Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Inquitus

All 3 options have to be on the ballot, No Deal, Remain or May's deal.

Rory28

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

but wasn't the economy supposed to tank after the vote to leave?
and as far as some Leavers are concerned it tanked/went off a cliff many years ago.

we will see what happens after March. I hope they bounce back quick but all signs point to sh1t.

joe40

Shelga wrote: »

What if the result is a three-way split? Three options doesn’t provide any clarity.

People voted for Brexit. May’s deal is the only Brexit possible. So, with this more detailed information, surely they should be able to vote for it, or Remain. Especially now they know they can revoke article 50 at any moment.

I wasn't suggesting a 3 way vote, just another stay or leave vote. Parliament then as the legislators decide whether to accept the May's deal or the inevitable no deal scenario. (assuming leave win again)

megatron989

I'd be worried that a second vote, one which offered an out, which would likely win depending on what media or poll you believe, would kick off some serious backlash.

The remain side have been unhappy thus far but they don't riot or kick off about it. If remain got a second shot and won out, even by a clear majority unlike the first vote, I'd think the Brexit supporting side would loose it's collective mind and throw an absolute wobbler. Something to make the french stop and look even.

Wheres Me Jumper?

SNIP. Please read the charter before posting again.

4068ac1elhodqr

Inquitus wrote: »

All 3 options have to be on the ballot, No Deal, Remain or May's deal.

That would suit the remainers perfectly, as the (two) leave options would be full dilution of the leave concept, therefore 48%R, 26%+%26%.

Would be surprised if there is 2nd EU Ref, but the ever shortening bookie odds (near evens today) is showing it could happen, anything could happen really, such is the mess.

JC is the fav to become next PM, and is highly likely sometime in 2019, when he gets in let the choas really start, proper style.

fash

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

but wasn't the economy supposed to tank after the vote to leave?

I don't believe any of the serious analyses suggested very serious immediate tanking- although sterling is down nearly 25% on its pre brexit high. It has lost about 3% of growth since then I believe.

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

and as far as some Leavers are concerned it tanked/went off a cliff many years ago.

It did with the GFC/austerity. Not helped by brexit related weakness since and the possible calamity of a no deal.

Inquitus

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

That would suit the remainers perfectly, as the (two) leave options would be full dilution of the leave concept, therefore 48%R, 26%+%26%.

Would be surprised if there is 2nd EU Ref, but the ever shortening bookie odds (near evens today) is showing it could happen, anything could happen really, such is the mess.

JC is the fav to become next PM, and is highly likely sometime in 2019, when he gets in let the choas really start, proper style.

It would have to feature alternative voting to work obviously, that really doesn't need to be said when proposing a poll with 3 possibilities.

murphaph

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

so if 35% vote for one option, and 65% vote for the other 2, is it right and proper that one third hold sway over two-thirds?

Like it says on virtually every Irish ballot paper "Vote in order of your preference" with 1,2,3...

Not rocket science when you have more than one option.

hill16bhoy

Inquitus wrote: »

All 3 options have to be on the ballot, No Deal, Remain or May's deal.

That would require a two stage referendum like New Zealand had recently as regards their flag.

i) a referendum between the two different forms of Brexit
ii) A run-off referendum for the winner of stage i) against Remain.

To vote again on Brexit, it has to be known what Brexit is.

Wheres Me Jumper?

fash wrote: »

I don't believe any of the serious analyses suggested very serious immediate tanking- although sterling is down nearly 25% on its pre brexit high. It has lost about 3% of growth since then I believe.

It did with the GFC/austerity. Not helped by brexit related weakness since and the possible calamity of a no deal.

the UK economy was in serious danger of overheating preBrexit vote, and sterling was overvalued.
like 10,000s of others i visited London with my family recently to avail of the adjusted sterling. the price of many UK goods has become much more competitive.

Not all gloom 'n doom you know.

Inquitus

hill16bhoy wrote: »

That would require a two stage referendum like New Zealand had recently as regards their flag.

i) a referendum between the two different forms of Brexit
ii) A run-off referendum for the winner of stage i) against Remain.

To vote again on Brexit, it has to be known what Brexit is.

Use alternative voting, the option which finishes last in the first count has its votes redistributed per the 2nd preference, if given.

Water John

UK has not used ballot 1,2,3... Thus the nuances of it which we have acquired over time would be missing. Would lead to a unsatisfactory Ref IWT.

Inquitus

Water John wrote: »

UK has not used ballot 1,2,3... Thus the nuances of it which we have acquired over time would be missing. Would lead to a unsatisfactory Ref IWT.

Agreed, but its a simple concept, shouldn't be too hard to put some adverts on TV and in the press explaining it in 30 seconds, no?

tuxy

SNP trying to push Labour to go for no confidence vote now. Labour holding off as they don't think they can win it right now.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

That would suit the remainers perfectly, as the (two) leave options would be full dilution of the leave concept, therefore 48%R, 26%+%26%.

Would be surprised if there is 2nd EU Ref, but the ever shortening bookie odds (near evens today) is showing it could happen, anything could happen really, such is the mess.

JC is the fav to become next PM, and is highly likely sometime in 2019, when he gets in let the choas really start, proper style.

if the Leavers think they are being cheated out of their decision, it'll make the Paris riots look like Tea at The Ritz

Leroy42

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

JC is the fav to become next PM, and is highly likely sometime in 2019, when he gets in let the choas really start, proper style.

I always find it ironic that the side so convinced and vocal about project fear spend so much of their time sending out warnings of chaos (Corbyn) and riots (2nd Ref)

Case in point

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

if the Leavers think they are being cheated out of their decision, it'll make the Paris riots look like Tea at The Ritz

robinph

murphaph wrote: »

Like it says on virtually every Irish ballot paper "Vote in order of your preference" with 1,2,3...

Not rocket science when you have more than one option.

I'd not be putting any number next to either of the leave options as they are both equally stupid courses of action as far as I'm concerned.

You can put 1,2,3 next to options of if person A, B or C is who you want to be elected, but not for a referendum type question. You could have a Leave/ Remain vote and then a Leave option A/ Leave option B.

J Mysterio

Inquitus wrote: »

All 3 options have to be on the ballot, No Deal, Remain or May's deal.

Absoutely not. It should be May Deal or Remain (if there is to be a second referendum).

J Mysterio

megatron989 wrote: »

I'd be worried that a second vote, one which offered an out, which would likely win depending on what media or poll you believe, would kick off some serious backlash.

The remain side have been unhappy thus far but they don't riot or kick off about it. If remain got a second shot and won out, even by a clear majority unlike the first vote, I'd think the Brexit supporting side would loose it's collective mind and throw an absolute wobbler. Something to make the french stop and look even.

Agreed. Either way though, Westminister and society more generally are badly divided. Seems they need Brexit to learn, so I hope for May's deal, as unlikely as it looks.

robinph

J Mysterio wrote: »

Absoutely not. It should be May Deal or No Deal (if there is to be a second referendum).

What about the remain option which we've just been told is now possible after two years of being lied to about it not being possible?

Wheres Me Jumper?

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

J Mysterio

tuxy wrote: »

SNP trying to push Labour to go for no confidence vote now. Labour holding off as they don't think they can win it right now.

If ever a no confidence vote could be won, surely it is now.

J Mysterio

robinph wrote: »

What about the remain option which we've just been told is now possible after two years of being lied to about it not being possible?

Sorry, I meant May Deal or Remain... editing previous post.

Leroy42

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

I don't understand. Are you claiming that either Trump or Brexit were not allowed?

Trump is currently POTUS, so your point is nonsense on that. Brexit has been tried and found to be less than promised. So again, the liberals stood by and gave them the chance.

It is not their fault that the Brexiteers are either incompetent or unable to deliver.

J Mysterio

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

Youve made this point already and received educated responses to this.

marno21

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

Is it not perfectly acceptable for there to be a potential shift from one side to the other? After all the original referendum was a 52/48 result, and since then people have actually learned what they were voting for, there was a demographic shift, and it became clear that the binary referendum of 2016 had the remain option, where remainers voted for one common result, the status quo, and leavers voted for a wide spectrum of leave scenarios which they themselves cannot even agree on as seen on the C4 debate the last day (no deal/May deal/renegotiated deal or whether CU/SM memebership is wanted).

If it was a case of we should rerun the referendum then why was the 2016 referendum allowed when it is effectively a rerun of the 1975 referendum? Was the will of the people in 1975 not enough?

tuxy

J Mysterio wrote: »

If ever a no confidence vote could be won, surely it is now.

Maybe when she returns from yet another tour of European capitals empty handed and still won't hold a vote on her deal confidence will drop even lower.

Merkel just gave her the same answer that the tweets from Brussels gave last night.

4068ac1elhodqr

Leroy42 wrote: »

I always find it ironic that the side so convinced and vocal about project fear spend so much of their time sending out warnings of chaos

Or the chaotic fear of fear itself, leading to choas, before there is even any actual chaos?

Not all choas/change is bad anyway, JC coupled with the SNP may well give the regions kind of what they wanted anyway. By the way of Scot Ind, plus a UI, both coupled back into the bussom of the EU.

England (maybe wales too), can then set off on their global endeavour as a tax haven, exporter of fine (Indian) tea, cakes and souveniers of red buses etc. All they would have to worry about, is topping up Hadrians wall.

Rory28

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

I was watching a few James O'Brien clips on youtube. One of his callers made this point and James had a great answer. Is this what people voted for? Did the people who voted to leave the EU but stay in the single market vote for this? Did the people who voted to become like the Swiss or the Norwegians etc etc.

A second ref is the only decent thing to do to clear this mess up.