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Will Micheál Martin ever be Taoiseach?

245

Comments

  • #32
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Too much of a stink of criminality about FF still and will remain so as long as the old heads are there.

    New generation is its only hope.


  • #33
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Its funny how aged he is as a leader, most other parties bar labor have had a little bit of a rejuvenation with changing their leaders for younger members of the party.

    Micheál to me carries too much baggage of the past with him, which i suppose i could forget if he wasn't so unremarkable. The only time i really see him get animated about anything is when he talks about SF.

    Maybe he will surprise us all but i don't think he will ever lead the country.


  • #34
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,808 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Danzy wrote: »
    Too much of a stink of criminality about FF still and will remain so as long as the old heads are there.

    New generation is its only hope.

    And FG are just so bright and squeaky clean.


  • #35
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    blanch152 wrote: »
    To be fair FG have never "let the country go to hell in a hand basket". That is a lazy, tired and false interpretation.

    I do not agree with the direction they are taking this country in relation to environmental issues and carbon tax, but they have never presided over a mess in the way that FF have.

    The PBP bogey men types as you call them have nutty economic policies, so until that changes are never going to get anywhere.

    Environmental and carbon issues are the least of FGs issues. Look were the health and housing systems are at present. They have led the country into an emergency housing crisis.

    They are years in power so the old chestnut of FF are to blame is really old.

    I can see all those 20/30 somethings who cannot find rentals or houses to buy coming out in numbers if theres a GE and I doubt they will be ticking the FG box.


  • #36
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Irrelevant who our next leader is here...mainland Europe rules
    (Oh and maybe were lucky for that)


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  • #37
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Danzy wrote: »
    Too much of a stink of criminality about FF still and will remain so as long as the old heads are there.

    New generation is its only hope.

    Ironic comment given that the communications minister (former FG) just stepped down for inappropriate behaviour. The whole rural broadband thing up in a heap now. Millions more wasted as the whole process goes back to starting point.


  • #38
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    And FG are just so bright and squeaky clean.

    It's more that if you were a scobe on the make you went for FF, as they were the ones in power and who had loaded the Guards,Civil service etc with followers and members.

    You were untouchable.

    That was a big draw.

    If FG were in power as often then the mass of scum would have joined them.


  • #39
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,808 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Danzy wrote: »
    It's more that if you were a scobe on the make you went for FF, as they were the ones in power and who had loaded the Guards,Civil service etc with followers and members.

    You were untouchable.

    That was a big draw.

    If FG were in power as often then the mass of scum would have joined them.
    .

    No difference as far as I'm concerned.
    See Lowry, Dinny and Moriarty.


  • #40
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Environmental and carbon issues are the least of FGs issues. Look were the health and housing systems are at present. They have led the country into an emergency housing crisis.

    They are years in power so the old chestnut of FF are to blame is really old.

    I can see all those 20/30 somethings who cannot find rentals or houses to buy coming out in numbers if theres a GE and I doubt they will be ticking the FG box.

    Aye.
    Record breaking child homeless numbers. Record breaking means even during the slum days of the 1930's or recession days of Fianna Fail in the late 80's, never has there been so many children homeless.
    Then theres the par for the course worsening crises. Working tax payers can't make rent and so on. So to be fair.....
    As for FF, well FG think they are suitable at the table of power.

    Martin is were Enda was many moons ago. Talk of he should resign etc. All different shades of the same rot.
    If FG were half decent at their job they wouldn't be relying on FF so soon.


  • #41
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I hope not and I hope FG ditch leo as well.

    One will shaft you and the other tell you what you want to hear. Both were useless in health.


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  • #42
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,714 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Matt Barrett wrote:
    Aye. Record breaking child homeless numbers. Record breaking means even during the slum days of the 1930's or recession days of Fianna Fail in the late 80's, never has there been so many children homeless. Then theres the par for the course worsening crises. Working tax payers can't make rent and so on. So to be fair.....


    Watch them get reelected!


  • #43
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Watch them get reelected!

    Likely alright. I think the hanging on by the nails will continue though.


  • #44
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Watch them get reelected!

    Don't think so. If there was a GE tomorrow it would be similar result. Split vote with no party getting a majority. SF could benefit from all the anger that's out there amongst youth in the country (renters, first time buyers etc).


  • #45
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    In fairness he has peaked, a sloppy opposition will be his highest position.


  • #46
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,814 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Ledger Late Firearm wrote:
    One will shaft you and the other tell you what you want to hear. Both were useless in health.

    Name someone who was good in health.

    Micheal Martin brought in no smoking in workplace. First country to do so if I'm not mistaken.
    Think that had a positive impact on the health of many.


  • #47
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    .

    No difference as far as I'm concerned.
    See Lowry, Dinny and Moriarty.

    FF were just a more advanced version of the corruption in FG.

    A Kinahan cartel to the cattle rustling of FG.


  • #48
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    It's easy for politicians to be corrupt in a country with no accountability...... Bankers... Gardaí... Etc


  • #49
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    shenanagans wrote: »
    It's easy for politicians to be corrupt in a country with no accountability...... Bankers... Gardaí... Etc

    The politicians ensured it.

    As one hood said it " A pint or a transfer".


  • #50
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Martin is the last sticking block to a merger with FG and even he is wavering on that.
    It's inevitable at this stage. He has failed to stave of SF despite clean and dirty tactics.
    His strategy seems to let be to let the merger happen gradually (ever closer union, so to speak) in the hope he doesn't carry the can for it.


  • #51
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Environmental and carbon issues are the least of FGs issues. Look were the health and housing systems are at present. They have led the country into an emergency housing crisis.

    They are years in power so the old chestnut of FF are to blame is really old.

    I can see all those 20/30 somethings who cannot find rentals or houses to buy coming out in numbers if theres a GE and I doubt they will be ticking the FG box.


    Employment and population are higher than they have ever been. The success of FG in restoring the economy has increased the problem with housing. The rise of the entitlement culture has caused the rest of the problem with housing.

    The measures taken to date will have an effect, but they will take years. There is no quick solution.

    Look at the nonsense proposals from SF and PBP to build thousands of houses next year. With what money? With what planning permission? On what land? With what construction workers?


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  • #52
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    _Brian wrote: »
    In fairness he has peaked, a sloppy opposition will be his highest position.

    'Opposition', to use the term very loosely.


  • #53
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    shenanagans wrote: »
    It's easy for politicians to be corrupt in a country with no accountability...... Bankers... Gardaí... Etc


    https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017#table

    I don't know how many times I have to read this rubbish about how corrupt this country is. Look at the index. We are the 19th least corrupt country in the world!!

    Japan is more corrupt, so is France. Since 2012, around when FG came to power, we have improved by 5 percentage points.

    This isn't a defence of FG, it is just a statement of the facts.


  • #54
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Martin is the last sticking block to a merger with FG and even he is wavering on that.
    It's inevitable at this stage. He has failed to stave of SF despite clean and dirty tactics.
    His strategy seems to let be to let the merger happen gradually (ever closer union, so to speak) in the hope he doesn't carry the can for it.

    I can't see a merger. It works for FF/FG as is. They have each other. If they blended they'd have real opposition. Some party or other would gain the spotlight and they want to keep it on them. Why join when they can look after each other more effectively in "opposition" or as "alternatives" to each other?
    The result of course is the two of them practically on their uppers. I can't see either getting a majority for a few decades probably.


  • #55
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I can't see a merger. It works for FF/FG as is. They have each other. If they blended they'd have real opposition. Some party or other would gain the spotlight and they want to keep it on them. Why join when they can look after each other more effectively in "opposition" or as "alternates" to each other.

    I agree the current set up suits them. But it cannot last forever. The inevitable will happen. And the longer this goes on the easier it will be. They are becoming indistinguishable.


  • #56
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,134 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    blanch152 wrote:
    Employment and population are higher than they have ever been. The success of FG in restoring the economy has increased the problem with housing. The rise of the entitlement culture has caused the rest of the problem with housing.


    Are you crediting FG with the size of the population?


  • #57
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Are you crediting FG with the size of the population?


    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2018/


    Read the net migration statistics. A growing economy created more jobs which brought our young people home.


    Edit: I should have added that the entitlement culture prevented the jobs being filled from elsewhere within the population.


  • #58
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,814 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    blanch152 wrote:
    Look at the nonsense proposals from SF and PBP to build thousands of houses next year. With what money? With what planning permission? On what land? With what construction workers?

    SF and PBP are populists. They exist purely to provide a counter to those in power, FG, FF and previously Labour. Their rhetoric doesn't hold water in terms of real governance. Would be great if SF had taken initiative in NI with the assembly to show they could govern but it's still very partisan up there.

    I actually think we're not doing too bad with the confidence and supply model. Government doesn't have to be about a cabinet and then a rabid opposition. Be very regressive to say we're supporting nothing until we're in power. See US for example where that extreme leads to.


  • #59
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Employment and population are higher than they have ever been. The success of FG in restoring the economy has increased the problem with housing. The rise of the entitlement culture has caused the rest of the problem with housing.

    The measures taken to date will have an effect, but they will take years. There is no quick solution.

    Look at the nonsense proposals from SF and PBP to build thousands of houses next year. With what money? With what planning permission? On what land? With what construction workers?

    Agree with the entitlement culture comment but in fairness you can't blame population increase. FG should have made difficult decisions over recent years.... If you turn down a housing offer you go to the bottom of the list..... Get single people in large properties out to facilitate families, the whole council house for life is ridiculous..... Child benefit for 2 kids max, look at Margaret cash FFS, the state paying to raise all her kids.


  • #60
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,217 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    No I don't think so. And he'd be the first FF leader to not be Taoiseach which will probably hurt a bit. I'm sure when he joined FF it was a case of whoever was leader was more or less guaranteed to be Taoiseach at some point. As others have said he is associated with the Bertie Ahern/ Brian Cowan era and mess that created.

    I honestly don't follow the inner workings of FF enough to say who would be the runners and riders in a leadership contest but it would have to be a younger TD who doesn't have the baggage of Michael Martin's era.

    I also don't see FF and SF going into coalition as Sinn Fein have said they want to go into government as the major party which is unlikely in the short to medium term, as even though neither FG or FF will get an overall majority next time out(I think those days are gone honestly) they won't fall low enough to be behind SF.


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  • #61
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Agree with the entitlement culture comment but in fairness you can't blame population increase. FG should have made difficult decisions over recent years.... If you turn down a housing offer you go to the bottom of the list..... Get single people in large properties out to facilitate families, the whole council house for life is ridiculous..... Child benefit for 2 kids max, look at Margaret cash FFS, the state paying to raise all her kids.

    We had net emigration in 2013 of 18k.

    We now have net immigration of 34k estimated for 2018. If the 2013 figure had stayed steady, the population would be around 150k less than now. You can work it out from this table:

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2018/

    http://www.thejournal.ie/social-housing-list-june-2018-4256297-Sep2018/

    "71,858 were on the list waiting for social accommodation, a reduction of 13,941 from the same date in 2017."

    We could have more than eliminated the social housing list.


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