Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

nuac

Have to admire May's courage to trying to see this through.
More balls than most of the Tories

Mr.Nice Guy

If renegotiating the backstop would now mean renegotiating back to the original backstop proposal last year, it's a tactic that could gain support in Brussels, after all they originally weren't offering a UK-wide customs arrangement. The obvious downside for May is that she'd leave herself open to the charge of doing what she was previously suggesting 'no British PM could ever sign up to': a customs border down the Irish sea. It would likely go down well with the likes of Liam Fox who want to get on with doing trade deals with the US and elsewhere ASAP, but probably not so much with the majority of her party.

I don't suppose she was being serious in putting it out there. More likely it was a kite floated to spook those unhappy with her current deal.

LeinsterDub

nuac wrote: »

Have to admire May's courage to trying to see this through.
More balls than most of the Tories

There is a thin line between courage and foolishness .

McGiver

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If renegotiating the backstop would now mean renegotiating back to the original backstop proposal last year, it's a tactic that could gain support in Brussels, after all they originally weren't offering a UK-wide customs arrangement. The obvious downside for May is that she'd leave herself open to the charge of doing what she was previously suggesting 'no British PM could ever sign up to': a customs border down the Irish sea. It would likely go down well with the likes of Liam Fox who want to get on with doing trade deals with the US and elsewhere ASAP, but probably not so much with the majority of her party.

I don't suppose she was being serious in putting it out there. More likely it was a kite floated to spook those unhappy with her current deal.

That means a harder Brexit essentially, not in Irish interest or the EU27 as a whole either.

nuac

Meanwhile while this matter of national importance is being discussed in Westminster, Yates is on about transport in Dublin.

Laois_Man

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If renegotiating the backstop would now mean renegotiating back to the original backstop proposal last year, it's a tactic that could gain support in Brussels, after all they originally weren't offering a UK-wide customs arrangement. The obvious downside for May is that she'd leave herself open to the charge of doing what she was previously suggesting 'no British PM could ever sign up to': a customs border down the Irish sea. It would likely go down well with the likes of Liam Fox who want to get on with doing trade deals with the US and elsewhere ASAP, but probably not so much with the majority of her party.

I don't suppose she was being serious in putting it out there. More likely it was a kite floated to spook those unhappy with her current deal.

She was being serious!
There is no chance that they are going to agree to the current deal!

DOCARCH

Kiith wrote: »

Going back to the public would lead to a lack of faith in the government?

Hah, bit too late for that PM

I think that ship sailed sometime ago and has hit an iceberg!

nuac

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There is a thin line between courage and foolishness .

She seems have more cop-on than Boris

Laois_Man

I came to this a little late. Has anyone from the DUP spoken yet?

Enzokk

Shelga wrote: »

Why does the speaker of the house always bellow so theatrically like that?? Does my head in. “PRIME MINISTEEEEEEEEER!!!”

Remember we are hearing it with the benefit of microphones and he has to shout to be heard over the noise in the chamber. If there is a quieter debate you will hear him at a more moderate level.

Mr.Nice Guy

Laois_Man wrote: »

She was being serious!
There is no chance that they are going to agree to the current deal!

Perhaps her hope is that the more time goes by, and the UK faces up to the prospect of a No Deal Brexit, and the EU continue to insist there will be no substantial renegotiation, most will then change their mind.

J Mysterio

Absolutely mind boggling.

May:

'Backstop ia temporary but we are going to go back to EU to... be reassured that backstop is temporary'

What?

Mc Love

Shelga wrote: »

Why does the speaker of the house always bellow so theatrically like that?? Does my head in. “PRIME MINISTEEEEEEEEER!!!”

I love it, sort of reminds me of those speakers in the movies at the Roman Senate.

JEREMY CORBYYYYYYYYYYYN

He'll be gone soon, he's finishing up in the summer

Professor Moriarty

This from May's speech:


So if you want a second referendum to overturn the result of the first, be honest that this risks dividing the country again, when as a House we should be striving to bring it back together.
If you want to remain part of the single market and the customs union, be open that this would require free movement, rule-taking across the economy, and ongoing financial contributions – none of which are in my view compatible with the result of the referendum.
If you want to leave without a deal, be upfront that in the short term, this would cause significant economic damage to parts of our country who can least afford to bear the burden.
I do not believe that any of those courses of action command a majority in this House.


She's spot on. Unfortunately, she neglected to mention that her deal doesn't command a majority in the House either.

briany

Mc Love wrote: »

I love it, sort of reminds me of those speakers in the movies at the Roman Senate.

JEREMY CORBYYYYYYYYYYYN

He'll be gone soon, he's finishing up in the summer

Speaker of the House looks like the most fun position in the HoC.

DOCARCH

J Mysterio wrote: »

Absolutely mind boggling.

May:

'Backstop ia temporary but we are going to go back to EU to... be reassured that backstop is temporary'

What?

It is temporary....temporary until a trade deal is agreed with the EU (and in effect).

Rjd2

May has had a bad day (no **** sherlock) but so far and despite some fine politicians questioning her, I don't think any of them have landed a knock out blow to her which is odd as its not as if they don't have much material to work with.

Laois_Man

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Perhaps her hope is that the more time goes by, and the UK faces up to the prospect of a No Deal Brexit, and the EU continue to insist there will be no substantial renegotiation, most will then change their mind.

I think the majority would be far happier to say let N. Ireland go to hell

Few of them give a toss about it!

Professor Moriarty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Absolutely mind boggling.

May:

'Backstop ia temporary but we are going to go back to EU to... be reassured that backstop is temporary'

What?

Leo said today that the deal wasn't open to renegotiation but "clarifications" were possible.

Enzokk

As to the proceeding so far, anyone have any idea what is happening? They will go back to negotiate a deal that cannot be changed according to her own words last week. They have delayed the vote on the deal to an undetermined date. They could take this all the way down to 28th March if they wanted to.

She could take it down to the wire and dare the MPs to vote for no deal because the amendment that the HoC must have a vote to stop no deal would then not come into effect.

https://twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/1072139351168114688

https://twitter.com/DavideSands/status/1072139744971239424


This on the Grieve amendment,

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1072162836846178304

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1072162964629786626

J Mysterio

May has become totally pathetic today. Absolute embarassment.

tuxy

J Mysterio wrote: »

May has become totally pathetic today. Absolute embarassment.

And yet I don't see a no confidence vote coming any time soon.

briany

Enzokk wrote: »

As to the proceeding so far, anyone have any idea what is happening? They will go back to negotiate a deal that cannot be changed according to her own words last week. They have delayed the vote on the deal to an undetermined date. They could take this all the way down to 28th March if they wanted to.

She could take it down to the wire and dare the MPs to vote for no deal because the amendment that the HoC must have a vote to stop no deal would then not come into effect.

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Looks like May is forcing this deal as a last minute my deal or no deal. There will not be enough time for a 2nd ref or general election

https://mobile.twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1072162805044969473

McGiver

briany wrote: »

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

...changing the font as the EU27 said.

J Mysterio

briany wrote: »

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

She knows and understands what the backstop is and exactly how 'temporary' it is. I dont see what Brussels can tell her that she doesnt already know.

Its totally pathetic to weasel out of the 'meaningful vote' with this. Total incomptence, it's ludicrous. I dont know how she is getting away with it.

Enzokk

I fear she will be humiliated again if she is not careful. There has been many indications that she cannot change what she negotiated and yet she has sent Ollie Robbins over to get some sort of reassurances that will not in any way be enacted.

EU figures rule out concessions as Theresa May postpones Brexit vote

Ireland’s taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, who had spoken to the UK prime minister on Sunday, said such a clarification of the EU’s intentions would be possible but pointed to the lack of substance to such an offer.

Varadkar echoed the consensus among the 27 member states that a clarification would not detract from the legal reality that the UK would fall into the backstop by default if another solution for avoiding a hard border on the island was not realisable by the end of the transition period.

He said: “We have already offered a lot of concessions along the way. We ended up with the backstop with this withdrawal agreement because of all the red lines the UK laid down along the way.

“This is a withdrawal agreement which has the support of 28 member states. It’s not possible to open up any one aspect of this without opening up all aspects of the agreement.”

Varadkar added: “I have no difficulty with statements that clarify what’s in the withdrawal agreement [like Gibraltar] but no statement of clarification can contradict what’s in it.”

Lets not forget she looks good in the HoC because she is in her own world right now, a few days ago she said its her deal of feck all, now she will go back to negotiate. She says she has listened and changed her mind but when asked about voters she refuses to give them a vote. She is a charlatan and is just making it so much easier for future prime ministers who will have to plumb to such depths to be considered a worse PM than she has been.

McGiver

J Mysterio wrote: »

She knows and understands what the backstop is and exactly how 'temporary' it is. I dont see what Brussels can tell her that she doesnt already know.

Its totally pathetic to weasel out of the 'meaningful vote' with this. Total incomptence, it's ludicrous.

I think SNP & Labour will have to make a decision on no confidence vote, otherwise the time will just run out. I don't see any other way to get rid of TM. She's sticking to the PM post as Loctite, impossible to get rid of her.

Enzokk

briany wrote: »

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

I know that, everyone in the EU knows that. I think everyone in the UK knows that and even if she comes back with a letter where the EU gives their best assurances that they will work their hardest to ensure the backstop will never be needed they will know it is a farce.

There is no way she is getting her deal through, whether on the 28th March so I am confused on what she actually is trying to do.

Laois_Man

Boris in the background finding it hard to stay awake!