Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

UK are still arguing with itself.

EU waits patiently for the UK to decide what it actually wants.

Raab and May say the deal is 95% agreed, with just the business of betraying the DUP left to be dealt with after the Budget.

Water John

One would hope with less political discussion in the public domain that some real progress is being quietly negotiated in the background.

Evd-Burner

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Raab and May say the deal is 95% agreed, with just the business of betraying the DUP left to be dealt with after the Budget.

I wonder will the DUP vote against the budget in frustration of not having the details of the deal and knowing they are likely about to be betrayed!

murphaph

judeboy101 wrote: »

Why accept a country that would insist on keeping sterling (snp stated that post indo they would keep it). Why accept a country that would have nuclear weapons (snp said they would allow brits use north sea bases for missile subs). Why accept another country that has a built in sectarian anti catholic political system?

Scotland would not be allowed entry without adoption of the Euro. The EU would possibly welcome the nuclear weapons with an increasingly aggressive Russia and hostile POTUS to our right and left.

If an independent Scotland did have a sectarian system of government I would also have a problem with that but you're talking about an independent Scotland as if absolutely nothing would change after independence.

lawred2

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Raab and May say the deal is 95% agreed, with just the business of betraying the DUP left to be dealt with after the Budget.

EU responded with 0% agreed.

Zubeneschamali

lawred2 wrote: »

EU responded with 0% agreed.

Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

Water John

EU always use the mantra, that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. This does not mean you can tramp back over items already dealt with. Anyone who has done business or union negotiations will know once an item goes colour green as agreed, it would be looked on very poorly to revisit that item. Thus the Dec agreement has gone green but the UK want to unpick it.

Zubes there first.

Zubeneschamali

Water John wrote: »

EU always use the mantra, that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

No, that was the UK mantra back after December when they were trying to backtrack on the border.

The EU are only using it now to rub their noses in it.

Infini

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Buying from amazon.co.uk will be the same as buying from amazon.com, expect to pay a chunk in tax in order to get your parcel released

Wouldn't be suprised if they set up an amazon.ie after brexit if there's no deal. That address atm auto redirects to the UK site but they'd probably set up one for ireland over a no deal.

prawnsambo

Infini wrote: »

Wouldn't be suprised if they set up an amazon.ie after brexit if there's no deal. That address atm auto redirects to the UK site but they'd probably set up one for ireland over a no deal.

This is one of those quandaries that faces every British business that exports to the EU and also services its own market. Is it better to keep the current model (import from the EU and export a subset to Ireland) or import to (say) Ireland and export the UK portion to the UK. Ireland in this instance could also refer to other EU countries they export to.

I suspect it would largely depend on the relative size of the export market. If it's small enough, either absorb the tariff cost or else drop it entirely.

sink

Infini wrote: »

Wouldn't be suprised if they set up an amazon.ie after brexit if there's no deal. That address atm auto redirects to the UK site but they'd probably set up one for ireland over a no deal.

I don't know. At the moment they only have UK, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands & Germany. They don't have Poland, Belgium or Sweden for example which are all larger markets than Ireland.

kuro68k

sink wrote: »

I don't know. At the moment they only have UK, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands & Germany. They don't have Poland, Belgium or Sweden for example which are all larger markets than Ireland.

Ireland would probably get redirected to an auto-translated .fr or .de site.

RobMc59

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

EU always use the mantra, that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

No, that was the UK mantra back after December when they were trying to backtrack on the border.

The EU are only using it now to rub their noses in it.

This isn't personal-it's just business between the EU and Britain,nothing more.If other restless countries are discouraged by the complexity of what's unfolding -that's a bonus for the EU.

Strazdas

Deleted User wrote: »

Could someone fill me in on the latest happenings? Just briefly. I've been busy and haven't had a chance to keep up. Thanks.

The UK still trying to get out of the backstop. It's reported that that there are no UK-EU discussions even underway at the moment, as the British Cabinet is so riven with division on the issue.

Strazdas

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Buying from amazon.co.uk will be the same as buying from amazon.com, expect to pay a chunk in tax in order to get your parcel released

I was reading a good few months back that the Irish Govt will have to employ extra customs staff to deal with UK mail, as it will be a non EU country. This wasn't idle speculation, they were quoting someone from the relevant department.

kuro68k

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/25/cabinet-waking-consequences-mays-plans-could-gone-christmas/

"After all, the December deal with the EU was based on such a misunderstanding: British officials thought they’d offered meaningless assurances on Northern Ireland (the so-called backstop) which turned out to be not just meaningful but legally binding"

This has to be the most idiotic defence of the government's position ever. How dare they take us at our word. Didn't they know we were lying???

Inquitus

Strazdas wrote: »

I was reading a good few months back that the Irish Govt will have to employ extra customs staff to deal with UK mail, as it will be a non EU country. This wasn't idle speculation, they were quoting someone from the relevant department.

If you buy something on mainland Europe and it ships via DHL Next Day it generally goes via a sorting center in the UK e.g

Amsterdam -> East Midlands -> Dublin

I am not an expert on the impacts of leaving the CU, but I would imagine that a no deal Brexit would rule this route out?

Strazdas

kuro68k wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/25/cabinet-waking-consequences-mays-plans-could-gone-christmas/

"After all, the December deal with the EU was based on such a misunderstanding: British officials thought they’d offered meaningless assurances on Northern Ireland (the so-called backstop) which turned out to be not just meaningful but legally binding"

This has to be the most idiotic defence of the government's position ever. How dare they take us at our word. Didn't they know we were lying???

The only reason the talks were allowed move on at that point in December is because the UK agreed to the backstop. The EU say they would have halted the entire talks process without such an agreement.

Telegraph are talking as if this was some minor sticking point, when in fact it was central to the negotiations.

Strazdas

Inquitus wrote: »

If you buy something on mainland Europe and it ships via DHL Next Day it generally goes via a sorting center in the UK e.g

Amsterdam -> East Midlands -> Dublin

I am not an expert on the impacts of leaving the CU, but I would imagine that a no deal Brexit would rule this route out?

Yes, everything arriving from the UK will be treated as "non EU", meaning large amounts of UK mail will be scanned and probably opened from now on.

prawnsambo

Strazdas wrote: »

The UK still trying to get out of the backstop. It's reported that that there are no UK-EU discussions even underway at the moment, as the British Cabinet is so riven with division on the issue.

The contortions they are going through to get over this are hilarious. This morning I read an article written by a Tory MP talking about a possible EEA/EFTA agreement which 'somehow' could be agreed before the withdrawal date and be legally binding, yet would be temporary until something better was negotiated but at the same time would replace the transition period and of course would eliminate the need for a backstop.

It was full on "look over here at this thing you might like, don't look over there at that unnecessary backstop thingy, but concentrate on this because it will probably go away and be replaced by something even better, stop looking at the backstop!"

Hurrache

It's not the first time that it's been mentioned that UK officials didn't understand, or were confused at a later stage, to what the backstop was they signed up to. It's just people trying to excuse the fact they're trying to weasel their way out of it.

MrMusician18

Hurrache wrote: »

It's not the first time that it's been mentioned that UK officials didn't understand, or were confused at a later stage, to what the backstop was they signed up to. It's just people trying to excuse the fact they're trying to weasel their way out of it.

That's nonsense. They knew full well what they agreed to but they either thought that the the negotiation on future trade would render it meaningless l, failed to comprehend the opposition it would receive at home, or what I suspect, were willing to agree to anything to allow talks to proceed, and maintain the illusion of progress at home.

Hurrache

We all know it's nonsense, but that's the story some are trying to perpetuate.

Sam Russell

It would be just as valid to argue that those who voted for Brexit did not understand what they had actually voted for and should get another go.

trellheim

With the backstop it becomes clear that what happened back then was "we'll sign any oul s***te to let the negotiations move on sure who reads that stuff anyway"

Now : Barnier is waiting for the call and it appears Olly Robbins is being headhunted by the City.


because last nights Question Time was in Barrow in Furness they put on Andrea Jenkyns who was a complete car-crash brexiter.... I can't see any hope at this stage . We are likely running close to No Deal at the moment tho'

Winters

Inquitus wrote: »

If you buy something on mainland Europe and it ships via DHL Next Day it generally goes via a sorting center in the UK e.g

Amsterdam -> East Midlands -> Dublin

I am not an expert on the impacts of leaving the CU, but I would imagine that a no deal Brexit would rule this route out?

Correct, they may route it through the Brussels or Leipzig hubs in that situation.

RobMc59

Macron has replied to raabs remarks that the UK may have to use different ports instead of calais due to disruption-saying France wouldn't want to commit economic suicide and will ensure a fluid,trouble free trade route-rather flys in the face of the fear mongers theories ...

bob mcbob

judeboy101 wrote: »

Why accept a country that would insist on keeping sterling (snp stated that post indo they would keep it). Why accept a country that would have nuclear weapons (snp said they would allow brits use north sea bases for missile subs). Why accept another country that has a built in sectarian anti catholic political system?

Oh really

In the attached, the demographics of the 2014 indy ref broken down by religion.
Of all religious groups, Catholics were the biggest group in favour of independence with 57.7% voting yes. Seems a bit at odds with the above.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

judeboy101

bob mcbob wrote: »

Oh really

In the attached, the demographics of the 2014 indy ref broken down by religion.
Of all religious groups, Catholics were the biggest group in favour of independence with 57.7% voting yes. Seems a bit at odds with the above.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

The scots accept overwhelming the presence of an anti catholic head of state and endorse via the ballot box a system of government that prevents a catholic from ever being PM. I see no difference between this and the Turkish situation and the SNP have categorically stated that they will retain the saxa-coburg gotha cadet branch as the source of all their future heads of state post indo, along with the inbuilt sectarian that comes with it.

Rhineshark

judeboy101 wrote: »

The scots accept overwhelming the presence of an anti catholic head of state and endorse via the ballot box a system of government that prevents a catholic from ever being PM. I see no difference between this and the Turkish situation and the SNP have categorically stated that they will retain the saxa-coburg gotha cadet branch as the source of all their future heads of state post indo, along with the inbuilt sectarian that comes with it.

It is entirely possible that, having grown up with it, its more just a normal vagary of being a British citizen rather than a personal religious statement of hating Catholics.