Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

dr.fuzzenstein

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

Hello, welcome to the real world. Will Sir be checking in here for long?

serfboard

theguzman wrote: »

a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

Aaaaand we're back to the old "They need us more than we need them", last seen circa 2016.

4068ac1elhodqr

listermint wrote: »

The 17.4 million was a bunch of people tired of the malaise and given an apparent easy answer to their delusion with the government.

They are not a fixed bunch nor is there still anywhere near 17.4 million this time.

Its only folks that are willing for brexit to occur keep quoting this figure.

17,400,000 from 2016 is the only refrence point we have to look upon, unless your sitting upon a crystal ball and know the internal thinking of about 60m folks, in which case would also like to know who will the Superbowl LIII.

Please don't mention some slightly random 'new poll' that asked 1,000 random blokes in the pub, filled with shandies, what they would vote 2nd time around.

Like the numbers or not, it's only the folks who still think it was just a bad dream, (like Trump the POTUS), who are certain it didn't actually happen, nor could ever happen again.

Likely v2.0 went ahead, it wouldn't be a boolean question, but rather multi-choice, full of conditional (if/when) statements, all rich in word-play that leads to further mayhem.

listermint

theguzman wrote: »

The mainstream media and vast majority of the British political liberal elite were in favour of remaining in the EU and they basically rubbished the idea and had such total arrogance and certainty that they never expected the UK to actually leave in the first place. Nigel Farage and a host of other British Patriots had other things to say about that and the British electorate made a very well informed decision and smartly decided to leave.

David Cameron himself a staunch Europhile resigned the following day and his political gamble to appease the Euroskeptics backfired badly on him. Theresa May then doubled down by calling an Early election only to lose her Majority and put the DUP and Euroskeptics in firm control. It has all been very entertaining to watch and watching the liberal Europhiles squirm as they lost and refuse to accept it has been all the better.

When a poster uses mainstream / elite / philes in a post you know they are making an aim to descredit their own argument.

Its like barfing up the entirety of Facebook onto the internet in one go.

listermint

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

17,400,000 from 2016 is the only refrence point we have to look upon, unless your sitting upon a crystal ball and know the internal thinking of about 60m folks, in which case would also like to know who will the Superbowl LIII.

Please don't mention some slightly random 'new poll' that asked 1,000 random blokes in the pub, filled with shandies, what they would vote 2nd time around.

Like the numbers or not, it's only the folks who still think it was just a bad dream, (like Trump the POTUS), who are certain it didn't actually happen, nor could ever happen again.

Likely v2.0 went ahead, it wouldn't be a boolean question, but rather multi-choice, full of conditional (if/when) statements, all rich in word-play that leads to further mayhem.

What random poll is that yougov? Or the polls that cost nearly two million to run just once ?

Look accum I know you've a penchant for brexit so you don't offer serious discussion when you make remarks like as couple or blokes down the pub , you only make it easy to descredit you.

Don't do that.

Seth Brundle

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

In what way has the EU put a gun to the British head?
As for lost sales of German cars, what about all the lost jobs in the UK because of stupidity and arrogance?

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Theguzman will be taking a break from the forum to reconsider their posting style.

4068ac1elhodqr

listermint wrote: »

What random poll is that yougov? Or the polls that cost nearly two million to run just once ?

Look accum I know you've a penchant for brexit so you don't offer serious discussion when you make remarks like as couple or blokes down the pub , you only make it easy to descredit you.

Don't do that.

Look lefty listy, I know your a left extremist/radical, and that's fair enough.

I don't support brexit, so don't please don't offer up sheer lies.

On the otherhand, I understand/predicted how it occured (like Trump), and would also predict a messy situation if they called it again.

There would no easy guarantee of what way it would go, so don't assume with certaintly you already know the result. It would even more difficult to call than the 1st one.

And don't put a monetary price on holding any referendum, it's a democratic choice for the people not a commercial purchase to consider.

SimonTemplar

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

The EU cannot abandon its principles when negotiating with the UK. That's not putting a gun to the UK.



The EU didn't force the UK to have a referendum. The EU wasn't responsible for illegal overspend, lies and unkeepable promises of the EU. The EU wasn't responsible for the xenophobic headlines of some tabloids which turned the referendum into a single issue debate. The EU wasn't responsible for May taking the hardest possible stance when attempting to implement the referendum result. And the EU is not responsible for May refusing to acknowledge that democracy is not based on a fixed point in time by not having a second ref.


The EU is definitely not putting a gun to the UK.

listermint

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

Look lefty listy, I know your a left extremist/radical, and that's fair enough.

I don't support brexit, so don't please don't offer up sheer lies.

On the otherhand, I understand/predicted how it occured (like Trump), and would also predict a messy situation if they called it again.

There would no easy guarantee of what way it would go, so don't assume with certaintly you already know the result. It would even more difficult to call than the 1st one.

And don't put a monetary price on holding any referendum, it's a democratic choice for the people not a commercial purchase to consider.

Lefty listy.

How very schoolyard of you well don't did you think that one up in between paddy power logins

Werent you advocating irexit at one point....

I'll get plenty of miles out of that.

Democracy doesn't end after a single vote. Thought you might know that. Alas... Perhaps not

Tell me how

Conversation here is starting to mirror Arlene, JRM, Jeremy et al.

4068ac1elhodqr

listermint wrote: »

Lefty listy.

How very schoolyard of you well don't did you think that one up in between paddy power logins

Werent you advocating irexit at one point....

I'll get plenty of miles out of that.

Democracy doesn't end after a single vote. Thought you might know that. Alas... Perhaps not

Yet more lies, paranoid much? There's tablets for that.

To clarify again, neither support any Irexit, but can predict a growing appetite for it if certain conditions occurs. Prediction isn't support. It's foresight, anyone outside of the schoolyard, should be able to perceive that.

It might be cold next week, I'd rather it wasn't, but what can you do.

So you'd maybe support a yearly brexit vote, that would stop when they get the right answer that you prefer. Hmm sounds very democratic.

road_high

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Euro rapidly hurtling to 91p - at least the Northern shopping centres will profit from the chaos.

And ****e for Irish exporters! Further evidence that we need to diversify move beyond the volatility of the Uk and pound sterling and broaden our own trade horizons

road_high

So Tessie is off to Holland in the morning for more begging. How likely are the EU chiefs to give them even more concessions?

serfboard

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

So you'd maybe support a yearly brexit vote, that would stop when they get the right answer that you prefer. Hmm sounds very democratic.

Maybe you'd support one election ever - once the people speak, that's it forever and a day, no need to call any elections ever again, the people have spoken etc. etc. That also sounds very democratic

As you know well, no-one would advocate a yearly vote. But when Brexit was being voted on, no-one knew what kind of exit deal would emerge, and while you can say that the public were in favour of leaving the EU, you definitely cannot say that the public were in favour of this deal, because it wasn't on the table then, or no deal.

So, now that there is a deal, the merits of which can be debated, it is more than reasonable to ask the public for their opinion on it, so long as you don't promise them that if they turn it down, renegotiation is on the table, because it's not.

DOCARCH

road_high wrote: »

So Tessie is off to Holland in the morning for more begging. How likely are the EU chiefs to give them even more concessions?

EU will not re-open/change the withdrawal agreement.

Only 'concessions' are likely to be some text/words of comfort in relation to future trade deal (which probably will not be worth the paper they are written on!).

road_high

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

Have a little chuckle whenever I hear this little red herring. Not heard it in two years though! The “Germans” and all the rest have been pretty clear- they value the eu market more than that uk and that’s their priority. Anyhow once the uk economy has driven itself off that cliff there’ll be fcuk all disposal cash for fancy cars anyhow lol

lawred2

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

Yet more lies, paranoid much? There's tablets for that.

To clarify again, neither support any Irexit, but can predict a growing appetite for it if certain conditions occurs. Prediction isn't support. It's foresight, anyone outside of the schoolyard, should be able to perceive that.

It might be cold next week, I'd rather it wasn't, but what can you do.

So you'd maybe support a yearly brexit vote, that would stop when they get the right answer that you prefer. Hmm sounds very democratic.

lucky for us we've only had the one GE since the foundation of the state otherwise it would have been an affront to democracy

4068ac1elhodqr

lawred2 wrote: »

lucky for us we've only had the one GE since the foundation of the state otherwise it would have been an affront to democracy

And a regular GE cycle as per nearly every state on the planet, is the same thing as leaving Europe after many decades, a new Independance of sorts?

This year: 2018.
Brexit Ref: 2016
Scotish Independence Ref: 2014

In light of current conditions, can only imagine a few Scots are checking their calanders having been presented with a new dynamic, that appears to be a stalemate of sorts for them.

The question is would a 2nd Ref right now solve anything, the answer is 'who knows', there is a risk it might further complicate matters.

badtoro

Just on Scotland, how may they get another indy ref if they wish for one? Are there time limits from the last or other conditions?

Rjd2

Tell me how wrote: »

I watched a good portion of the debate in the house of commons this afternoon.

Some people not holding back at all in pointing fingers at and naming the hard Brexiteers for the role in the fiasco so far and saying the obvious that no deal will make the ERG happy.

Today was a good day for them tbf. All this chaos and delay makes a no deal more likely especially as May and Corbyn utterly incompetent.

Not a bad effort for what is ultimately a very small number of MPS.

EDIT...No deal before 1st Of April is 1/2 on BF now. :eek:

hill16bhoy

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

And a regular GE cycle as per nearly every state on the planet, is the same thing as leaving Europe after many decades, a new Independance of sorts?

This year: 2018.
Brexit Ref: 2016
Scotish Independence Ref: 2014

In light of current conditions, can only imagine a few Scots are checking their calanders having been presented with a new dynamic, that appears to be a stalemate of sorts for them.

The question is would a 2nd Ref right now solve anything, the answer is 'who knows', there is a risk it might further complicate matters.

Presumably you view the 2017 General Election as undemocratic given that it took place 2 years and 1 month after the 2015 one.

We're already 2 years and 6 months since the referendum - a referendum which you presumably also view as undemocratic given that there had already been one in 1975.

4068ac1elhodqr

badtoro wrote: »

Just on Scotland, how may they get another indy ref if they wish for one? Are there time limits from the last or other conditions?

We'll it's been 4yrs, perhaps more than enough time for many, considering their new found situation, that they as a country of sorts, really didn't want.

If we're to believe the polls (which I take little notice of, but many others swear by as gospel), then 'Scottish independence' would be better than a no-deal Brexit, say 59%.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-independence-better-than-brexit-htt8lbwvc

lawred2

Rjd2 wrote: »

Today was a good day for them tbf. All this chaos and delay makes a no deal more likely especially as May and Corbyn utterly incompetent.

Not a bad effort for what is ultimately a very small number of MPS.

EDIT...No deal before 1st Of April is 1/2 on BF now. :eek:

Fools Day is apt

4068ac1elhodqr

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Presumably you view the 2017 General Election as undemocratic given that it took place 2 years and 1 month after the 2015 one.

We're already 2 years and 6 months since the referendum - a referendum which you presumably also view as undemocratic given that there had already been one in 1975.

So a GE and referendum on EU membership are the same thing? Ooo..k.

The only country to leave the EU, after more than 40yrs, creating such upheaval and debate perhaps would give you the slightest clue as it it's significance, perchance.

Hurrache

road_high wrote: »

And ****e for Irish exporters! Further evidence that we need to diversify move beyond the volatility of the Uk and pound sterling and broaden our own trade horizons

We have.

Professor Moriarty

road_high wrote: »

So Tessie is off to Holland in the morning for more begging. How likely are the EU chiefs to give them even more concessions?

If I were representing the EU, I would take a step back and assess my position.

Firstly, the EU has painstakingly agreed to a deal and just a couple of weeks later the UK wants to change it. How will this benefit the EU? Apart from avoiding a hard Brexit, it won't benefit the EU at all. It's also obvious that the UK has far more to lose than the EU in the event of a hard Brexit.

Secondly, agreeing to change the backstop will go against Ireland's wishes and that can't be seen to happen.

Thirdly, if one detail of the deal is renegotiated it could open Pandora's box. The whole deal may then quickly unravel as other countries look for change.

Fourthly and most importantly, any concession on the backstop won't placate the Brexiteers anyway. They will simply focus on another weakness in May's deal. So there is no reason why the EU should offer to renegotiate or agree to any concessions.

devnull

Theresa May is going to do a tour of European Capitals to try and get them to change their minds.

Does she still not get the concept of what the EU is and how it is a union and not just a place where she can go from country to country to try and place pressure on the EU.

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

Today was a good day for them tbf. All this chaos and delay makes a no deal more likely especially as May and Corbyn utterly incompetent.

Not a bad effort for what is ultimately a very small number of MPS.

EDIT...No deal before 1st Of April is 1/2 on BF now. :eek:

Jesus, that's frightening. A ship of fools indeed.

An Claidheamh

theguzman wrote: »

It is a huge political crisis for the EU because the Franco/German empire is.... the Southern Irish Government here.

"Southern Irish government?"

Either a Brit pretending to be Irish, a northern loyalist pretending to be British pretending to be Irish or someone taking the p1ss/psychotic.

All done pretty badly.

Sign of the times that it's difficult to tell the difference.

Incidentally, I for one am looking forward to the subjugation of the UK by the Franco-German empire.