Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Rhineshark

Scoondal wrote: »

If there is a "no deal Brexit" the nordies will all suddenly like the Republic for their holiday flights.
They're British when it suits them and Irish when it suits them..

That is a profound misunderstanding of NI. And since when did travelling through another country (getting a flight from Dublin) become identifying as a citizen of it? Although I have no doubt relatively more Irish (or neutral/indifferent) NIers take the option, not least since they tend to be nearer the border.

An Claidheamh

Sort of related to the I T article ye were talking about

This lady giving out that British will not be treated as EU citizens........ when they are no longer.... EU citizens - and then trying to blame/start a fight with France.

Ihttps://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-macron-france-third-citizens-immigration-uk-end-of-love-affair-a8592181.html?amp





"After hearing how France wants to treat us after Brexit, I think it might be the end of my love affair with the country
I voted Remain, but this snotty treatment from the country on the other side of the Channel has got my blood boiling. Enough is enough!


If we do end up treated as “third country” citizens, as that draft law suggests, then we’ll go to the back of the queue on every score. Traffic will be gridlocked with the M20 turned into a giant lorry park and even our pets could be denied free travel, submitted to customs checks and reams of documentation.


For centuries, the French have not only been our closest neighbours, but also our bitter rivals. British membership of the EU seemed to signal a cosier relationship – but now it seems we are to be cast aside, like a lover who no longer appeals, punished severely for our stroppy attitude.

The legislation to downgrade our status could mean UK citizens in France lose their rights to certain jobs and would have to apply for “carte de sejour” permits to remain in the country, with limited access to healthcare and welfare.

The French seem determined to make our lives as unpleasant as possible"



Again, despite the feigned victimhood and belligerence - Britain VOTED to be a third country.

And appear happy to treat the Polish, etc worse than they claim the French are treating them.

I know it may supposed to be lighthearted, but seems more like rabble rousing against Johnny Foreigner - and the UK Indo is one of the few non-nationalist media outlets in Britain.

Same nonsense with us, claim they were our friends and now are the victims.

I suppose the description would be histrionic.

Scoondal

Spook_ie wrote: »

Interesting how they suddenly become Nordies when it suits instead of part of the GFA

Perhaps the island of Ireland still has a longer way to travel than some people like to think

I will explain my opinions :
I am a citizen of Republic of Ireland. And I live here, work here and pay my taxes here.
Nordies are entitled to claim citiizenship of "Ireland" but don't live here nor pay their taxes here. I wish I was one of them with two countries falling backwards to claim their allegiance, while trading off the different benefits of one country against the other.

FrancieBrady

Scoondal wrote: »

I will explain my opinions :
I am a citizen of Republic of Ireland. And I live here, work here and pay my taxes here.
Nordies are entitled to claim citiizenship of "Ireland" but don't live here nor pay their taxes here. I wish I was one of them with two countries falling backwards to claim their allegiance, while trading off the different benefits of one country against the other.

You want to be a burden? Honest opinion anyhow.

Scoondal

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Sort of related to the I T article ye were talking about

This lady giving out that British will not be treated as EU citizens........ when they are no longer.... EU citizens - and then trying to blame/start a fight with France.

Ihttps://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-macron-france-third-citizens-immigration-uk-end-of-love-affair-a8592181.html?amp





"After hearing how France wants to treat us after Brexit, I think it might be the end of my love affair with the country
I voted Remain, but this snotty treatment from the country on the other side of the Channel has got my blood boiling. Enough is enough!


If we do end up treated as “third country” citizens, as that draft law suggests, then we’ll go to the back of the queue on every score. Traffic will be gridlocked with the M20 turned into a giant lorry park and even our pets could be denied free travel, submitted to customs checks and reams of documentation.


For centuries, the French have not only been our closest neighbours, but also our bitter rivals. British membership of the EU seemed to signal a cosier relationship – but now it seems we are to be cast aside, like a lover who no longer appeals, punished severely for our stroppy attitude.

The legislation to downgrade our status could mean UK citizens in France lose their rights to certain jobs and would have to apply for “carte de sejour” permits to remain in the country, with limited access to healthcare and welfare.

The French seem determined to make our lives as unpleasant as possible"



Again, despite the feigned victimhood and belligerence - Britain Voted to be a third country.

And appear happy to treat the Polish, etc worse than they claim the French are treating them.

Oh how awful.
But ye all voted for it. Five months to go. I'll be glad to see the end of UK influence in Europe and in EU.

Scoondal

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Sort of related to the I T article ye were talking about

This lady giving out that British will not be treated as EU citizens........ when they

Ihttps://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-macron-are no longer.... EU citizens - and then trying to blame/start a fight with France.france-third-citizens-immigration-uk-end-of-love-affair-a8592181.html%3famp





"After hearing how France wants to treat us after Brexit, I think it might be the end of my love affair with the country
I voted Remain, but this snotty treatment from the country on the other side of the Channel has got my blood boiling. Enough is enough!


If we do end up treated as “third country” citizens, as that draft law suggests, then we’ll go to the back of the queue on every score. Traffic will be gridlocked with the M20 turned into a giant lorry park and even our pets could be denied free travel, submitted to customs checks and reams of documentation.


For centuries, the French have not only been our closest neighbours, but also our bitter rivals. British membership of the EU seemed to signal a cosier relationship – but now it seems we are to be cast aside, like a lover who no longer appeals, punished severely for our stroppy attitude.

The legislation to downgrade our status could mean UK citizens in France lose their rights to certain jobs and would have to apply for “carte de sejour” permits to remain in the country, with limited access to healthcare and welfare.

The French seem determined to make our lives as unpleasant as possible"



Again, despite the feigned victimhood and belligerence - Britain VOTED to be a third country.

And appear happy to treat the Polish, etc worse than they claim the French are treating them.

I know it may supposed to be lighthearted, but seems more like rabble rousing against Johnny Foreigner - and the UK Indo is one of the few non-nationalist media outlets in Britain.

Same nonsense with us, claim they were our friends and now are the victims.

I suppose the description would be histrionic.

http://https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2018/10/11/brexit-islands-asked-if-france-would-be-able-to-act-for-them/
How about this ? Pragmatic ?

Scoondal

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2018/10/11/brexit-islands-asked-if-france-would-be-able-to-act-for-them/
The Channel Island governments are outside EU but within EEA. It seems (I am open to correction) that these independant regions may have to give up their customs allignment even though they were not allowed to vote on the UK exiting EU.
If I was them I'd be annoyed.

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

Oh how awful.
But ye all voted for it. Five months to go. I'll be glad to see the end of UK influence in Europe and in EU.

Actually missus, the Brexit withdrawal has been agreed. It is just us Irish who are being just horrid.

J Mysterio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is the Conservative party really so detached from reality that it needs to hit a brick wall before it sees what a calamitous state it's in? I know that the electoral system gives it a highly privileged position but even with that, it's plain to see that in its current state it'll crash either at the next election or at the one after. It's so far removed from the electorate that it has barely any members. There are would be modernisers like Ruth Davidson but she's recently said she doesn't want to be leader. Anyone centrist isn't going to try anything until the right wing of the party gets a bloody nose.

In the meantime, the Conservatives have shattered their covenant with the British public. They are party of McJobs, obscene house prices, skyrocketing economic inequality and protecting privilege. Their image of being the party that would protect the economy that provided you with your home, your children with schools and your ill with hospitals. All of this has been replaced with Brexit, uncertainty and a very ugly sort of nationalism that elements of the party have helped to grow and unleash.

There is nobody I can see who can both replace May and win back the electorate's faith and trust. I suspect that the electoral pendulum will swing to Jeremy Corbyn before it settles back into the centre for a while. I can't imagine him mismanaging the country as badly as May is at the moment. He might even build a few houses.

I agree with all of your points (RE Tories) untill the mention of Corbyn. This guy has let the country down badly by failing to provide a coherent opposition to the disaster that is this government. He really should be presiding over a village green conservation society rather then a 'modern' political party in the UK.

J Mysterio

Tony Connelly to be on Marr

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1053332592781594624

Scoondal

J Mysterio wrote: »

Tony Connelly to be on Marr

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1053332592781594624

Fantastic ... facts and no b s is his style. They won't know what to say. Can't wait.

Scoondal

The BBC wil be unable to deal with facts as Tony Connelly will present. No opinions just facts. They'll be in uproar because of facts.

Spook_ie

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Sort of related to the I T article ye were talking about

This lady giving out that British will not be treated as EU citizens........ when they are no longer.... EU citizens - and then trying to blame/start a fight with France.

Ihttps://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-macron-france-third-citizens-immigration-uk-end-of-love-affair-a8592181.html?amp





"After hearing how France wants to treat us after Brexit, I think it might be the end of my love affair with the country
I voted Remain, but this snotty treatment from the country on the other side of the Channel has got my blood boiling. Enough is enough!


If we do end up treated as “third country” citizens, as that draft law suggests, then we’ll go to the back of the queue on every score. Traffic will be gridlocked with the M20 turned into a giant lorry park and even our pets could be denied free travel, submitted to customs checks and reams of documentation.


For centuries, the French have not only been our closest neighbours, but also our bitter rivals. British membership of the EU seemed to signal a cosier relationship – but now it seems we are to be cast aside, like a lover who no longer appeals, punished severely for our stroppy attitude.

The legislation to downgrade our status could mean UK citizens in France lose their rights to certain jobs and would have to apply for “carte de sejour” permits to remain in the country, with limited access to healthcare and welfare.

The French seem determined to make our lives as unpleasant as possible"



Again, despite the feigned victimhood and belligerence - Britain VOTED to be a third country.

And appear happy to treat the Polish, etc worse than they claim the French are treating them.

I know it may supposed to be lighthearted, but seems more like rabble rousing against Johnny Foreigner - and the UK Indo is one of the few non-nationalist media outlets in Britain.

Same nonsense with us, claim they were our friends and now are the victims.

I suppose the description would be histrionic.

However, it would likely be truthful that there has been less or zero mention of what rights any UK workers in the EU will have compared to the furore over EU citizens in the UK

Scoondal

Spook_ie wrote: »

However, it would likely be truthful that there has been less or zero mention of what rights any UK workers in the EU will have compared to the furore over EU citizens in the UK

That's democracy.
Out is out. So I'd say UK workers working in EU should have to apply for a temporary work permit. UK has voted on this, do you not respect the democratic wish of UK citizens ?

interlocked

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/19/uk-brexit-negotiators-november-summit-eu-leaders-theresa-may

"Government insiders remain hopeful they can persuade EU leaders to give Barnier the green light to drop the “backstop to the backstop” – the insistence that the EU’s proposal for avoiding a hard border in Ireland must be included in the legally binding withdrawal agreement."

Fantasy politics again, there's a hard reality coming and it's coming straight between the eyes.

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

That's democracy.
Out is out. So I'd say UK workers working in EU should have to apply for a temporary work permit. UK has voted on this, do you not respect the democratic wish of UK citizens ?

In this country, EU citizens will have more workers rights than non-EU (UK idiots) workers from 29 March 2019 : Fact.
Go back to your independant country if you have a problem with our law.

Scoondal

If UK citizens voted for border control, Ireland or EU cannot prevent that. They want borders, not Ireland and not EU. Give it to them. And then those people should just go away and stop bothering us.

Rhineshark

Scoondal wrote: »

If UK citizens voted for border control, Ireland or EU cannot prevent that. They want borders, not Ireland and not EU. Give it to them. And then those people should just go away and stop bothering us.

Query, and obviously you don't need to be too specific, but do you live anywhere near the border?

If you turn out to be from Kerry and as unaffected by a hard border as it's possible to be in RoI, that doesn't preclude you from having an opinion or anything, not where I was going. Just the further people live from it, the less they seem to reckon it's an issue. Not seen it so much in RoI, but definitely on the British/NI side so I'm interested if there may be geographical distinction in RoI too.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Approx 180 destinations out of Dublin, 50 out of Belfast.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Dunno seems plenty of choice unless you want to go on a direct US flight to Atlanta etc.
...

Rhineshark

Some actual good news for beleaguered Britain:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-gibraltar/spain-says-agreement-reached-on-gibraltar-status-in-brexit-negotiations-idUSKCN1MS2DH

Admittedly, nothing signed yet so it's not over yet and there is always the possibility that a wild Tory will muck it up, but still, promising.

They were very lucky that Brexit talks outlasted Rajoy though.

breatheme

Really? I've heard nothing about it (yet) over here (Madrid). I'll keep an eye out for it in the Spanish news though.

I'm about to board a flight to London (Stanstead) and I arrive at 12:05. I wonder if I will have time to go to the Remain event today.

ancapailldorcha

breatheme wrote: »

Really? I've heard nothing about it (yet) over here (Madrid). I'll keep an eye out for it in the Spanish news though.

I'm about to board a flight to London (Stanstead) and I arrive at 12:05. I wonder if I will have time to go to the Remain event today.

Starts at Park Lane at 12 but I'd say it'd be a very slow march. Ends with speeches from various figures including Gina Miller, Sadiq Khan and Deborah Meaden.

mickoneill31

I was thinking about the backstop issues that the UK has now.

How's this as a proposal.

Backstop is time limited for 5 years.
At 5 years there is a border poll asking NI if they want to join Ireland or stay as they are (simultaneous poll in Ireland obviously).

If NI joins Ireland then the UK has to support NI at current rates for 5 years (a transition period).
After 5 years the EU helps out Ireland for another 5.

If NI doesn't join Ireland then there's a border but they'll have agreed to it in the referendum.

I'm not a republican. I don't really care much about NI. But with support from the UK and EU we could just move this along and put it behind us one way or the other.

It gives NI a great advantage. If the UK is doing great after Brexit then they can stay with them. If they're not they can abandon ship.

So what great bit glaring holes are there in this idea
I'm sure there are plenty.

The DUP will probably say no. But it's democracy, will of the people and all of that good stuff that the guys in the UK shout about these days.

FrancieBrady

mickoneill31 wrote: »

I was thinking about the backstop issues that the UK has now.

How's this as a proposal.

Backstop is time limited for 5 years.
At 5 years there is a border poll asking NI if they want to join Ireland or stay as they are (simultaneous poll in Ireland obviously).

If NI joins Ireland then the UK has to support NI at current rates for 5 years (a transition period).
After 5 years the EU helps out Ireland for another 5.

If NI doesn't join Ireland then there's a border but they'll have agreed to it in the referendum.

I'm not a republican. I don't really care much about NI. But with support from the UK and EU we could just move this along and put it behind us one way or the other.

It gives NI a great advantage. If the UK is doing great after Brexit then they can stay with them. If they're not they can abandon ship.

So what great bit glaring holes are there in this idea
I'm sure there are plenty.

The DUP will probably say no. But it's democracy, will of the people and all of that good stuff that the guys in the UK shout about these days.

A 'border'. It destroyed the island in the past, would do in the present and in the future.

mickoneill31

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A 'border'. It destroyed the island in the past, would do in the present and in the future.

Well a border is likely with the way things are going at the moment. This way NI and Ireland get a second say.
I'd expect NI to vote to join Ireland. I don't think it's going to go great for them after Brexit.

An Ciarraioch

The biggest problem with the idea is that even in five years time, there would still be a pro-union majority (albeit narrow) in NI, but unionists themselves don't want a hard Border.

Calina

A backstop with a time limit is not a backstop. It is a can kicking exercise. If the UK generally believes the backstop won't be needed, they would be able to agree to it being unlimited. The fact that they want to limit it is a clear indication it will be needed. This is one reason why offering them a five year limit is kucking ourselves in the face with studded shoes.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1053564832497262592

You'd nearly feel for TM at this stage. Every turn is blocked by some idiot

Rhineshark

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1053564832497262592

You'd nearly feel for TM at this stage. Every turn is blocked by some idiot

Oh for heaven's sake, again? I thought the ERG already did that anyway?

Enzokk

mickoneill31 wrote: »

I was thinking about the backstop issues that the UK has now.

How's this as a proposal.

Backstop is time limited for 5 years.
At 5 years there is a border poll asking NI if they want to join Ireland or stay as they are (simultaneous poll in Ireland obviously).

If NI joins Ireland then the UK has to support NI at current rates for 5 years (a transition period).
After 5 years the EU helps out Ireland for another 5.

If NI doesn't join Ireland then there's a border but they'll have agreed to it in the referendum.

I'm not a republican. I don't really care much about NI. But with support from the UK and EU we could just move this along and put it behind us one way or the other.

It gives NI a great advantage. If the UK is doing great after Brexit then they can stay with them. If they're not they can abandon ship.

So what great bit glaring holes are there in this idea
I'm sure there are plenty.

The DUP will probably say no. But it's democracy, will of the people and all of that good stuff that the guys in the UK shout about these days.

I think that if one of the goals for the politicians here was unification then the EU would probably think about a proposal like this. Seeing that this is not the case I don't see why it would be agreed to with that being the case.