Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Hurrache

Reuters saying that if it does come to a contest that Mogg said he won't run. What's the English equivalent to hurler on the ditch?

tuxy

Hurrache wrote: »

Reuters saying that if it does come to a contest that Mogg said he won't run. What's the English equivalent to hurler on the ditch?

Yes he said a few times he wants Johnson, Rabb or Davis as PM.
He's hardly going to risk his own political career.

Leroy42

So if, as expected, she wins tonight what then?

Surely the likes of JRM, Johnson etc must accept the plan she has delivered? What possible reason could they have for not supporting it whilst staying in the Tory party?

And doesn't this, her winning, simply mean the EU can simply (not that it was ever likely to be different) stick to the current WA as she has effectively been given the go ahead on it.

Tell me how

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is the part where I have no sympathy for TM, which many people in the media and other areas seem to have.

She has either outright lied or hidden the truth throughout the whole process.

She has lied to the DUP, the ERG, Davis said he lied to her, Raab claims she lied to him. Yet we are supposed to believe that throughout all this this is working on the best interests of the country?

She has consistently mislead the EU, missing numerous deadlines and saying one thing to them before saying different at home.

She has never once, until she had the deal, made the fact that the UK would need to make compromises to get a deal. Now she is saying that a backstop is totally necessary, only a few weeks ago she was proclaiming that no PM would ever agree to it!

The UK needed politicians that would tell the truth, hard as it was to hear. We are leaving and these are the costs. But still they are making it out as if there is no costs.

I wouldn't trust the radio of any of those 3 entities when it comes to them saying that May lied to them.

Leroy42

tuxy wrote: »

Yes he said a few times he wants Johnson, Rabb or Davis as PM.
He's hardly going to risk his own political career.

In any other time or sphere, his career, as anything other than a nobody backbencher, would effectively be over should TM win tonight.

judeboy101

Hurrache wrote: »

Reuters saying that if it does come to a contest that Mogg said he won't run. What's the English equivalent to hurler on the ditch?

He knows the law, no Catholics can be head of state or pm as they can't perform all the duties entailed.

Hurrache

Enzokk wrote: »

This seems important in light of the fact that she said she had a legally binding backstop solution,

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072908243154931712

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072909377601003521

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072911521024495618

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072914336602038272

And despite all this there's still Tory's on Sky News saying if they had a change in PM they could push EU to the deadline and the EU then will have to give them a new agreement.

Professor Moriarty

judeboy101 wrote: »

He knows the law, no Catholics can be head of state or pm as they can't perform all the duties entailed.

They can be PM but not monarch. Anyway, if Jacob becomes PM it will be time to leave the planet.

Tell me how

Hurrache wrote: »

And despite all this there's still Tory's on Sky News saying if they had a change in PM they could push EU to the deadline and the EU then will have to give them a new agreement.

It beggars belief. Two ladies were on a few minutes ago and saying that the EU always play this game of brinksmanship so they still think they might see some movement from them in the near future and that if there is some it will be in the area of the backstop.

devnull

Honestly some of this stuff makes me laugh, I've been watching a few regional programs in the UK and some of the tosh that local politicians are coming out with is ridiculous.

Essentially what I'm hearing is the following on Tory called votes:
- TM was right to call another election two years after the last one because people were trying to frustrate Brexit and the public mood had changed and so their need to be a vote.
- Tory MPs were right to call a leadership challenge because the MP mood had changed since the last one over two years ago and therefore there needed to be change.

In relation to mandates I'm hearing the following
- Even if TM wins by 5% or so, this is not enough of a mandate and cannot be taken as a definitive decision by her fellow peers, so therefore she should go anyway.
- There should not be another referendum because the people have decisively voted to leave the United Kingdom and there is no valid reason to do so.

So basically what they're saying is
- That if they're not happy with the parliamentary arithmetic they should be allowed to hold another vote, that they believe they should win. And if they're not happy with the leader they should also have another vote, since they might win that. But there should not be another vote on Brexit, you know, because they might lose that.
- If they win a vote by the odd percent here and there that must absolutely be binding and is a clear mandate, but if they lose a vote by a few percent, then the other person has still lost and they have still won as it's not a clear mandate.

The whole thing is laughable, they're such a complete bunch of hypocrites.

Leroy42

Tell me how wrote: »

It beggars belief. Two ladies were on a few minutes ago and saying that the EU always play this game of brinksmanship so they still think they might see some movement from them in the near future and that if there is some it will be in the area of the backstop.

And as usual I assume the presenter simply let them rattle on and not ask why we have such a negative attitude to the EU when they are, supposedly, easily manipulated?

Water John

Nigel Dodds is saying TM isn't telling the truth when she tells Tory MPs that progress was made in talks with the DUP today. She just lies.
She should be gone but I suspect a lot of MPs are afraid who might replace her. Really pathetic reason TBH.

bilston

Sky reckons at least 184 Tory MPs backing Theresa May. That's 133 accounted for. At least 48 of those won't be voting for her.

She will get the 159, but realistically what does she really need to carry on? I'd say anything less than 215 and she has to be in serious trouble, that would mean 100 MPs don't support her. Her saving grace is there isn't an obvious replacement.

Tell me how

Leroy42 wrote: »

And as usual I assume the presenter simply let them rattle on and not ask why we have such a negative attitude to the EU when they are, supposedly, easily manipulated?

Kay Burley was on earlier and if the guest didn't sound pro-Brexit enough, she interjected to ensure that the will of the people wasn't forgotten.

Dyr

Enzokk wrote: »

This seems important in light of the fact that she said she had a legally binding backstop solution,

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072908243154931712

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072909377601003521

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072911521024495618

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072914336602038272

Find it hard to believe that anything a buzzfeed journalist tweets is important tbh

Water John

If 100+ vote against her, Corbyn can then table his no confidence motion. He can tell these that TM would be gone if they support the motion as she has said she will stand down.

devnull

bilston wrote: »

Sky reckons at least 184 Tory MPs backing Theresa May. That's 133 accounted for. At least 48 of those won't be voting for her.

She will get the 159, but realistically what does she really need to carry on? I'd say anything less than 215 and she has to be in serious trouble, that would mean 100 MPs don't support her. Her saving grace is there isn't an obvious replacement.

I can't see it being as high as that - some I'd say are lying about support to look after their own interests.

Tell me how

Micheal Martin hitting the nail on the head on 20 seconds in this clip.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1072921549718605827

Fann Linn

Tell me how wrote: »

Micheal Martin hitting the nail on the head on 20 seconds in this clip.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1072921549718605827

Martin looking after his own head and nobody else.

bilston

devnull wrote: »

I can't see it being as high as that - some I'd say are lying about support to look after their own interests.

Quite possibly.

bilston

I wonder what Brexiteers will say if it's tight and for example 52% of MPs support the PM and 48% oppose her...?

Tell me how

Fann Linn wrote: »

Martin looking after his own head and nobody else.

I actually think he is at least damaging if not outright sacrificing his own Taoiseach aspirations in supporting the C&S over the period which they have done.

Still, I'm personally glad we have a collective government who recognizes the need for a steady ship at the moment.

rockatansky

Leroy42 wrote: »

She has lied to the DUP,

And for this I wholeheartedly applaud her. She no doubt recognises the DUP for what they really are.

briany

bilston wrote: »

I wonder what Brexiteers will say if it's tight and for example 52% of MPs support the PM and 48% oppose her...?

Something hypocritical, no doubt.

hill16bhoy

Could May's apparent grovelling behind closed doors in order to stay in power be an indication that the vote may not be the plain sailing expected?

Here's something to keep in mind.

https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1072853959784755201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1072853959784755201&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2018%2Fdec%2F12%2Ftory-mps-trigger-vote-of-no-confidence-in-may-amid-brexit-uncertainty-politics-live

devnull

bilston wrote: »

I wonder what Brexiteers will say if it's tight and for example 52% of MPs support the PM and 48% oppose her...?

They will say it's not a mandate, despite saying it is for Brexit.

They've called for another election, because they didn't like the result of the last one and called for another leadership election, as they don't like the person they voted in last time and say that it's not undemocratic.

But if someone asks for another referendum it's not allowed because it betrays any kind of democracy by asking people the same question again, which is laughable really, but shows you what you're dealing with.

You see this with the way they talk about the EU, and talk about other deals they have made even though they're just proposals. It's all staggering arrogance from people who are used to getting their own way.

Look at it from outside the Brexit bubble, you've got a bunch of very very rich people who have spent their whole life getting their own way due to their wealth and have become arrogant self obsessed Tories. If they want something they get it, if someone else wants something similar, they don't.

The likes of Jacob Rees Mogg wants to cut taxes for the rich whilst increasing them for a poor with a single tax band - he couldn't give a damn about your average man on the street, integrity, compassion and caring for the man down the street and empathy are things he'll never have and it's the likes of him that symbolise everything I hate about the Tory party. He doesn't care about rules, ethics or honesty or consistency. He just cares about himself.

Water John

Historian on Sky thinks it might be close. Whilst Sky have run the list of who has said they will support her, many experts, incl a former whip telling them that MPs are great liars.

devnull

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Something to keep in mind.

Could May's apparent grovelling behind closed doors in order to stay in power be an indication that the vote may not be the plain sailing expected?

https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1072853959784755201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1072853959784755201&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2018%2Fdec%2F12%2Ftory-mps-trigger-vote-of-no-confidence-in-may-amid-brexit-uncertainty-politics-live

I said that earlier - I wouldn't put anything past these tories.

They're a bunch of back-stabbing, disloyal, unethical and hypocritical rich boys and girls. They'll do anything to look after themselves, honesty is not one of their strong points and if they need to lie about who their supporting to save their career they'll do that.

Kermit.de.frog

She'll win comfortably in my opinion.

There is no other credible way forward, no credible potential leadership options.

When push comes to shove pragmatism wins out...

seamus

Tell me how wrote: »

I actually think he is at least damaging if not outright sacrificing his own Taoiseach aspirations in supporting the C&S over the period which they have done.

Still, I'm personally glad we have a collective government who recognizes the need for a steady ship at the moment.

This is a bit like Kevin Sheedy's goal against the English.

Who would have thought that the Dáil would be the mature parliament, putting the country ahead of party politics, while the UK parliament walks around with it's pants around it's ankles, smelling of booze and vomit all over its shirt?

This should be the last nail coffin for any lingering inferiority complex we have regarding the British.