Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

LeinsterDub

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Like painting the Golden Gate Bridge. When you get to the end of the painting it's time to start again. When you've erected the cameras you'll be going back to repair the cameras and so it will begin.

theguzman

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Enourmous, what would probably happen is block the lesser roads and channel traffic via the main arteries.

ilovesmybrick

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Simple answer? A sh*tshow. The border is massively porous (helped by integration funds that were a balm to decades long wounds), it has more crossings than the eastern borders of the EU, and it would create absolute havoc. Neither the UK nor Ireland have had any need for the customs, policing, or infrastructural requirements for twenty years, so the training and hiring alone would be a monumental task. And that's just the practicalities. The social and political ramifications are monumental.

Infini

Inquitus wrote: »

Rabidly partisan idiots, nothing you or I can say or do will ever change their mind. When the UK crashes and burns they'll be telling everyone the whole failed Brexit project just needs more time.

The thing with those kinds of people is you cannot reason with them you must hammer the message into them that they are wrong plain and simple and cut off their moronic warbling by constantly hitting them with fact and that if they cannot accept this there is consequences. Consequences arent punishment theyre what happens when you refuse to analyse and be pragmatic and are a result of their arrogance.

Infini

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Simple answer? A sh*tshow. The border is massively porous (helped by integration funds that were a balm to decades long wounds), it has more crossings than the eastern borders of the EU, and it would create absolute havoc. Neither the UK nor Ireland have had any need for the customs, policing, or infrastructural requirements for twenty years, so the training and hiring alone would be a monumental task. And that's just the practicalities. The social and political ramifications are monumental.

I would say that it would simply an unworkable mess and that a UI will become a near certainty over this likely a border poll would come about out of sheer necessity. The diehard unionist would probably be a waste of time to deal with theyd be as bad as the brexiteers in their refusal to accept reality they helped create so likely the main focus will be on convincing the regular people of both the advantages both representively and economically while hammering the failed politics and policies of westminster and the dup in causing this.

DOCARCH

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

....it has more crossings than the eastern borders of the EU....

And more than between USA and Canada.

As above, a lot of crossings would end up being closed (again) and other crossings would have to be monitored (physically or remotely/electronically).

One thing that has puzzled me for a long time about the Brexiteers, and their insistence that 'they' would not put in place a hard border, is immigration? What's to stop EU citizens (....the ones the Brexiteers don't seem to want....) travelling into Ireland (freely, as EU citizens), then travelling across the non-hard border and straight into the UK?

robinph

I wish they would stop letting brexiteers away with saying things like "France or Germany wouldn't accept the backstop so why should the UK have to". Ian Duncan Smith was the one repeating that line today on the news.

France or Germany are not in a situation where one region of their country is tied through non EU treaties to another country which isn't leaving. They know this and we know it, but the media keep repeating the lies for them as if it is a valid statement and so confusing the UK population who are not aware of it.

Article 50 needs a UK/ Ireland specific clause to say that one can only leave with the other as they are tied together through other history and until they separate themselves from each other fully (NI getting spun off) they will be considered one entity for article 50.

ilovesmybrick

DOCARCH wrote: »

And more than between USA and Canada.

As above, a lot of crossings would end up being closed (again) and other crossings would have to be monitored (physically or remotely/electronically).

One thing that has puzzled me for a long time about the Brexiteers, and their insistence that 'they' would not put in place a hard border, is immigration? What's to stop EU citizens (....the ones the Brexiteers don't seem to want....) travelling into Ireland (freely, as EU citizens), then travelling across the non-hard border and straight into the UK?

Simple question is how many of them ever saw the border in the 90's? I did. Who would ever do anything to bring that back.

Kermit.de.frog

I think Varadkar should refrain from suggesting what the UK should do re: Article 50.

It does no good and only leads to resentment and anger across the water.

We wouldn't like foreign prime ministers speaking in public about what our policy positions should be.

4068ac1elhodqr

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Agree with others, messy, very messy.

The old concept of Bandit country wouldn't just relate to a few sqkm where folks get red diesel, it would be large swathes across several counties.

The entire mass of new cameras would have their CCD sensors wiped out by a couple of lads in a '92 twincam, before the batteries in their green laser pointer even started to run dry. Ebay would have an oversupply of optic components.

Drones would drop weekly butter and lotto tickets across, then the new EU army themselves would show up speaking asking who left all ze concrete pillars in the middle of ze road. Irish would be dropped in schools, in favour of German to decipher what's going on.

With Scotland leaving, all they would have to do is lace Had's wall with barbed wire, half of the 95miles there is National Park land, just the M6 and few A-roads on the other East side.

listermint

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think Varadkar should refrain from suggesting what the UK should do re: Article 50.

It does no good and only leads to resentment and anger across the water.

We wouldn't like foreign prime ministers speaking in public about what our policy positions should be.

He can say what he likes

We have reached the Nexus.

Akrasia

DOCARCH wrote: »

And more than between USA and Canada.

As above, a lot of crossings would end up being closed (again) and other crossings would have to be monitored (physically or remotely/electronically).

One thing that has puzzled me for a long time about the Brexiteers, and their insistence that 'they' would not put in place a hard border, is immigration? What's to stop EU citizens (....the ones the Brexiteers don't seem to want....) travelling into Ireland (freely, as EU citizens), then travelling across the non-hard border and straight into the UK?

Its nuts. They want brexit so they can 'take control of their borders' and their solution to the backstop is to have a completely un patrolled border with the EU

DOCARCH

Akrasia wrote: »

They want brexit so they can 'take control of their borders' and their solution to the backstop is to have a completely un patrolled border with the EU

Exactly....

prawnsambo

Akrasia wrote: »

Its nuts. They want brexit so they can 'take control of their borders' and their solution to the backstop is to have a completely un patrolled border with the EU

Well they'd have had that anyway with the CTA.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1072550065380708357

Just a note of caution here - remember what Bertie said - 'don't let it come down to a final summit'., the risk being Ireland might be leaned by other EU countries.

Inquitus

3/1 May doesn't last the next 20 days as PM
6/5 There is a 2nd referendum
33/1 May's deal to pass a vote in the Commons
5/1 Johnson next Prime Minister*

* the list for this one is particularly shocking in its content.

listermint

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1072550065380708357

Just a note of caution here - remember what Bertie said - 'don't let it come down to a final summit'., the risk being Ireland might be leaned by other EU countries.

Ireland won't be leaned on.

That has been reiterated several times today.

Why people persist in this nonsense is beyond me

Folkstonian

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

Agree with others, messy, very messy.

The old concept of Bandit country wouldn't just relate to a few sqkm where folks get red diesel, it would be large swathes across several counties.

The entire mass of new cameras would have their CCD sensors wiped out by a couple of lads in a '92 twincam, before the batteries in their green laser pointer even started to run dry. Ebay would have an oversupply of optic components.

Drones would drop weekly butter and lotto tickets across, then the new EU army themselves would show up speaking asking who left all ze concrete pillars in the middle of ze road. Irish would be dropped in schools, in favour of German to decipher what's going on.

With Scotland leaving, all they would have to do is lace Had's wall with barbed wire, half of the 95miles there is National Park land, just the M6 and few A-roads on the other East side.

Whilst it would mean ceding big chunks of Northumberland and Cumbria (as well as lots of geordies) to the independent republic of sturgeonia, it’s an otherwise flawless plan!

4068ac1elhodqr

Inquitus wrote: »

* the list for this one is particularly shocking in its content.

Their next PM market sure is wide open, JC 4/1 the most likely during 2019. But could be anyone of three dozen with a decent chance.

In the US you know what your getting, more Donald (at evens), unless Beto o'Rourke is favoured by the Dem, over the usual old hat.

4068ac1elhodqr

Folkstonian wrote: »

Whilst it would mean ceding big chunks of Northumberland and Cumbria (as well as lots of geordies) to the independent republic of sturgeonia, it’s an otherwise flawless plan!

If they ship up 4yrs worth of the glorious buckfast brew for free, before topping up the wall, peace shall forever prevail.

Geordonia has a ring to it also, perhaps the most isolated urban area of 2.6m they have. While Newcastle voted to remain, the surrounds did not.

Water John

People might need to learn the history of Strasbourg and how it has moved back and forth between France and Germany. It's the reason the French insist of the EU Parliament debunk there for a week each month.
Border issues have resonance in many EU countries.

BTW Brady 1922 Committee has asked to meet TM tomorrow??? 48.

fash

robinph wrote: »

I wish they would stop letting brexiteers away with saying things like "France or Germany wouldn't accept the backstop so why should the UK have to". Ian Duncan Smith was the one repeating that line today on the news.

France or Germany are not in a situation where one region of their country is tied through non EU treaties to another country which isn't leaving. They know this and we know it, but the media keep repeating the lies for them as if it is a valid statement and so confusing the UK population who are not aware of it.

Actually both Germany and Italy have enclaves in backstop-style relationships with Switzerland (I.e . they are within the Swiss customs Union) - if it's good enough for the Germans and Italians, why is it not good enough for the UK?

fash

listermint wrote: »

Ireland won't be leaned on.

That has been reiterated several times today.

Why people persist in this nonsense is beyond me

Long term, it would be as damaging to the EU to lean on Ireland as it would have been to allow the UK to split the 4 freedoms.

Hurrache

Water John wrote: »

BTW Brady 1922 Committee has asked to meet TM tomorrow??? 48.

There were rumours earlier today that they were about to meet the number but reporters, and MPs, discounted it probably because it's been expected numerous times already.

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

There were rumours earlier today that they were about to meet the number but reporters, and MPs, discounted it probably because it's been expected numerous times already.

Lot of journalists tweeting just right now that 48 has been reached.

DOCARCH

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Lot of journalists tweeting just right now that 48 has been reached.

Jaysus! Chaos is bad enough without more chaos!

Hurrache

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Lot of journalists tweeting just right now that 48 has been reached.

Seems to be the case. One person suggested she'll be applying for asylum when she lands in Dublin tomorrow.

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

Seems to be the case. One person suggested she'll be applying for asylum when she lands in Dublin tomorrow.

Next time she pops over she'll need a visa.

Professor Moriarty

DOCARCH wrote: »

Jaysus! Chaos is bad enough without more chaos!

It'll be fine. Boris will take over and sort everything out.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/SpiegelPeter/status/1072597290332930049

Can she survive?