Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please
Options
Comments
-
Mark Francois was on Sky News earlier. The ERG have condensed the WA down to 7 pages. Told everybody to read it.
The Sky News presenter tried to get a straight answer out of him but there was no chance of that. Let him away with a lot of stuff especially the fact that this was a one sided document.
Also, the MP kept repeating the 17.4 million voters phrase as if 17.4 million people voted to leave and zero voted to remain. Only the 17.4 million matter.0 -
Apparently, the 48 letters needed to trigger a leadership contest haven't been receive yet.
Is JRM about to be shown up for the loud mouth non entity that many suspected he is?
It is pretty embarrassing if they cannot even get that small number together given all the sabre rattling and threats they have given over the last two years.0 -
The Norway deal isn't really a deal; it is what happens if Britain fails to notify the EEA of their intention that to leave the EEA after Brexit. Britain then remains a member of the EEA and trades with other EEA states (including all EU members) on that basis.Norway deal? If you're a Brexiteer, then that's even worse than the current proposal, surely. At least the current deal restricts immigration. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I believe that controlling immigration was the primary thrust of the whole thing among ordinary British Brexit voters.
Accepting the FFs will be completely unacceptable to all but the very softest Brexiteers.
Regarding the Irish border, the GFA + Ireland remaining in the EU + wanting to maintain the integrity of the UK makes a clean Brexit impossible. One of these would need to go.
While many may have voted for immigration and other reasons, the EEA option may well be attractive to Tory brexiters as it allows independent trade deals and may allow a bridge to full exit some time in the future.
It is a lot less attractive to Ireland as agricultural exports would be subject to tariffs. This is also where we would be hit hardest in the event of a crash out exit. In addition, we would be required by Brussels to erect a hard border with the North. This is why I think Ireland blocked a court case brought by UK remainers that would have determined the UK's right to remain in the EEA.0 -
There has to be a greater than 50% consensus in a referendum for it to work so therefore 3 questions are out. So it has to be
1: Mays deal or
2: Stay in the EU.
But this does not cover the people who want a hard brexit. This is why I think referenda are so undemocratic. They are at best a blunt crude instrument and at worst lethal, dangerous and divisory. The first brexit vote was undemocratic too and should never have happened for such a complicated question. But there is no way of putting the genie back into the bottle now. Civil war without the ammunition for the forseeable future.0 -
Publicly it's known that 23 have submitted letters. More may have done so and not said it. Do people believe that there are 25 shy MPs who have submitted letters?
If the 48 number is achieved, will they get 100 MPs to back it? As some previous poster said, they would need that at least to have any chance.0 -
Advertisement
-
10000maniacs wrote: »There has to be a greater than 50% consensus in a referendum for it to work so therefore 3 questions are out. So it has to be
1: Mays deal or
2: Stay in the EU.
But this does not cover the people who want a hard brexit. This is why I think referenda are so undemocratic. They are at best a blunt crude instrument and at worst lethal, dangerous and divisory. The first brexit vote was undemocratic too and should never have happened for such a complicated question. But there is no way of putting the genie back into the bottle now. Civil war without the ammunition for the forseeable future.
It was terrible as used in this context. Wrong approach, horrible set up (four countries*, three of which together aren't as large as the fourth) on a 50+1 question, wrong questions - oh and sneakily changing the rules on the electorate.
There is a place for them, particularly in small, relatively homogenous - preferably with a decent level of education - states - such as Ireland or Switzerland. But there's good reason almost all large groups (I.e. nations) move away from direct democracy (not all to do with corrupt power-takers either, not that that isn't also a reason!).0 -
Water John wrote: »Publicly it's known that 23 have submitted letters. More may have done so and not said it. Do people believe that there are 25 shy MPs who have submitted letters?
If the 48 number is achieved, will they get 100 MPs to back it? As some previous poster said, they would need that at least to have any chance.
I don't think they have the 48 letters right now, they may get them in the next few days, but the fact its taking so long and they are far more than 48 MPS unimpressed with May does not reflect well on Baker and JRM whatsoever.
Their is a reason why Gove has not stuck the knife in, he is still a ruthless so and so who is desperate for the top job, but he knows if he does it again he must be guaranteed to win, their will be plenty of other Brexiters keeping quiet who don't want to be on a losing side also.0 -
It's more than that, West Germany didn't have much of a military because the allied powers gave it a better option. The economic reforms and investment initiated by the Marshall plan follwed up by the ECSC and the EEC-EU led directly to the 'Wirtschaftswunder' or economic miracle. It's factories were busy building Volkswagens and selling them to the west, bringing lots of employment and rising living standards.
Switching production to war machinery and the trade embargo imposed by the allied power which inevitably would follow, would have tanked the economy (no pun intended) and that is the main reason Germany was never interested in war with it's old enemies again.
It's not really driven by the EU as much as it is driven by the former Warsaw pact states themselves. Their primary foreign policy objective is to never be dominated by Russia again. The most committed NATO members today are Poland and the Blatics for a reason.
The CIS is a paltry attempt at economic union. Russia's main trade partners are still the EU and China, with the CIS being minuscule in comparison.
I often think about what a missed opportunity it was. Imagine what the world would be like today if Russia was an EU and NATO member. There probably wouldn't be Trump, Brexit, the Syrian Civil War or the Iran-Saudi Arabia hegemony destabilising the middle east. The EU would share a border with China and North Korea and have a Pacific coastline.
Things could be shocking boring though0 -
You've said it yourself, 'potential aggressor' is the key term, it's impossible for EU members to go to war with one another. They're not 'potential aggressors' precisely because of their economic co-reliance as a result of integration.
The Soviet Union and now Russia is not an EU member and does not share deep economic and political integration with the rest of Europe and so it remains as the only potential aggressor for that very reason.
If after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the EU and the US set up a Marshall Plan for Russia with the explicit aim of integrating Russia into the western economic system and therefor binding its potential prosperity and success with the rest of Europe we would not be in the mess we are today.
Instead what happened was a strategy of economic shock therapy in which state assets in Russia were sold of to the future oligarchy for pennies on the dollar. With little assistance from the west the Russian economy completely collapsed and people couldn't afford to feed themselves or to heat their homes in the cold dark Russian winter. This allowed a strong man 'Putin' to take power and the rest is history.
Had leaders in the west in the early 90s had the foresight we would be in a very different world today and NATO would be truly obsolete.
Your assertion that the current global situation is the fault of the west not taking control of post soviet russia is bizarre -in addition to this russia is actively trying to cause as much mayhem and their insidious meddling,whether it's trying to undermine the EU or NATO makes them the pariah they are0 -
Your assertion that the current global situation is the fault of the west not taking control of post soviet russia is bizarre -in addition to this russia is actively trying to cause as much mayhem and their insidious meddling,whether it's trying to undermine the EU or NATO makes them the pariah they are
It's not the 'fault' of the west, it was simply a missed opportunity. No more than it was the fault of the Entente Powers for the rise of Hitler. It's not hard to see the parallels.
Germany after WWI, the Versailles Treaty, and the Great Depression leading directly to the rise of the Nazi party. Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the IMF imposed 'shock therapy' the resultant depression where GDP fell by 50%, leading directly to the rise of Putin.
Putin has said many time the the fall of the Soviet Union and the ensuing chaos was the greatest tragedy ever to befall Russia and he blames the west for it. This led him directly to his current foreign policy agenda of causing mayhem and insidious meddling in order to divide and weaken the west.0 -
Advertisement
-
Putin has said many time the the fall of the Soviet Union and the ensuing chaos was the greatest tragedy ever to befall Russia and he blames the west for it. This led him directly to his current foreign policy agenda of causing mayhem and insidious meddling in order to divide and weaken the west.
On the PBS Frontline episode, "Putin's Revenge", it was said that Putin had seen the video of Gaddafi in the hands of those Libyan rebels, and it became all Putin could talk about for a while. He had growing fears that western powers were planning something similar for him and resolved to pre-empt that through Russia's current espionage tactics.0 -
Excellent points.You've said it yourself, 'potential aggressor' is the key term, it's impossible for EU members to go to war with one another. They're not 'potential aggressors' precisely because of their economic co-reliance as a result of integration.
The Soviet Union and now Russia is not an EU member and does not share deep economic and political integration with the rest of Europe and so it remains as the only potential aggressor for that very reason.
If after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the EU and the US set up a Marshall Plan for Russia with the explicit aim of integrating Russia into the western economic system and therefor binding its potential prosperity and success with the rest of Europe we would not be in the mess we are today.
Instead what happened was a strategy of economic shock therapy in which state assets in Russia were sold of to the future oligarchy for pennies on the dollar. With little assistance from the west the Russian economy completely collapsed and people couldn't afford to feed themselves or to heat their homes in the cold dark Russian winter. This allowed a strong man 'Putin' to take power and the rest is history.
Had leaders in the west in the early 90s had the foresight we would be in a very different world today and NATO would be truly obsolete.
I'm pretty sure that Gorbachev's aim was to get a Marshall Plan-type arrangement set up to allow the USSR to transition to social democracy. It could still have been done for Russia even after the break up of the USSR.
There are a lot of echoes of the penal terms that were imposed on Germany after World War I in the way Russia was treated after the fall of communism.
That is not to defend Putin's regime in any way, because it is a murderous, kleptocratic, authoritarian, propagandist regime - but if penal terms are imposed on a country, it enables the rise of demagogues.
That was the mistake that Europe learned from after World War II and that learning enabled the rise of Germany as a force of moderation and common sense.
Ironically we now face a similar scenario as regards Britain, except that in this case, it's an entirely imagined oppression, and any penal terms they suffer will come about entirely by their own choice at the ballot box.
This extract from Fintan O'Toole's forthcoming book is required reading about the mindset that has led Britain to this precipice.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/16/brexit-paranoid-fantasy-fintan-otoole0 -
Rhineshark wrote: »It was terrible as used in this context. Wrong approach, horrible set up (four countries*, three of which together aren't as large as the fourth) on a 50+1 question, wrong questions - oh and sneakily changing the rules on the electorate.
There is a place for them, particularly in small, relatively homogenous - preferably with a decent level of education - states - such as Ireland or Switzerland. But there's good reason almost all large groups (I.e. nations) move away from direct democracy (not all to do with corrupt power-takers either, not that that isn't also a reason!).
That's a very good point. They probably work well in small, close knit countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Denmark but are not a good idea for a country the size of the UK and which actually contains four different countries. What we have discovered in the last two and a half years is that a referendum has the capacity to be deeply divisive in a country like Britain and to make the political situation considerably worse, not better.0 -
Your assertion that the current global situation is the fault of the west not taking control of post soviet russia is bizarre -in addition to this russia is actively trying to cause as much mayhem and their insidious meddling,whether it's trying to undermine the EU or NATO makes them the pariah they are
It's not really a case of the west taking control of Post Soviet Russia but rather would thing's have been far different if thing's had been much smoother and stable with significant investment into the country. The Russia of today is partially a result of the likes of Oligarchs seizing key industries for a fraction of their worth and becoming rich then the likes of Putin getting in charge from all the chaos from that and turning it into an Autocratic Government a few years later.
The problem with Russia is that they have too big a chip on their shoulder over their losing the Cold War and keep using intimidation tactics and the kind of arm twisting that drove Eastern Europe away from them to begin with. They know they wont win an actual military conflict outright invading the likes of Georgia and Ukraine and taking some territory was only because they could get away with it. Any Invasion of the baltics wouldn't trigger just sanctions though because theyre both Nato and EU member states this would definately trigger a military responce which would not end well.
Brexit is their only way of getting one up on the western block just like Trump. Russians Trolling doesnt get them a military responce.0 -
I read an article about a year or so ago about when the Soviet Union fell Britain and a few other European nations wanted to bring Russia into the fold as they did with the rest of the Eastern Bloc but the Americans done everything they could to stop this.
I'll see if I can dig it up.0 -
Please explain how the proposed agreement is not a massive victory for the UK:
Access to the Customs Union with unprecedentedly limited rules, which GB can leave at any time it chooses simply limiting the SM/CU to Northern Ireland;
Precedent setting inclusion of future trade agreement aspects into the Withdrawal agreement;
Precedent setting minimal checks for access to the SM (currently between NI and GB - but possible between UK and SM);
It can even get NI out of the SM/CU by coming up with any other solution which will achieve a soft border and got the EU to concede that it must make good faith efforts to agree such a solution and that it subject to third party determination outside issues of EU law;
There is even the possibility that the UK can engineer a situation to dump NI (which let us not forget is a parasite which costs significantly more than the red bus NHS promise) onto the EU if it wants;
Special status for Northern Ireland allowing privileged access to the SM which will undoubtedly lead to greater FDI;
A "settlement of accounts" which is a fraction of what the EU wanted and that spread out over years; and
No more freedom of movement.
Seriously, why this that not considered an spectacular victory by the UK as opposed to "humiliation"?
I understand that Boris etc. wants to pretend it is bad to allow him to boo from the sidelines and why the DUP, but why otherwise is it considered bad?
Because they will be subject to EU laws, rules and rulings without helping form them. The would be accepting a deal that they are not allowed to leave on their own. They would not have met the promises in the elections of leaving the SM,CU and ECJ and this talk of an EU army and tax harmonization is against the national security interests of the UK.
The last 24hrs has been interesting and the next 48 more so. The wagons are circling on May. My worry now is Leo has doubled down to please his masters in Brussels and has now put Ireland in a bad position if his plan fails. Bertie or Enda would never have been as foolish admit this man0 -
cryptocurrency wrote: »Because they will be subject to EU laws, rules and rulings without helping form them. The would be accepting a deal that they are not allowed to leave on their own. They would not have met the promises in the elections of leaving the SM,CU and ECJ and this talk of an EU army and tax harmonization is against the national security interests of the UK.
The last 24hrs has been interesting and the next 48 more so. The wagons are circling on May. My worry now is Leo has doubled down to please his masters in Brussels and has now put Ireland in a bad position if his plan fails. Bertie or Enda would never have been as foolish admit this man
Leo is one of the masters in Brussels. The UK wants a whole pile of stuff that they could have by remaining one of the masters in the EU. They didn't.
An abrupt exit will destroy their economy. The agreement provides a bridge where they get sone of the benefits of being an EU member without being a member.
Not being a member removes their right to influence.0 -
Just watching the interview with Corbyn on Sky News - scroll back to 9am here:
https://news.sky.com/watch-live
Basically what we've gleened so far, is that a second referendum might be an option in the future and that there might be a general election (despite it being pointed out how unlikely that is), he will go back to the EU to renegotiate the backstop and other parts of the deal as it can easily be done in 3 months because they need the UK as much as the UK needs them and therefore even the stuff the EU say is not possible they will be able to achieve.
He's pretty much as deluded as the Tories, I'm afraid, it tells you all about the quality of politicians at Westminster at the moment, the worst group of Tory politicians continue to be allowed to carry on with little realistic challenge, since the leader of the opposition continues to give them an easy ride rather than taking them on.
He's also said he's not read all of the paper and pretty much displaying a lack of leadership and fantasy spin, when he said that he didn't know how he would vote in a second ref.
The stance of Jez who is in charge of a party whose members want to stay is bizarre. Jez has all the information everyone here has about the downfalls of Brexit, heck as a party leader much more but his current stance is either due to the following reasons...
1 He is a secret Leaver
2 He knows Brexit will be a disaster, but has decided this neutral stance and a possible no deal can be justified if it means he gets a general election and he wins power.
Either stance for a man who is supposedly on the right side of history always is shambolic.0 -
cryptocurrency wrote: »Because they will be subject to EU laws, rules and rulings without helping form them. The would be accepting a deal that they are not allowed to leave on their own. They would not have met the promises in the elections of leaving the SM,CU and ECJ and this talk of an EU army and tax harmonization is against the national security interests of the UK.
The last 24hrs has been interesting and the next 48 more so. The wagons are circling on May. My worry now is Leo has doubled down to please his masters in Brussels and has now put Ireland in a bad position if his plan fails. Bertie or Enda would never have been as foolish admit this man
That last line is one parroted by Brexiters a lot. Rare enough to see it on an Irish forum as we very well know Kenny and his gov got the question on the table and got it made one of the vital points that need sorting in the WA. Hell, Kenny's last act as Taoiseach involving Brexit preparations was ensuring that shoukd a UI come about, NI woukd be able to accede to the EU easily.
This was his plan that Varadkar continued. This is widely and publically known. To say that Kenny would never have carried out the plan as Varadkar has been doing is risible and seriously, only the Brexiters think so. And they don't share a reality with anyone else, let alone facts.
Grant you Bertie as he had nothing to do with it. But given his comments since, I suspect you'd be on a hiding to nothing expecting him not to have defended Ireland in the same way.0 -
cryptocurrency wrote: »The last 24hrs has been interesting and the next 48 more so. The wagons are circling on May. My worry now is Leo has doubled down to please his masters in Brussels and has now put Ireland in a bad position if his plan fails. Bertie or Enda would never have been as foolish admit this man
Taoiseach Varadkar does not have masters in Brissels, he is a head of state of one of the EU member states. He has an equal seat on the European Council, to which the EU Commission is responsible. While other heads of government/state have an equal position to our Taoiseach in the EU, no one has a superior position.0 -
Advertisement
-
Taoiseach Varadkar does not have masters in Brissels, he is a head of state of one of the EU member states. He has an equal seat on the European Council, to which the EU Commission is responsible. While other heads of government/state have an equal position to our Taoiseach in the EU, no one has a superior position.
We are a Vassal state, occupied by the Franco/German EU empire, Varadkar and co. are our quisling Government implementing law from Brussels, we have no say in EU matters and makeup 0.89% of the EU population. We are in the exact same position today as 100 years ago but instead of British Rule we are under EU rule, an EU Army is looming large to occupy countries should any other country try a Brexit style stunt. Germany is currently striving to attain a Nuclear bomb and with an EU Army they will achieve this by controlling the French stockpile. The EU promote migration and social engineering to ensure the population remains docile and obedient and not one shot has to be fired. We have come a far way from a trading agreement. The EU has imperial ambitions and this is becoming clearer every day.0 -
We are a Vassal state, occupied by the Franco/German EU empire, Varadkar and co. are our quisling Government implementing law from Brussels, we have no say in EU matters and makeup 0.89% of the EU population. We are in the exact same position today as 100 years ago but instead of British Rule we are under EU rule, an EU Army is looming large to occupy countries should any other country try a Brexit style stunt. Germany is currently striving to attain a Nuclear bomb and with an EU Army they will achieve this by controlling the French stockpile. The EU promote migration and social engineering to ensure the population remains docile and obedient and not one shot has to be fired. We have come a far way from a trading agreement. The EU has imperial ambitions and this is becoming clearer every day.
I'll have what you're drinking.
ERG seven page summary:
https://brexitcentral.com/erg-publish-right-know-case-governments-brexit-deal/0 -
We are a Vassal state, occupied by the Franco/German EU empire, Varadkar and co. are our quisling Government implementing law from Brussels, we have no say in EU matters and makeup 0.89% of the EU population. We are in the exact same position today as 100 years ago but instead of British Rule we are under EU rule, an EU Army is looming large to occupy countries should any other country try a Brexit style stunt. Germany is currently striving to attain a Nuclear bomb and with an EU Army they will achieve this by controlling the French stockpile. The EU promote migration and social engineering to ensure the population remains docile and obedient and not one shot has to be fired. We have come a far way from a trading agreement. The EU has imperial ambitions and this is becoming clearer every day.
The level of delusion contained in this post is shocking. I am actually concerned for you.0 -
Rhineshark wrote: »cryptocurrency wrote: »Because they will be subject to EU laws, rules and rulings without helping form them. The would be accepting a deal that they are not allowed to leave on their own. They would not have met the promises in the elections of leaving the SM,CU and ECJ and this talk of an EU army and tax harmonization is against the national security interests of the UK.
The last 24hrs has been interesting and the next 48 more so. The wagons are circling on May. My worry now is Leo has doubled down to please his masters in Brussels and has now put Ireland in a bad position if his plan fails. Bertie or Enda would never have been as foolish admit this man
That last line is one parroted by Brexiters a lot. Rare enough to see it on an Irish forum as we very well know Kenny and his gov got the question on the table and got it made one of the vital points that need sorting in the WA. Hell, Kenny's last act as Taoiseach involving Brexit preparations was ensuring that shoukd a UI come about, NI woukd be able to accede to the EU easily.
This was his plan that Varadkar continued. This is widely and publically known. To say that Kenny would never have carried out the plan as Varadkar has been doing is risible and seriously, only the Brexiters think so. And they don't share a reality with anyone else, let alone facts.
Grant you Bertie as he had nothing to do with it. But given his comments since, I suspect you'd be on a hiding to nothing expecting him not to have defended Ireland in the same way.
Indeed, as recently as last Sunday's Week In Politics, Bertie paid tribute to the Government's handling of the negotiations.0 -
All over twitter :
"Dominic Raab was told by British diplomats that Martin Selmayr had boasted that losing Northern Ireland would be the "price" Britain has to pay for Brexit."
Martin Selmayr is having a big say in our country. Someone unelected by us and put into position by more than dubious circumstances by Junker.0 -
We are a Vassal state, occupied by the Franco/German EU empire, Varadkar and co. are our quisling Government implementing law from Brussels, we have no say in EU matters and makeup 0.89% of the EU population. We are in the exact same position today as 100 years ago but instead of British Rule we are under EU rule, an EU Army is looming large to occupy countries should any other country try a Brexit style stunt. Germany is currently striving to attain a Nuclear bomb and with an EU Army they will achieve this by controlling the French stockpile. The EU promote migration and social engineering to ensure the population remains docile and obedient and not one shot has to be fired. We have come a far way from a trading agreement. The EU has imperial ambitions and this is becoming clearer every day.
Wow. This is the kind of thinking that brought about a vote to leave in the UK. Thankfully it's not very wide spread here, apart from the odd bar stool revolutionary. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but make no mistake, not all opinions are right.
United we stand, divided we fall. Welcome to the real world kids.0 -
An Ciarraioch wrote: »Indeed, as recently as last Sunday's Week In Politics, Bertie paid tribute to the Government's handling of the negotiations.
If Bertie approves of anything you know it bad for this country.
Is any Europhile here familiar with https://ec.europa.eu/eures/public/language-selection
This website promotes Irish jobs to Europeans, will pay them to move to Ireland flights and one month accommodation and will pay Irish employers a €1,000 subsidy for to hire a non-Irish worker instead of an Irish citizen. Like the Plantations of Ireland in the 1600's migration is being used as a weapon against the native population to cement political control.0 -
Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 89824
So they don't even have half the number they need ?Water John wrote: »Publicly it's known that 23 have submitted letters. More may have done so and not said it. Do people believe that there are 25 shy MPs who have submitted letters?
If the 48 number is achieved, will they get 100 MPs to back it? As some previous poster said, they would need that at least to have any chance.
Only one man knows for sure.
Handing in a letter now is a free action. All it does in ramp up the pressure a notch but we are miles away from triggering something.
It's only when the last few come in that it matters, and if the aim is to sabotage a leave deal then timing is critical. Too soon and May might recover, too late and it won't matter.
Two possible curveballs.
The Scottish Tories MP's submit their letters in a bid to get Ruth Davidson into No 10 as a bid for glory or to defer indyref or prevent an election. But she's just dropped a sprog so might not as much time for backstabbing as those further south.
May / strategist send in a few letters.
Either way the result could be a leadership contest triggered way too early by someone who wasn't expecting it, with a bit of luck it could be Boris or Grove and besides if May wins then she's safe for another year.
At present May is likely to win by default like she won the leadership contest because of widespread Chronic Backstabbing Disorder and Foot in Mouth.0 -
We are a Vassal state, occupied by the Franco/German EU empire, Varadkar and co. are our quisling Government implementing law from Brussels, we have no say in EU matters and makeup 0.89% of the EU population. We are in the exact same position today as 100 years ago but instead of British Rule we are under EU rule, an EU Army is looming large to occupy countries should any other country try a Brexit style stunt. Germany is currently striving to attain a Nuclear bomb and with an EU Army they will achieve this by controlling the French stockpile. The EU promote migration and social engineering to ensure the population remains docile and obedient and not one shot has to be fired. We have come a far way from a trading agreement. The EU has imperial ambitions and this is becoming clearer every day.
What a complete load of cobblers. Is this the serious politics forum or the conspiracy forum?0 -
Advertisement
-
This website promotes Irish jobs to Europeans, will pay them to move to Ireland flights and one month accommodation and will pay Irish employers a €1,000 subsidy for to hire a non-Irish worker instead of an Irish citizen. Like the Plantations of Ireland in the 1600's migration is being used as a weapon against the native population to cement political control.
Also does the same for Brits looking for work in Poland or Greeks looking for work in Germany, or any combination of worker and employer. So hardly a return to the plantations of old.
But for argument's sake, how would you interpret my presence in France as an Irishman, entitled to affect the outcome of the election for my local French MEP? Obviously I won't vote for anyone who's likely to oppose Irish policies that I think are well-founded, and am free to influence my social circle in the hope of convincing them to follow my lead.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement