Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

McGiver

By the way, I've noticed that this was the first time TM mentioned that NI wants status quo basically.

“And the fact that Brexit will create a wholly new situation: on 30 March the Northern Ireland/Ireland border will for the first time become the external frontier of the European Union’s single market and customs union. The challenge this poses must be met not with rhetoric but with real and workable solutions. Businesses operate across that border. People live their lives crossing and re-crossing it every day. I have been there and spoken to some of those people. They do not want their everyday lives to change as a result of the decision we have taken. They do not want a return to a hard border. And if this House cares about preserving our Union, it must listen to those people, because our Union will only endure with their consent.”

tuxy

Laois_Man wrote: »

Boris in the background finding it hard to stay awake!

I think I too would have to drug myself senseless to get through a day in the hoc

An Ciarraioch

Euro rapidly hurtling to 91p - at least the Northern shopping centres will profit from the chaos.

McGiver

Enzokk wrote: »

I know that, everyone in the EU knows that. I think everyone in the UK knows that and even if she comes back with a letter where the EU gives their best assurances that they will work their hardest to ensure the backstop will never be needed they will know it is a farce.

There is no way she is getting her deal through, whether on the 28th March so I am confused on what she actually is trying to do.

Delaying tactic, that's how I read it. There is no other explanation. The problem with this that she can run the clock down to No Deal in this way under the right circumstances i.e. Labour doing nothing and Tories prefer the party over the country.

Enzokk

McGiver wrote: »

By the way, I've noticed that this was the first time TM mentioned that NI wants status quo basically.

“And the fact that Brexit will create a wholly new situation: on 30 March the Northern Ireland/Ireland border will for the first time become the external frontier of the European Union’s single market and customs union. The challenge this poses must be met not with rhetoric but with real and workable solutions. Businesses operate across that border. People live their lives crossing and re-crossing it every day. I have been there and spoken to some of those people. They do not want their everyday lives to change as a result of the decision we have taken. They do not want a return to a hard border. And if this House cares about preserving our Union, it must listen to those people, because our Union will only endure with their consent.”

Yes, but she also said the country voted as a whole to leave and Scotland must follow the UK out of the EU. She is once again not being honest to the people or even herself.

McGiver

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Euro rapidly hurtling to 91p - at least the Northern shopping centres will profit from the chaos.

It's a good Christmas gift, init maties? Off to Amazon.co.uk.

Itssoeasy

I mean what an absolute shambles this has turned out to be.

Enzokk

McGiver wrote: »

Delaying tactic, that's how I read it. There is no other explanation. The problem with this that she can run the clock down to No Deal in this way under the right circumstances i.e. Labour doing nothing and Tories prefer the party over the country.

Yeah, that seems to be it but the accidental no-deal that some have been warning about is now closer than ever because of a stubborn PM. She is hoping that others will not harm themselves as much as she is willing to by taking it to the wire. What a farce.

McGiver

https://twitter.com/cbicarolyn/status/1072161702781878274

Today's delay of the Brexit vote is yet another blow for companies desperate for clarity. Investment plans have been paused for two and a half years. Unless a deal is agreed quickly, the country risks sliding towards a national crisis.

Surely, that's Project Fear. Full steam ahead! We've had enough of experts CBI etc.

Mr.Nice Guy

A lot of criticism for May, understandably, but I think Corbyn has been just as bad.

https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1072157212041248768

We have a situation where the UK party of government is making it up as it goes along, propped up by a party that says it has no confidence in the leader yet is continuing a confidence and supply arrangement, and an opposition leader who chides the PM by saying renegotiation is impossible, before saying in the next breath he will go over there and renegotiate a deal without a backstop.

If this had been written as fiction ten years ago it would have been dismissed as too far-fetched to be taken seriously. This is now the reality we are living in.

Enzokk

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A lot of criticism for May, understandably, but I think Corbyn has been just as bad.

We have a situation where the UK party of government is making it up as it goes along, propped up by a party that says it has no confidence in the leader yet is continuing a confidence and supply arrangement, and an opposition leader who chides the PM by saying renegotiation is impossible, before saying in the next breath he will go over there and renegotiate a deal without a backstop.

If this had been written as fiction ten years ago it would have been dismissed as too far-fetched to be taken seriously. This is now the reality we are living in.

Corbyn has a talking point and he is not going off it. He wants the chance to negotiate himself as PM so that is why he is talking about a renegotiation. He is not very good at thinking on his feet and is just repeating the Labour policy keywords.

As for Theresa May, she just said that her deal would not leave the UK worse off than right now, which is not true according to most projections. Even her own government projections shows they will be worse off with any deal but she lied again.

blanch152

Rjd2 wrote: »

May has had a bad day (no **** sherlock) but so far and despite some fine politicians questioning her, I don't think any of them have landed a knock out blow to her which is odd as its not as if they don't have much material to work with.

The problem for her opponents is that while they can combine to oppose her deal, they are completely divided on which alternative they prefer.

DOCARCH

Tommie Gorman put it so well just now on RTE Radio 1....

DUP have brought, from NI to the HoC, the virus of definitely knowing what you don't want, but not knowing what you want.

:P

Professor Moriarty

As May's premiership crumbles beneath her feet with such publicl humiliation, I can't help but have some sympathy for a fellow human being. As for a Tory prime minister, I couldn't give a damn.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1072178666413719552

Early signs that this is where we are headed?

Even at that, what would a second ref actually do? The place is divided mess.

Thargor

Good to hear anyway:

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072129699449589760

Laois_Man

Queue a further deterioration of Irish/British relations

Ireland will be required to give its approval to any declaration - unlikely Dublin will agree to the HoC having a veto on the backstop down the line.

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1072176773218078720

McGiver

Watching HoC live. TM has repeatedly claimed that the Leave voters all voted for a) no more FOM, b) nor more ECJ, c) no more CU and d) no more SM. Bloody fecking liar.

Mr.Nice Guy

If May's strategy is to delay the vote so that it comes down to a stark choice between her deal or no deal, well, in that case I can't wait to see what that means for the next set of polls on Scottish independence.

The Scots, who were told during the independence referendum that they should vote No to independence to safeguard their place in the EU, and who had a 62% Remain vote in the Brexit referendum, are now facing the prospect of either a) May's deal being approved - which sees them leave the EU and watch NI attain a more advantageous position, despite NI not having as high a Remain vote as the Scots - or b) crashing out of the EU in a No Deal Brexit, which would again mean leaving the EU but see a huge hit to the Scottish economy.

Either way, Scotland gets shafted. The case for a new Scottish independence referendum has surely never been higher since 2014.

Rjd2

I was watching this in the background, but did May discuss ejaculation their?:P

theguzman

Thargor wrote: »

Good to hear anyway:

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072129699449589760

No but we will force them into holding two second refernda on the exact same issues and lie to the Irish that everything is changed and we will also force the Irish to repay billions of unsecured German private bank bonds by turning private debt into Irish sovereign debt. Who needs enemies when you got friends like that?

There could not be a more despicable politicians in the world at the moment than Juncker, Verhofstadt and Mutti. An axis of true Evil if ever there was.

BonnieSituation

theguzman wrote: »

No but we will force them into holding two second refernda on the exact same issues and lie to the Irish that everything is changed and we will also force the Irish to repay billions of unsecured German private bank bonds by turning private debt into Irish sovereign debt. Who needs enemies when you got friends like that?

There could not be a more despicable politicians in the world at the moment than Juncker, Verhofstadt and Mutti. An axis of true Evil if ever there was.

I'm just so glad we have benevolent leaders like Farage, JRM and Raab to show us the way.

serfboard

theguzman wrote: »

No but we will force them into holding two second refernda on the exact same issues and lie to the Irish that everything is changed and we will also force the Irish to repay billions of unsecured German private bank bonds by turning private debt into Irish sovereign debt. Who needs enemies when you got friends like that?

This thread was getting boring.

Thankfully there's a bit of Irexit to liven up the place :rolleyes:

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1072190546863669248

Fann Linn

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1072190546863669248

Turning the screw. I like.

megatron989

theguzman wrote: »

No but we will force them into holding two second refernda on the exact same issues and lie to the Irish that everything is changed and we will also force the Irish to repay billions of unsecured German private bank bonds by turning private debt into Irish sovereign debt. Who needs enemies when you got friends like that?

There could not be a more despicable politicians in the world at the moment than Juncker, Verhofstadt and Mutti. An axis of true Evil if ever there was.

What are you on about lad? Absolute rubbish.
So if you don't understand something (the EU in your case) you just go ahead and make up whatever you like? Brexit is for you so.

MrMusician18

In the pantheon of political crises, where would we place this? Seems worse than the political crisis that surrounded our bailout, but not quite up there with the Greek one

Water John

Tusk has done right, cut her time. she given the full answer from the EU by Friday no reason for not going back to the HoC next week.

theguzman

It is a huge political crisis for the EU because the Franco/German empire is crumbling before their eyes and all attempts to bully and subjugate UK have failed and in words of the Rt. Hon Rev Ian Paisley there will be "No Surrender" and Arlene Foster has stood fast to that and I am sure the big guy himself would be proud of her on that. Verhofstad and Junker should realize that they will never break the Unionists in the way they destroyed the Greeks and the Southern Irish Government here.

robindch

Laois_Man wrote: »

I came to this a little late. Has anyone from the DUP spoken yet?

Going out on a limb here, but I'd imagine they said "No!".