Landlords agent let themselves in

Sleeper12

TheChizler wrote: »

Surely that's just guesswork from yourself too, why say usually when earlier you said you'd never enter someone's house without them present?

Not only did I not say that but I actually stated that I have entered on my own with keys.


I also enter with the landlord with keys & every single time we knock& call hello several times. Any other tradesman here will confirm that it is done this way. Why would you think we sneak into someones home? I don't want to walk in on someone sitting on the bog dropping a load!


Sneaking into someone's home could result in you getting shot!!!!
Some people have guns in their homes.


Posters really need to think trough their thoughts before posting something that isn't plausible at all

osarusan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Here is what I know. Tradesman never gets permission from the tenant. Landlord must get permission from the tenant for the tradesman. It's landlords responsibility. Tradesman is there on behalf of the landlord. Landlord is responsible for anything his tradesmen do or don't do as far as the tenant is concerned. If the tradesman let himself in without permission tenants don't chase the tradesman. They chase the landlord because he is responsible for the tradesman.

Even if the landlord said to the tradesman get permission first it's still the landlords fault because it's his responsibility to get the permission himself. Landlord needs to satisfy himself that he has permission. Landlord can't pass his duty of care onto the tradesman.

It's really not that complicated. Many posters are over thinking the whole thing.

In this case I know that tradesman had keys. Only one reason that he had keys & that was to let himself in.

I don't disagree or have any issue with all of that.

But it doesn't address what I said earlier, which is that without knowing what was agreed between the plumber and landlord on how the tenant would be notified, it's not possible to know who was at fault for that.

For all we know the plumber agreed to give the tenant a call in advance, and simply didn't bother, or forgot, or whatever.

Or, maybe the plumber gave the landlord a time and the landlord said he'd call the tenant in advance, and didn't bother or forgot. We don't know.

Now, if it was the first scenario, and the plumber just didn't bother or forgot to make the call they had agreed to make, then I think the whole 'I am an agent of the landlord, my contract is with them and not the tenant, duty of care can't be passed to me' is a fairly weak way to avoid responsibility for failing to make the call they agreed to make.

But we don't know.

TheChizler

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not only did I not say that but I actually stated that I have entered on my own with keys.

Sorry I only saw that now. I was thinking of your post where you said you leave if nobody answers the door.

stinkbomb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Tradesmen don't need permission from the tenant.

Landlord needs to get permission from the tenant on behalf of the tradesman. Tradesman is acting on landlords behalf at all times.

Completely wrong. Can't believe people are this stupid!

stinkbomb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not only did I not say that but I actually stated that I have entered on my own with keys.


I also enter with the landlord with keys & every single time we knock& call hello several times. Any other tradesman here will confirm that it is done this way. Why would you think we sneak into someones home? I don't want to walk in on someone sitting on the bog dropping a load!

l

So you call and knock and if you don't get permission to enter you go in anyway, with keys? Completely ILLEGAL as well as appallingly rude. You do not have legal right to enter without express permission of the TENANT. LL can not give it when there is a tenant in situ.

This is why the rental system in Ireland is so bad, idiots like this don't understand basic law or indeed basic manners, and treat tenants like ****.

stinkbomb

stinkbomb wrote: »

Completely wrong. Can't believe people are this stupid!

Where are you getting this imaginary rule from? The LL seeks permission from the tenant not the tradesperson, as I and many other people have said it’s very very common for a tenant to have no contact whatsoever with a tradesperson and why would they it’s betwern the LL and the tenant to sort this stuff out and betwen the LL and the tradesman to get the work done.

It’s the LLs job to get permission for the tradesperson the tradesperson is under no obligation whatsoever to get seperate permission and I have no idea why you think they would.

Pelvis

Danica Uninterested Burglar wrote: »

Where are you getting this imaginary rule from? The LL seeks permission from the tenant not the tradesperson, as I and many other people have said it’s very very common for a tenant to have no contact whatsoever with a tradesperson and why would they it’s betwern the LL and the tenant to sort this stuff out and betwen the LL and the tradesman to get the work done.

It’s the LLs job to get permission for the tradesperson the tradesperson is under no obligation whatsoever to get seperate permission and I have no idea why you think they would.

So the tradesman arrives and the tenant has had something unexpected come up, and has to go out and asks the tradesman to come back another time. Can the tradesmen just go in anyway? Of course not. If the tenant is home then the tradesman needs permission to enter, this would be implicitly given by simply being allowed in, or in exception cases, being denied entry.

The tradesman can't turn around and say "well your landlord has given me permission so tough ****".

Clearly, in this case, no permission was given. Where the fault lies, we do not know, but that's also irrelevant from a tenant's point of view.

Ray Palmer

stinkbomb wrote: »

IT IS NOT normal or acceptable for a landlord to give keys to a tradesperson and tell them to let themselves in. IT IS NOT normal or acceptable for said tradesperson to let themselves into a property without the express permission of the TENANT.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this very simple fact for you if you have not yet understood.

I think you are under some misconception this is a debate. I am informing you how most people operate and are happy with it.

Landlord gets a plumber tells the tenant when they are due and if that is OK. Most tenants have no problem with a tradesman entering the property when they aren't there. That is normal and standard and I have been doing this for decades.

Some tenants don't like it so I let them arrange the time with the plumber. Generally they don't turn up on time and that is both tenant and tradesman. So it takes longer. If the tenant isn't there and the plumber charges for the failed call out I make the tenant pay. Plumber doesn't turn up can't do anything about it.

This case is simply a case of bad communication. If you can read one side of a story and take everything that person says as 100% you don't understand people at all.

What do you want to happen now? Plumber or landlord arrested? How much compensation? Seize the property? What???

An apology and a promise to get clear permission is it. Nothing more nothing less.

stinkbomb

It's neither normal nor standard, you have convinced yourself it is because you operate in such a way, unlike most people.

What do I want to happen now? People like you to understand that the tenant and not the landlord is the only one who can give permission to enter the property or hand out keys to anyone. That's what I want to happen, for everyone to understand that.

dr.fuzzenstein

stinkbomb wrote: »

So you call and knock and if you don't get permission to enter you go in anyway, with keys? Completely ILLEGAL as well as appallingly rude. You do not have legal right to enter without express permission of the TENANT. LL can not give it when there is a tenant in situ.

This is why the rental system in Ireland is so bad, idiots like this don't understand basic law or indeed basic manners, and treat tenants like ****.

What a stressful life you must lead if you get that worked up about someone calling to fix your heating.
Well, if you want to be precious about it, you can wait another 2 weeks when the tradesperson has the next opening. Or he may say "sorry mate, full up the next 2 months. How does April sound?"

stinkbomb

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What a stressful life you must lead if you get that worked up about someone calling to fix your heating.
Well, if you want to be precious about it, you can wait another 2 weeks when the tradesperson has the next opening."

I have a very unstressful life, thanks. But its not about someone calling to fix your heating, its about someone letting themself into your house without your permission. Which I imagine you would not like very much either, but I'm guessing you own your home so you think you have many more rights than renters do, and care little when the few rights they do have are trodden on.

It's appalling how stupid people are on this matter. My 5 year old can understand the concept of not entering other peoples homes without permission, yet grown adults here can't grasp it. Or just think that because someone is renting they don't have an right to privacy, safety and security, which is worse.

Wheres Me Jumper?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What a stressful life you must lead if you get that worked up about someone calling to fix your heating.
Well, if you want to be precious about it, you can wait another 2 weeks when the tradesperson has the next opening. Or he may say "sorry mate, full up the next 2 months. How does April sound?"

i am a grown man and nobody enters my house without my permission and my being there. i dont give a rat's how busy their frickin schedule.
and they'll go in and out the back gate if i say so.

my house! my rules!

dr.fuzzenstein

stinkbomb wrote: »

I have a very unstressful life, thanks. But its not about someone calling to fix your heating, its about someone letting themself into your house without your permission. Which I imagine you would not like very much either, but I'm guessing you own your home so you think you have many more rights than renters do, and care little when the few rights they do have are trodden on.

It's appalling how stupid people are on this matter. My 5 year old can understand the concept of not entering other peoples homes without permission, yet grown adults here can't grasp it. Or just think that because someone is renting they don't have an right to privacy, safety and security, which is worse.

You don't sound unstressed

Sleeper12

stinkbomb wrote: »

Completely wrong. Can't believe people are this stupid!

Why would you post that. It's totally misleading



Tradesmen don't need permission from the tenant.

Landlord needs to get permission from the tenant on behalf of the tradesman. Tradesman is acting on landlords behalf at all times.
In bold is fact. I am a landlord & a tradesman. I have legal advise on this so I know that I am 100 percent correct on this.


Let's break this down. A client gives me keys to an apartment or house & asks me to let myself in & repair their shower. How do I know if it's privately owned or a rental???


Even if the landlord tells me it's a rental I have no idea who lives here & no way to contact them even if I wanted to.


My contract is with the landlord & he is responsible in getting required permission. I am acting on behalf of the landlord. I'm not acting on my own behalf where I would need permission. Any landlord posting here will confirm this.



I know that you are not a landlord nor a tradesman when you make statements like this. Just because you want something to be so doesn't make it so. Landlords & tradesmen are running professional business. Do you really thing that we don't get legal advice from our solicitors?

stinkbomb wrote: »

So you call and knock and if you don't get permission to enter you go in anyway, with keys? Completely ILLEGAL as well as appallingly rude. You do not have legal right to enter without express permission of the TENANT. LL can not give it when there is a tenant in situ.

This is why the rental system in Ireland is so bad, idiots like this don't understand basic law or indeed basic manners, and treat tenants like ****.

You can't read peoples posts correctly ffs!
I never said I enter peoples property without permission. Please show where I ever said that.


What I did say is that no tradesperson or landlord sneaks into a rental with keys. We could be shot dead! Tenant could stab us thinking that we are breaking in!


Even when tenant told landlord they wont be there & please let yourself in we knock then use the key while making as much noise as possible Shouting hello several times. Any landlord or tradesmen posting here will confirm that this. I have never in my life seen any tradesman or landlord sneak into a property


You really need to read peoples posts properly before you accuse them of saying things they haven't said.

Sleeper12

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i am a grown man and nobody enters my house without my permission and my being there. i dont give a rat's how busy their frickin schedule.
and they'll go in and out the back gate if i say so.

my house! my rules!

You are 100 percent correct. When you have your own house then no one else has a key & you can & should control this.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You are 100 percent correct. When you have your own house then no one else has a key & you can & should control this.

and tenants are entitled to exactly the same.

stinkbomb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why would you post that. It's totally misleading



Tradesmen don't need permission from the tenant.

Landlord needs to get permission from the tenant on behalf of the tradesman. Tradesman is acting on landlords behalf at all times.
In bold is fact. I am a landlord & a tradesman. I have legal advise on this so I know that I am 100 percent correct on this.


Let's break this down. A client gives me keys to an apartment or house & asks me to let myself in & repair their shower. How do I know if it's privately owned or a rental???


Even if the landlord tells me it's a rental I have no idea who lives here & no way to contact them even if I wanted to.


My contract is with the landlord & he is responsible in getting required permission. I am acting on behalf of the landlord. I'm not acting on my own behalf where I would need permission. Any landlord posting here will confirm this.



I know that you are not a landlord nor a tradesman when you make statements like this. Just because you want something to be so doesn't make it so. Landlords & tradesmen are running professional business. Do you really thing that we don't get legal advice from our solicitors?

Youve got piss poor advice from your solr if you were actually told that you are legally ok to enter a rented property without the express permission of the TENANT.

Why are you so confused? When a property has a tenant, it is they who can say who can enter. The landlord has no business giving keys to anyone or giving anyone permission to enter, and a tradesperson has no business taking those keys or that permission.


I had a plumber come to my rented home last week. The process was incredibly simple: I report fault to landlords agent, they call plumber with my phone number, plumber calls me to gain access to property, plumber comes and fixes problem at mutually agreed time. It's exactly the same process as when a homeowner gets a plumber, except with one extra phone call.
This seems to be something you are unable to handle, yet it is what everyone does (except LL's and fools who don't understand how life works). Which part of it seems to hard to you?

Sleeper12

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

and tenants are entitled to exactly the same.

Yes they are entitled. However they don't always get it because other people have keys to their home as OP has told everybody by posting here

stinkbomb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You are 100 percent correct. When you have your own house then no one else has a key & you can & should control this.

My rented home is my own in that sense, legally, I can and do control it, and your comment here sums up your terrible attitude which is unfortunately too prevalent.

You believe tenants do not have the same rights to decide who enters their homes as homeowners. You are very wrong.

stinkbomb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Yes they are entitled. However they don't always get it because other people have keys to their home as OP has told everybody by posting here

People who should not use them nor hand them out to others to use them. Which is the point we are making.

Wheres Me Jumper?

stinkbomb wrote: »

Youve got piss poor advice from your solr if you were actually told that you are legally ok to enter a rented property without the express permission of the TENANT.

Why are you so confused? When a property has a tenant, it is they who can say who can enter. The landlord has no business giving keys to anyone or giving anyone permission to enter, and a tradesperson has no business taking those keys or that permission.


I had a plumber come to my rented home last week. The process was incredibly simple: I report fault to landlords agent, they call plumber with my phone number, plumber calls me to gain access to property, plumber comes and fixes problem at mutually agreed time. It's exactly the same process as when a homeowner gets a plumber, except with one extra phone call.
This seems to be something you are unable to handle, yet it is what everyone does (except LL's and fools who don't understand how life works). Which part of it seems to hard to you?

i agree with 99% of your post, except i must say that as a LL that is exactly how i operate.
i give the worker the tenant's mobile and they take it from there. all in all it's much easier. saves me the hassle of letting some guy in to fix a leaky tap.

also from a security point of view, i think it's illadvised to be giving out keys to every tom, dick or harry.

Pelvis

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What a stressful life you must lead if you get that worked up about someone calling to fix your heating.
Well, if you want to be precious about it, you can wait another 2 weeks when the tradesperson has the next opening. Or he may say "sorry mate, full up the next 2 months. How does April sound?"

You hang up the phone and call the next guy in the phone book who's happy to oblige, there's plenty to choose from.

GreeBo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Usually when letting yourself in, you would knock, just in case someone was in. Then as you open the door you'd give a shout "hello". Why anyone would try suggest the plumber didn't do this is beyond me. It's pure guesswork & not based on fact. Why not claim that he cooked himself a fry while he was there too?

Here is a mad idea, if no one answers the door you don't let yourself in?

stinkbomb

Apologies I should have said "except bad landlords". Many landlords are excellent and would never dream of giving out keys or sending people without permission.

Wheres Me Jumper?

stinkbomb wrote: »

Apologies I should have said "except bad landlords". Many landlords are excellent and would never dream of giving out keys or sending people without permission.

apologies accepted.
i think this really comes down to common sense and respecting other people's homes. as a student my idiot LL did exactly this, and it pi$$ed me off, so i would not do that to someone else.

also aside from any legal issues, as a LL you should want your (paying) tenants to be happy. happy tenants tend to be good tenants. i never hear from them tbh. the rent is always paid on time.

Win Win!:D

Sleeper12

GreeBo wrote: »

Here is a mad idea, if no one answers the door you don't let yourself in?

Ffs! Another poster that can't read posts.

Lets do this in bold With full permission from the tenant to enter landlords & tradesmen always knock first. then use the key making as much noise as possible & then shout hello several times.

Here is a mad idea, if no one answers the door you don't let yourself in?

You do realize that comment makes no sense at all. Tenant is expecting you to let yourself in. I am not expecting tenant to be home because they told me they wont be there.



Please, please explain how I shouldn't enter after I knock. What would be my point in going there if I don't follow through & let myself in as arranged?


You aren't making any sense at all

Ray Palmer

stinkbomb wrote: »

It's neither normal nor standard, you have convinced yourself it is because you operate in such a way, unlike most people.

What do I want to happen now? People like you to understand that the tenant and not the landlord is the only one who can give permission to enter the property or hand out keys to anyone. That's what I want to happen, for everyone to understand that.

You are actually just wrong on the keys. I own the keys and locks and give them to whom ever I want. While the tenant can't and aren't even meant to make copies.

I have been renting properties for over 20 years and hired multiple trades people and dealt with over 50 tenants and that is how they want it done. That is that. I am not acting illegally in doing it this way and tenants give permission.

You are blinded in your rage from understanding what has been said multiple times. Most tenants are happy to have the tradesmen call when not there and are giving permission.

You can keep calling me stupid but you can't grasp the concept of what people actual agree to and actually do. You are being informed what is normally done but refuse to accept that. I doubt you have any real experience of actually organising work on property while I have decades of experience. Of course you are right and I am wrong.

Sleeper12

stinkbomb wrote: »

Youve got piss poor advice from your solr if you were actually told that you are legally ok to enter a rented property without the express permission of the TENANT.

Why are you so confused? When a property has a tenant, it is they who can say who can enter. The landlord has no business giving keys to anyone or giving anyone permission to enter, and a tradesperson has no business taking those keys or that permission.


I had a plumber come to my rented home last week. The process was incredibly simple: I report fault to landlords agent, they call plumber with my phone number, plumber calls me to gain access to property, plumber comes and fixes problem at mutually agreed time. It's exactly the same process as when a homeowner gets a plumber, except with one extra phone call.
This seems to be something you are unable to handle, yet it is what everyone does (except LL's and fools who don't understand how life works). Which part of it seems to hard to you?

You need to clam down. You have already called me stupid for posting facts. You have others here telling you that you are wrong. I'm telling you that I have gotten legal advice & you are comparing this to how things work in the place you rent!


OK Mr expert, someone gives me keys to a property how am I supposed to know is it a rental or private? Please answer


A landlord gives me keys to go repair the shower. I don't know the tenant, have never met the tenant & never will meet the tenant. How am I supposed to get permission from them? answer please


It is the landlords responsibility to get permission. Landlord is also supposed to know if I am GDPR compliant. They are responsible for how I treat someones data. How I use your data & store it. They are liable for how I treat your data

Sleeper12

Ray Palmer wrote: »

.

You can keep calling me stupid but you can't grasp the concept of what people actual agree to and actually do. You are being informed what is normally done but refuse to accept that. I doubt you have any real experience of actually organising work on property while I have decades of experience. Of course you are right and I am wrong.

He called me stupid too. Can't win an argument with facts so everyone else is stupid. Real intelligent:(

dr.fuzzenstein

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ffs! Another poster that can't read posts.
Lets do this in bold With full permission from the tenant to enter landlords & tradesmen always knock first. then use the key making as much noise as possible & then shout hello several times.

You do realize that comment makes no sense at all. Tenant is expecting you to let yourself in. I am not expecting tenant to be home because they told me they wont be there.

Please, please explain how I shouldn't enter after I knock. What would be my point in going there if I don't follow through & let myself in as arranged?

You aren't making any sense at all

Forget it, too many people are of the mindset "I am offended, so therefore I am automatically right".
Best is, let them jump and shout. 99.99% can't be arsed doing anything about it and the 0.01% o to a solicitor who tells them "not worth my while".
On the internet they all big men that will drag you to court because their bestest golf buddy is the biggest barrister in the land, on the other hand that is about as likely as Trump locking up Hillary Clinton. Just noise.