Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

LeinsterDub

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/survey-reveals-65-in-northern-ireland-would-now-vote-remain-and-60-think-united-ireland-more-likely-after-brexit-37609187.html


Very interesting polling data from NI . With a clear green and orange split

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The BBC isn't much more than a voice of the establishment. It doesn't know whether the next establishment will be pro or anti Brexit so it's hedging its bets.

Plus, as you have noted before, they have dumbed down their website. It's now littered with click bait OMG 'articles' on celebrities and puppies.

Wheres Me Jumper?

just when you thought the Brits couldn't look more silly, Treesa is doing the rounds of Euro capitals in a desperate bid to renegotiate the deal. has this woman no self-respect?

Seth Brundle

Akrasia wrote: »

This is in the context of a debate with one anti brexit panelist, and two pro brexit panelists.

The C4 debate? Surely three anti and one pro-Brexit panelist?

MarkHenderson

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

A Dub in Glasgo

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

Examples please

DrumSteve

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

Yeah, Sammy Wilson was bricking it this morning calling us bullies so I see your point.

lawred2

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

Such as?

Seth Brundle

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

So is Teresa May traipsing around the EU to help calm the panic amongst the different national leaders around Europe?

murphaph

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

There won't be a hard Brexit. Parliament has finally woken up. It'll be a variant of May's deal or no Brexit.

MrMusician18

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

I didn't observe any panic this morning, but I would be concerned if the Irish government were not concerned about the political chaos in London.

Chaos has a habit of spreading and it's not something we need at the moment.

VinLieger

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

I dont think I saw Leo jumping on a plane to hurriedly go begging on his knees to every EU capital

Akrasia

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I didn't observe any panic this morning, but I would be concerned if the Irish government were not concerned about the political chaos in London.

Chaos has a habit of spreading and it's not something we need at the moment.

The EU Commission have a meeting on Thursday to discuss this. I'd guess that they'll release a statement afterwards saying the Backstop is not negotiable, TM is wasting her time, and there won't be any more negotiations on any new deal before the 30th of March.

They might mention the option to cancel article 50 is still on the table.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

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FreudianSlippers

Nody wrote: »

Sorry FS but I think you give TM to much credit in the character and backbone department there. She'll make another statement like the one after the fiasco in Salzburg about hearing the people, stubborn woman etc. and some faux outrage to show the Brexiteers she means business and do the whole dance & show about the new deal she's promising she'll sort out. The reason for the delay is because of her renegotiation as she now understands "how important it is for people" or some such and it will buy her time until after the new year basically.

You couldn't have been more right. What a monumental waste of time this all is!

robinph

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So is Teresa May traipsing around the EU to help calm the panic amongst the different national leaders around Europe?

No, she's traipsing around Europe so that it looks like shes doing something. But more importantly she's then too busy to have to make an idiot of herself in any interviews where someone may ask her an awkward question such as "WTF are you going to do now?".

Shelga

Is she actually going to be allowed to delay and delay for another month?

ancapailldorcha

Shelga wrote: »

Is she actually going to be allowed to delay and delay for another month?

The A50 deadline is the end of March so her room to do that is quite limited.

Disappointing but then, we all knew that reconciling two factions which want mutually exclusive things would be a tall order for a political mastermind, never mind the Conservatives.

Imreoir2

robinph wrote: »

No, she's traipsing around Europe so that it looks like shes doing something. But more importantly she's then too busy to have to make an idiot of herself in any interviews where someone may ask her an awkward question such as "WTF are you going to do now?".

Exactly. May's premiership has been a masterclass in process over substance. It has gotten her this far and will probably carry her to a needed crisis point in January where the HoC are left will little choice other than Deal or No-Brexit.

DOCARCH

I think UK MPs (including DUP MPs) need a swift crash course on the Good Friday Agreement (an international and binding treaty). It's only then that they might 'get' the (temporary) back stop.

EKRIUQ

It has just proven that Teresa's May Plan B was to look for more time.

Her last straw is to convince other EU leaders how damaging it will be for them, if there is a No Deal scenario for the UK and then hope that the EU will lighten there stance coming from these EU leaders.

ancapailldorcha

DOCARCH wrote: »

I think UK MPs (including DUP MPs) need a swift crash course on the Good Friday Agreement (an international and binding treaty). It's only then that they might 'get' the (temporary) back stop.

I think you're misreading the situation. It's not that they don't know about the GFA. It's that they don't care. It's simply an obstacle to removed so a no deal Brexit can be delivered.

VinLieger

EKRIUQ wrote: »

It has just proven that Teresa's May Plan B was to look for more time.

Her last straw is to convince other EU leaders how damaging it will be for them, if there is a No Deal scenario for the UK and then hope that the EU will lighten there stance coming from these EU leaders.

But the EU knows how damaging its going to be. The problem is its going to be far more damaging to the UK than the EU or any member state including Ireland, so she has nothing new to tell them or bargain with

monkeybutter

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think you're misreading the situation. It's not that they don't know about the GFA. It's that they don't care. It's simply an obstacle to removed so a no deal Brexit can be delivered.

Does it specifically say there can't be a border?

Realistically what does this border need to be in the first place. Just put some customs on the main entrances, if you then try to get into the UK or out without the right paperwork, well you don't get on the boat.

Same goes on the way out of Ireland.

It's all about trade. Who wants to illegally enter the North in the first place. You still need passports/visas etc to get on the boat or plane if you look half foreign

They haven't been shyytin on about leaving since before they joined, so let them off

it's not going to be the disaster predicted, Europe wants to sell to the UK and vice versa, they still will

DOCARCH

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think you're misreading the situation. It's not that they don't know about the GFA. It's that they don't care. It's simply an obstacle to removed so a no deal Brexit can be delivered.

Certainly seems that way in the case of the DUP! No deal would suit their ideology nicely!

Shelga

There is no hope of the EU agreeing that the UK can wriggle out of the backstop, right? But there are wonderful technology solutions to the border issues anyway, so nothing to fear for the Brexiters.

Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May, as well as other party leaders, should get together and agree on a second vote, in conjunction with possibly extending article 50 in order to facilitate this. The options should be May’s deal, or remain. To put No Deal on the ballot paper gives it legitimacy, which is does not have.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Mod Note

Heed the charter folks. This isn't the place for just posting up gifs, videos, links and tweets. You need to contribute to the debate.

Thanks

Apologies. (just love that Homer clip)

there are 2 possible explanations.

1. she is extremely clever and this is part of a well-thought strategy, so she's in effect 5 moves ahead of Barnier, Juncker, Varadkar, Boris, Gove and everyone else.
2. i refer you to my "stupid like a fox" Homer clip.

murphaph

I would like to imagine that even in the unlikely event that the Commission and Council pushed for a removal of the backstop, that the parliament would reject the deal without it.

I see nothing but overwhelming support for Ireland and the peace process by the EU. I think May (given her language yesterday) has already been told that the member states are not about to throw Ireland under the bus at the last minute.

This whistle stop tour of May's is pure theatre.

briany

Shelga wrote: »

There is no hope of the EU agreeing that the UK can wriggle out of the backstop, right? But there are wonderful technology solutions to the border issues anyway, so nothing to fear for the Brexiters.

Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May, as well as other party leaders, should get together and agree on a second vote, in conjunction with possibly extending article 50 in order to facilitate this. The options should be May’s deal, or remain. To put No Deal on the ballot paper gives it legitimacy, which is does not have.

Leaving No Deal off the ballot could give it more legitimacy rather than less or none, imo, because it allows no-deal advocates to say it was the option the government never wanted you to have and they want to keep us tied to the EU, taking laws from Brussels etc. etc. etc.

It's probably not a voice that would ever truly be silenced, but the best chance the UK would have of quietening it down would be a sound defeat at the polls.

Nody

Well we got what May is supposedly asking for...

Andrea Leadsom has lifted the lid on Theresa May’s demands in her emergency talks with the EU to salvage her Brexit deal, insisting she has “plenty of options”.

The prime minister will seek an “addendum” to the withdrawal agreement, the Commons leader said - giving MPs power over whether to enter the Irish border backstop and to pull out of it.

Ms Leadsom suggested the change would be “legally binding”, despite the EU ruling out legal changes and No 10 refusing to say Ms May would make such a demand.

I mean why not tack on that EU will pay UK 350MM GBP a week to NHS while she's at it? It's as likely to go through so might as well go big after all.