Landlords agent let themselves in

JustMe,K

This is the second weekend in a row I have had no hot water in my (professionally managed) apartment. The LL sent someone to look at it and fix it last week, which lasted about 30 hours, and then we have no hot water again. Logged this with my LL, called them this morning, they said they would send someone round. No problem with that until they asked could the plumber let themselves in and I told them my [teenage] daughter was at home sleeping so no, they could not. They were to call me when they were on the way so I could ring her to wake her up.

This is where the problem lies - the plumber did not call me, he let himself in. My daughter was woken up to the sound of the door locking when he was done. I have spoken to the LL and complained about the plumber letting himself in, I was asked to put it in writing but I wonder does anyone know where we stand with this one? And no, the hot water still is not fixed.

skallywag

To the best of my knowledge, the LL cannot enter the property without your prior permission unless there is some class of emergency situation in play, such as a fire, etc.

The LL is completely in the wrong here in my opinion.

On the other hand, if it had been me, I would have simply given the permission to enter, and called my daughter to let her know that someone would be coming round.

You either want it fixed or not. Why didn't you just call her earlier in the day when you knew he would be calling. A busy plumber has better things for doing than pussy footing around an overly picky tenant.

Anytime I needed a tradesman was needed in any house I rented the LL would let me know roughly when he would come and I'd leave a key under the matt every morning going to work from him to get in until the work was done, never got this desire people have to put themselves out over getting a bit of work done rather than just let the LL get on with it and have it fixed.

JustMe,K

skallywag wrote: »

On the other hand, if it had been me, I would have simply given the permission to enter, and called my daughter to let her know that someone would be coming round.

There would have been no need for the plumber to let himself in if they had called me as planned so that I could call her to wake her and let her know to expect him, as the LL hadn't even confirmed that someone would be coming today, never mind if it was to be morning or afternoon.

JustMe,K

Danica Uninterested Burglar wrote: »

You either want it fixed or not. Why didn't you just call her earlier in the day when you knew he would be calling. A busy plumber has better things for doing than pussy footing around an overly picky tenant.

Anytime I needed a tradesman was needed in any house I rented the LL would let me know roughly when he would come and I'd leave a key under the matt every morning going to work from him to get in until the work was done, never got this desire people have to put themselves out over getting a bit of work done rather than just let the LL get on with it and have it fixed.

Overly picky? I think not - there was no indication from the LL that he would be there today. Ordinarily, if there was no one home of course I would give permission to let themselves in - but when expressly asked could they let themselves in, expressly saying no (and explaining why), and the LL saying that I would get a call first, I cant see how thats pussy footing around anything.

Graces7

kcdiom wrote: »

Overly picky? I think not - there was no indication from the LL that he would be there today. Ordinarily, if there was no one home of course I would give permission to let themselves in - but when expressly asked could they let themselves in, expressly saying no (and explaining why), and the LL saying that I would get a call first, I cant see how thats pussy footing around anything.

agree totally and so do tenancy rules. they were told why.

GarIT

Complain to the RTB and contact your solicitor, €10,000 payouts have been made in similar circumstances.

Whether someone wants to call you picky or not what the plumber did was illegal.

amdublin

Yeah a bit of a breakdown in conversation but **** happens. What's the difference really? Either your daughter let's them in or they let themselves in. The job had to be done at the end of the day right.

Zulu

kcdiom wrote: »

...and the LL saying that I would get a call first, I cant see how thats pussy footing around anything.

Perhaps the plumber forgot/didnt mention to the LL when he was going to attend?


TBF you've made this whole thing a bit more awkard and complex than it need to to be - you could have rang your teenage daughter in the first instance and advised her of the same without creating this conditional scenario.


Eitherway, it's now done. What are you hoping for next? If the landlord is in the wrong (which it sounds like they are), what do you want? An apology? Compensation? And all-out fight through the RTB?


Life is fairly fleeting, I'd suggest getting on with it.

BoneIdol

It's bad enough trying to get a tradesman to come when you're organising it yourself. When it's going through a third party it's a nightmare. I'd be inclined to let it go.

AtomicHorror

A lot of downplaying comments here... I wonder how many would be happy to wake up realizing a stranger has just entered their home?

It's a clear breach of the landlord's obligations, and the presence of a minor makes it a bit more serious. However, as it's only a single instance, it's hard to see much coming of it if you do decide to escalate.

I would put it in writing, to ensure there's a record for future reference, and to make your expectations clear to your landlord.

After that, I would only escalate to PRTB if there's a recurrence. They'll likely only take action on evidence of a pattern of breaches.

JustMe,K

TBH I am not looking for a payout or anything like it. I'd like the LL to actually fix the issue, and have the peace of mind that there are not going to be people coming and going in my home without my consent. And yes, an apology and acknowledgement that it shouldn't have happened wouldn't go amiss. What is the point in even asking if they can let themselves in if they pay no attention to it?

My daughter was working last night, which is the whole reason she was sleeping today, and I could not have rang her to let her know the plumber was coming as I was not given that information.

JustMe,K

AtomicHorror wrote: »

A lot of downplaying comments here... I wonder how many would be happy to wake up realizing a stranger has just entered their home?

It's a clear breach of the landlord's obligations, and the presence of a minor makes it a bit more serious. However, as it's only a single instance, it's hard to see much coming of it if you do decide to escalate.

I would put it in writing, to ensure there's a record for future reference, and to make your expectations clear to your landlord.

After that, I would only escalate to PRTB if there's a recurrence. They'll likely only take action on evidence of a pattern of breaches.

Probably the best idea - thanks. If it wasnt a pesky inservice day in school she would have been there instead of working last night anyway!

spaceHopper

You are being picky, the LL was being piggie in the middle, he'd to arrange for the plumber, then arrange for you to wake your daughter..... Next time either wake your daughter, be their yourself or ask for the plumbers number so that you can arrange it with them.

Ethereal Cereal

The replies to this thread are shocking. A tradesman illegally entered OP's apartment where his daughter was sleeping. This breaches terms of privacy, advance notice, and I'm assuming several other clauses on the lease.

You have rights OP, this was completely out of line, you should absolutely complain to the RTB, see where it goes from there.

I'm assuming the plumber was told by the landlord to let himself in, and that no one was home, otherwise he would have knocked. I'm sure he did not want to be put in this situation either.

JustMe,K

Ethereal Cereal wrote: »

The replies to this thread are shocking. A tradesman illegally entered OP's apartment where his daughter was sleeping. This breaches terms of privacy, advance notice, and I'm assuming several other clauses on the lease.

You have rights OP, this was completely out of line, you should absolutely complain to the RTB, see where it goes from there.

I'm assuming the plumber was told by the landlord to let himself in, and that no one was home, otherwise he would have knocked. I'm sure he did not want to be put in this situation either.

Well this is the point - plumber is on staff so I would imagine being told no you cant just let yourself in is more unusual than just using master keys, which should have stood out. Obviously I want the water fixed so if she hadnt been there, there would have been no issue. I'm not even going down the road that if it had been properly fixed last week none of this would be an issue today.

Graham

Mod Note

Some of the responses here are way below an acceptable standard for A & P.

Any more 'after hours' style responses will result in a card.

hawkelady

GarIT wrote: »

Complain to the RTB and contact your solicitor, €10,000 payouts have been made in similar circumstances.

Whether someone wants to call you picky or not what the plumber did was illegal.

And here we have it folks !!!! This utter tripe is what raises blood pressure in normal thinking people .
After reading it again I really hope it was typed with tongue in cheek , otherwise I know where I’d like to shove his tongue ..

Op.... get on with your life , ll was the middle man , in future get the tradesman number and arrange details with him directly

JustMe,K

spaceHopper wrote: »

You are being picky, the LL was being piggie in the middle, he'd to arrange for the plumber, then arrange for you to wake your daughter..... Next time either wake your daughter, be their yourself or ask for the plumbers number so that you can arrange it with them.

I did ask for their contact details, to be assured they would contact me. LL is not really piggy in the middle, they have a bank of maintenance staff that they allocate the jobs to.

Ray Palmer

The landlord could have easily passed on the instruction and the plumber ignored/forgotten. The issue is with plumber not the landlord if that is the case. What do you want the landlord do to him? Best he can do is not hire them again.
If you ever have to deal with tradesmen you know you should be grateful he turned up at all.Trying to organise a plumber to suit a 3rd party while getting them to turn up is unreasonable given the nature of tradesmen.

Wheres Me Jumper?

yes it is ILLEGAL for a LL to allow himself or anybody else to enter the property without tenant's prior permission. (unless the property or other residents are in imminent danger!)

what i usually do is to contact the tradesman and then ask him to make contact with the tenant, to arrange access etc.
that way the tenant can better explain exactly what the issue is.
i also make it clear to the tradesman that i will be paying, so he clears any work with me first before proceeding.

i find this works very well. no problems.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The landlord could have easily passed on the instruction and the plumber ignored/forgotten. The issue is with plumber not the landlord if that is the case. What do you want the landlord do to him? Best he can do is not hire them again.
If you ever have to deal with tradesmen you know you should be grateful he turned up at all.Trying to organise a plumber to suit a 3rd party while getting them to turn up is unreasonable given the nature of tradesmen.

still an ILLEGAL breach of tenancy agreement. no excuses.

Graces7

amdublin wrote: »

Yeah a bit of a breakdown in conversation but **** happens. What's the difference really? Either your daughter let's them in or they let themselves in. The job had to be done at the end of the day right.

If you were woken suddenly realising someone was in the house>?

NB as a safeguard I always snib/bolt the door from the inside when I am in.

unreg999

I am absolutely shocked by the (typical) responses to this thread, it is 100% NOT ok for anyone to let themselves into your home without your prior consent let alone with your teenage daughter asleep there!
Bad enough if she had been awake and aware of it but even worse that she was asleep and had no idea what was going on.
This is the stuff of nightmares for most women, not feeling safe in your own home.

I don't care for the responses that some people have 'you were lucky to get someone to come and do the work at all' so basically just suck it up!

Something similar happened to me, I had some ongoing work that needed to be done in a house I had just moved into, my landlady's Father called over to have a look at the dishwasher or something and just let himself in... my 14 year old daughter was home alone and it scared the crap out of her... his response was that he hadn't seen my car outside so thought I wasn't home!

He was gone by the time I got home but I told my Landlady in no uncertain terms that it could never happen again!

Ray Palmer

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

still an ILLEGAL breach of tenancy agreement. no excuses.

The plumber did have permission to enter the property just was meant to follow instructions. Any reasonable person knows the score and you would be so unlikely to win a case. Mountain over a molehill and all you can expect is an apology and nothing more.

Sleeper12

I am that plumber or a plumber. I don't ring when on the way. I give you a two or three hour window as to when I will be there. You will either be there or you won't.

The homeowner or tenant doesn't get to dictate when I might or might not be there. You are either there or not. If you are not there then you don't get the job done.
I'm not really sure what you might think the EA did wrong. Many companies give you an am/pm appointment. Some don't even narrow it down that much.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The plumber did have permission to enter the property just was meant to follow instructions. Any reasonable person knows the score and you would be so unlikely to win a case. Mountain over a molehill and all you can expect is an apology and nothing more.

the workman may have had (or thought he had) permission from the EA/LL, but if the tenant did NOT give her permission it counts for nothing.
it's effectively illegal entry.

Ray Palmer

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

the workman may have had (or thought he had) permission from the EA/LL, but if the tenant did NOT give her permission it counts for nothing.
it's effectively illegal entry.

What do you want to happen now?

Pelvis

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The plumber did have permission to enter the property

No, he didn't.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What do you want to happen now?

i dont want anything "to happen", but going forward the LL/EA should first obtain the tenant's permission before he lets himself or anyone else into what is effectively someone else's property.

Pelvis

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I am that plumber or a plumber. I don't ring when on the way. I give you a two or three hour window as to when I will be there. You will either be there or you won't.

The homeowner or tenant doesn't get to dictate when I might or might not be there. You are either there or not. If you are not there then you don't get the job done.
I'm not really sure what you might think the EA did wrong. Many companies give you an am/pm appointment. Some don't even narrow it down that much.

The op wasn't told the plumber was coming at all.

No one is saying he should be able to dictate when the plumber should arrive, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.