rest of EU?



Notwithstanding the ludicrous suggestion, given that it isn't even the most militarily strong country in the EU, your hypothetical sabre rattling scenario probably wouldn't work out too well for UK https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing-europe.asp .

It would be like the fella threatening to take on a full football team simultaneously when there are few lads on that team who would beat him individually in a one-on-one situation





(I know title said not pic or gif dump, but I don't think links are prohibited. Click on it if you want. This is a link to a video that I was reminded of by your post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY . From the satirical show "The Day Today")

Are you for real? Please inform me of this battle hardened proven force that has a stronger military then the UK in the EU.

Donald Trump

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Are you for real? Please inform me of this battle hardened proven force that has a stronger military then the UK in the EU.

Show me some sources that claim UK is stronger?


UK is 5th ranked in terms of standing soldiers.


It's not the 1800's any more

Necro

cryptocurrency wrote:

Are you for real? Please inform me of this battle hardened proven force that has a stronger military then the UK in the EU.

I think the more pertinent question is are you for real or have you played too much Call of Duty...

RobMc59

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Similarly, in recent weeks, The Mail appointed a Remainer as editor. It immediately became much more supportive of May.

It could be that the penny has finally dropped as to what is infinitely a superior club to be in rather than out.

Folkstonian

Donald Trump wrote: »

Show me some sources that claim UK is stronger?


UK is 5th ranked in terms of standing soldiers.


It's not the 1800's any more

I hope you realise you come across as poorly in your little tit-for-tat exchange as the poster you’re replying to?

Britain and Europe aren’t going to war.

Wars, when they are fought, aren’t won by comparing values found on internet spreadsheets. They tell nothing of the real world frictions that every nation faces. It comes across as infantile and petty

The French military has serious mechanical reliability problems at the moment especially amongst it’s helicopter fleet, it’s one of the main reasons the RAF has become a key ally in West Africa for them with chinooks doing a substantial amount of their heavy lifting

Britain, similarly has gaps in its defence capabilities (not least a total reliance on the US navy in anti submarine patrol aircraft) that the MoD are scrambling to patch up

That’s the real world