Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Enzokk

Scoondal wrote: »

The opinion of Irish people is totally irrelevant. The citizens of United Kingdom voted to leave Europen Union.
Does anyone here have a problem with this ?

I do, because the votes were based on lies and the Leave.EU campaign was found to have violated the rules. So they cheated and we still don't know where the money came from that Aaron Banks donated for the campaign either.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Are these rules not violated in all elections. Does anybody think that no foreign money ever comes into other UK elections?

Tell me how

Scoondal wrote: »

I'm trying to simplify a fact.
The people of U.K. have voted to leave E.U..
That is a fact, not a simplistic slogan.
Do you accept democracy ?

What, specifically, makes you think people here have a problem with democracy?

Would you accept a democratic vote on the deal which Theresa has negotiated?

Do you think many people voted to leave because they were lied to about how things would be once they did so and now that the facts are known about real life implications of this, it is very different to what they expected?

Scoondal

Okay. For those people who do not understand.
In June 2016, the people of United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. The UK government has set 29 March 2019 as the date of leaving EU.
Some here seem to have a problem with a government being answerable to the citizens.
These are facts. A good deal would be nice, of course. But democracy should be upheld because the stated opinion of citizens is the most powerful mandate a government can receive.

brickster69

Looks like Eurozone will be getting the cheque book out soon. Need a big one like !


Deutche bank share price hit all time lows with the 5 year DB bond indicating a near 20% risk of default.

FT reports that up to 80% of Danske bank " dirty dealings " went through DB.

listermint

Scoondal wrote: »

Okay. For those people who do not understand.
In June 2016, the people of United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. The UK government has set 29 March 2019 as the date of leaving EU.
Some here seem to have a problem with a government being answerable to the citizens.
These are facts. A good deal would be nice, of course. But democracy should be upheld because the stated opinion of citizens is the most powerful mandate a government can receive.

Yeah that's all grand but why are you trolling the thread with nothing but the same line every post.


It's embarrassing

Enzokk

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Are these rules not violated in all elections. Does anybody think that no foreign money ever comes into other UK elections?

Not to the extent that it happened in this referendum. Yes there was cases against other parties during the referendum campaign as well as documented below,

Electoral commission fines Remain campaigners £19,000

Remain campaigners have been fined £19,000 for failing to declare their spending properly during the EU referendum campaign.

The Liberal Democrats were fined £18,000 by the Electoral Commission, near the legal maximum fine of £20,000, mainly for “failing to provide acceptable invoices or receipts for 80 payments”.

“Where the rules are not followed, transparency is lost which is not in the public interest or as parliament intended,” said Bob Posner, the Commission’s legal counsel.

Meanwhile, the official Remain campaign, then known as Britain Stronger in Europe, now Open Britain, has paid a £1,250 fine imposed for not providing three invoices and for declaring some spending in aggregate rather than individual payments.

The Electoral Commission, Britain’s electoral watchdog, is still undertaking high-profile investigations into the official Leave campaign, Vote Leave, and another major Brexit group, Leave.EU and its founder Arron Banks.

Here is the report so far into the Leave campaigns,

Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission

Vote Leave has been fined £61,000 and reported to the police by the Electoral Commission after the watchdog found “significant evidence” of coordination with another campaign group, BeLeave.

The watchdog said it had imposed punitive fines on Vote Leave because it said the group had refused to cooperate fully with its investigation and declined to be interviewed. Its former chief executive, Matthew Elliott, had previously alleged it was the Electoral Commission that had refused to cooperate. Vote Leave called the findings “wholly inaccurate”.

So one campaign has been fined for not providing appropriate invoices, the other has been referred to the police. This is just for coordination between the campaigns and overspending, not for the source of the funds which is another case that has been reported to the NCA.

I don't remember any other elections having these kind of cases in the UK. We also need to think about Theresa May possibly blocking an investigation into Arron Banks by MI5.

Theresa May urged to confirm if ministers blocked MI5 probe into Brexit donor Arron Banks

Theresa May was yesterday urged to confirm whether or not ministers blocked an MI5 probe into Brexit donor Arron Banks.

Labour’s Ben Bradshaw wrote to the PM a day after it was announced the National Crime Agency was investigating the source of £8million funding Mr Banks apparently pumped into the Leave campaign.


It has been claimed security services were stopped from ­investigating Mr Banks in 2016.

Tell me how

Scoondal wrote: »

Okay. For those people who do not understand.
In June 2016, the people of United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. The UK government has set 29 March 2019 as the date of leaving EU.
Some here seem to have a problem with a government being answerable to the citizens.
These are facts. A good deal would be nice, of course. But democracy should be upheld because the stated opinion of citizens is the most powerful mandate a government can receive.

Ok, I'll play.

imagine you and your family live in the following house.



Say I asked you did you want to move house. You and your family had to vote to accept the house or not even though it is not yet built. I showed you the following picture and said that you could have something "like" this after the vote if you voted to accept.



You voted to accept.

I went off and prepared your house and now it is time for you to move in to it. Here is the house which is waiting for you.



Do you think the vote should be accepted and uphold or would you demand to stay in your current house as you had been lied to about what you would receive?

Please stick around and give us some of the wide range of opinions that are missing here (but apparently exist elsewhere).

Scoondal

Tell me how wrote: »

What, specifically, makes you think people here have a problem with democracy?

Would you accept a democratic vote on the deal which Theresa has negotiated?


Of course not !
The people voted. Mrs. May ( a remainer) has negotiated a "deal" according to the wishes of her people. Parliament will now decide to accept this "deal" or to reject it.
Again I say, Brexit is not complicated. UK will leave EU.
I will be celebrating on 30 March because I want less UK influence in Ireland.

bilston

Scoondal wrote: »

Okay. For those people who do not understand.
In June 2016, the people of United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. The UK government has set 29 March 2019 as the date of leaving EU.
Some here seem to have a problem with a government being answerable to the citizens.
These are facts. A good deal would be nice, of course. But democracy should be upheld because the stated opinion of citizens is the most powerful mandate a government can receive.

The stated opinion of 17.3 million citizens on one given day, as opposed to the opinion of the 16.1 million citizens on one particular given whose opinion now is completely irrelevant.

I'm also fed up with the term "the will of the people"...no it's the will of some of the people.

While I'm here a guy from You Gov was on the radio about an hour ago commenting on a You Gov poll which showed that out of 20,000 respondents across every GB constituency, out of three choices, Remain, May Deal and No Deal, 600 seats gave Remain as first preference. The BBC presenter started the interview by saying something along the lines of...let's ignore the Remain option as it's irrelevant...no it's not fecking irrelevant, it's common fecking sense...

An Ciarraioch

bilston wrote: »

Scoondal wrote: »

Okay. For those people who do not understand.
In June 2016, the people of United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. The UK government has set 29 March 2019 as the date of leaving EU.
Some here seem to have a problem with a government being answerable to the citizens.
These are facts. A good deal would be nice, of course. But democracy should be upheld because the stated opinion of citizens is the most powerful mandate a government can receive.

The stated opinion of 17.3 million citizens on one given day, as opposed to the opinion of the 16.1 million citizens on one particular given whose opinion now is completely irrelevant.

I'm also fed up with the term "the will of the people"...no it's the will of some of the people.

While I'm here a guy from You Gov was on the radio about an hour ago commenting on a You Gov poll which showed that out of 20,000 respondents across every GB constituency, out of three choices, Remain, May Deal and No Deal, 600 seats gave Remain as first preference. The BBC presenter started the interview by saying something along the lines of...let's ignore the Remain option as it's irrelevant...no it's not fecking irrelevant, it's common fecking sense...

Two standout stats - 30% of Labour voters support Leave (same as 2016), only 19% of Tories are Remain.

Tell me how

Scoondal wrote: »

Of course not !
The people voted. Mrs. May ( a remainer) has negotiated a "deal" according to the wishes of her people. Parliament will now decide to accept this "deal" or to reject it.
Again I say, Brexit is not complicated. UK will leave EU.
I will be celebrating on 30 March because I want less UK influence in Ireland.

Good luck. I won't be engaging again unless I see you make reasonable points.

bilston

Not sure if it's from the same poll as above but on 14/15 Nov a You Gov poll gave Remain 55% and Leave 45%...once you start getting consistent polls showing 55%+ for Remain then surely a second referendum has to be seriously considered.

Infini

Scoondal wrote: »

The opinion of Irish people is totally irrelevant. The citizens of United Kingdom voted to leave Europen Union.
Does anyone here have a problem with this ?

So long as your country still has a presence on our island and is causing us problems then yes exactly. Give the rest of it back and take the village idiots with you and then its a different story.

theguzman

bilston wrote: »

Not sure if it's from the same poll as above but on 14/15 Nov a You Gov poll gave Remain 55% and Leave 45%...once you start getting consistent polls showing 55%+ for Remain then surely a second referendum has to be seriously considered.

About similar to what was predicted post Referendum and then the true English patriots came out in their millions and voted to leave, people were too shy to admit being Anti-EU due to been cast as everything from a bigot, racist and homophobe. If there was a second referendum there you could reverse those figures as such an insult to democracy would only harden the resolve of the British people and it would be an even bigger No second time around.

bilston

Infini wrote: »

So long as your country still has a presence on our island and is causing us problems then yes exactly. Give the rest of it back and take the village idiots with you and then its a different story.

Who are the village idiots?

tuxy

bilston wrote: »

Who are the village idiots?

DUP voters

bilston

tuxy wrote: »

DUP voters

Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

Tell me how

bilston wrote: »

Well I hope that's not what he/she means, because it sounds pretty ominous regarding any hope for an all inclusive United Ireland should it ever happen if that's the prevailing attitude towards Unionists.

Maybe not prevailing but what are unionists, and specifically the DUP themselves doing to promote inter-community acceptance?

They won't even represent the wishes of the majority of their community.

Infini

bilston wrote: »

Who are the village idiots?

I would point at the likes of the DUP (the party itself NOT the people who vote for them) who helped caused this mess by supporting a position that was both self defeating to their own union, allowed themselves to be used by dodgy interests to funnel campaign money for Brexit, have absolutely no interest in the common good and are out for their own narrow ideological interests and are more than happy to shítetalk with crap like "blood red lines" instead of respect the will of the clear majority of NI and the business interests. They don't even have any damn integrity look at the whole "ash for cash" scandal. Running from the responsibility of their own making and blame others. They'd also be the ones who still throw tantrums if a border poll were to come about and NI voted for reunification so yeah "village idiots" is apt term for them as they refuse reality and logical thinking. I have no issue with unionists I would actually like to see people working together I just would rather they take those who CANNOT accept that and would ruin things for everyone just go somewhere else if thats their attitude to refusing to face reality rather than ruin things for everyone else.

I don't blame unionists up there for voting the way they do I don't honestly give a damn what religion or background they have because its irrelevant to me. Idiots are a universal bane of this existence in every part of the world and the worst ones are those who are in leadership positions and shirk responsibility for narrow minded ideology. Brexit has been such a mess from the beginning because idiots from both the DUP and Conservatives have been shown as incompetent failures who have no interest beyond their blinkered ideology and they're gonna ruin things for everyone around them unless Brexit gets cancelled.

Professor Moriarty

It's very interesting to watch Foster, Wilson, Dodds etc. being interviewed by Sky, C4, BBC etc. The average voter in GB hasn't a clue about NI politics so when the DUP say "The people of Northern Ireland want...." they are being extremely disingenuous.

Instead they should say "The 36% of people in Northern Ireland who voted for us in the last election want...".

Even more applicable would be "The 31% of people in Northern Ireland who would vote for us today want...".

tuxy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Even more applicable would be "The 31% of people in Northern Ireland who would vote for us today want...".

Sure the Brits will love to hear that, 67% of them voted to keep the first past the post voting system in 2011.

Water John

Remember that it's a problem in the UK too. The Govn't usually represents 36% or less of the voters.

Scoondal

bilston wrote: »

The stated opinion of 17.3 million citizens on one given day, as opposed to the opinion of the 16.1 million citizens on one particular given whose opinion now is completely irrelevant.

I'm also fed up with the term "the will of the people"...no it's the will of some of the people.

While I'm here a guy from You Gov was on the radio about an hour ago commenting on a You Gov poll which showed that out of 20,000 respondents across every GB constituency, out of three choices, Remain, May Deal and No Deal, 600 seats gave Remain as first preference. The BBC presenter started the interview by saying something along the lines of...let's ignore the Remain option as it's irrelevant...no it's not fecking irrelevant, it's common fecking sense...

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

tuxy

Water John wrote: »

Remember that it's a problem in the UK too. The Govn't usually represents 36% or less of the voters.

The public voted for this in 2011 it's the will of the people to be under represented in parliament.

Beechwoodspark

It looks like the remain option has become really strong in the Uk over the last 6 months

Scoondal

Just because lazy " Remainers " didn't bother their fat arses to vote, now means that those lazy people's opinions have now become irrelevant.
Now go back to watching your english football.

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

Remember that it's a problem in the UK too. The Govn't usually represents 36% or less of the voters.

Indeed, but NI is very different. For a start, the devolved government hasn't sat for nearly two years. Because of that and because of SF's abstentionist policy, the only voices that people in GB hear are those of the DUP. Throw in the fact that the Tories need the DUP and you get the misrepresentation that Foster is the leader of NI and speaks for its people. She doesn't, she's just a party leader whose vote has dwindled to 31%. She leads and represents nobody but the DUP.

prawnsambo

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree ... 17.3 million for exit and only 16.1 million remain. DEMOCRACY.

You spelled stupidity wrong.

Seth Brundle

Scoondal wrote: »

I'm trying to simplify a fact.
The people of U.K. have voted to leave E.U..
That is a fact, not a simplistic slogan.
Do you accept democracy ?

What form of exit did they vote for?