Will Micheál Martin ever be Taoiseach?

Zubeneschamali

Tell me how wrote: »

FF have kept their nose clean over last few years and could well reap the traditional swing that opposition seem to have at election.

The "throw the govt out" vote which used to alternate from FF to FG/Lab is more likely to go to Sinn Féin, I think, since FF have been propping up the government and are clearly backing the same policies. Younger voters are more likely to overlook SFs IRA past, too, so FF may just become a smaller party of older rural social conservatives, a junior coalition partner and then suffer the usual fate of such parties.

James Brown

Tell me how wrote: »

SF and PBP are populists. They exist purely to provide a counter to those in power, FG, FF and previously Labour. Their rhetoric doesn't hold water in terms of real governance. Would be great if SF had taken initiative in NI with the assembly to show they could govern but it's still very partisan up there.

I actually think we're not doing too bad with the confidence and supply model. Government doesn't have to be about a cabinet and then a rabid opposition. Be very regressive to say we're supporting nothing until we're in power. See US for example where that extreme leads to.

Are you talking about Fine Gael? They are presiding over record breaking numbers in child homelessness and the housing crisis and health seems to be forgot. Any opposition party should be a counter to that. Except MM and FF of course.
The DUP are equally if not more of the problem in NI. Why is it up to SF to pander to the questionable financing of the anti environment bigoted creationist DUP?

You're now saying we don't necessarily need a rabid opposition? Consumption over Ebola is it? A slower worsening misery?
I actually think you've no notion of what's happening in the country outside of listening to the 'economy' flag wavers stepping over the homeless to collect their rent cheques before returning to the Dail.

We're in a situation were two people, MM and Leo, nobody voted for are deciding when we get to cast a vote on their performance and using any excuse to hold to that power. This is two sets of chancers playing the country like it's a game. The malaise years of Irish politics sprinkled with worsening crises.

I think people will only buy into the 'it could be worse' con for so long.
What must it be like to wake up every day knowing you are leader of the country by default and you need the party you lambasted a few short years ago as the worst thing to happen to the country, as your bedfellow to shore you up? I'd say it's easy enough to take if you've no ethics or not married to any particular political ethos.

goat2

I think I heard that J o Donoghue is thinking of entering back into politics, He would have been a member of M Martins party, I am wondering if he is coming back into the party

MikeyTaylor

goat2 wrote: »

I think I heard that J o Donoghue is thinking of entering back into politics, He would have been a member of M Martins party, I am wondering if he is coming back into the party

You will withdraw that statement.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are you talking about Fine Gael? They are presiding over record breaking numbers in child homelessness and the housing crisis and health seems to be forgot. Any opposition party should be a counter to that. Except MM and FF of course.
The DUP are equally if not more of the problem in NI. Why is it up to SF to pander to the questionable financing of the anti environment bigoted creationist DUP?

You're now saying we don't necessarily need a rabid opposition? I actually think you've no notion of what's happening in the country outside of listening to the 'economy' flag wavers stepping over the homeless to collect their rent cheques before returning to the Dail.

I already posted a simple unchallenged explanation for the housing crisis and still we have posters rehashing rambling and incoherent rants about homelessness. It would be better if we had less of the rhetoric and more focus on the facts of the situation.

blanch152 wrote: »

We had net emigration in 2013 of 18k.

We now have net immigration of 34k estimated for 2018. If the 2013 figure had stayed steady, the population would be around 150k less than now. You can work it out from this table:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2018/

http://www.thejournal.ie/social-housing-list-june-2018-4256297-Sep2018/

"71,858 were on the list waiting for social accommodation, a reduction of 13,941 from the same date in 2017."

We could have more than eliminated the social housing list.

The facts show that the housing crisis is a product of the economic success. Rather than the government having underperformed, the facts better fit an argument that the government were too good at putting the country back on its feet, after the mess of the Bertie and Brian years, that the infrastructure has struggled to keep up. In other words, we are dealing with the problems of success, rather than the problems of failure.

For Forks Sake

goat2 wrote: »

I think I heard that J o Donoghue is thinking of entering back into politics, He would have been a member of M Martins party, I am wondering if he is coming back into the party

He's back and going for .... Kerry County Council

https://twitter.com/jerosullivanRK/status/1052529423788986368

MikeyTaylor

For Forks Sake wrote: »

He's back and going for .... Kerry County Council

https://twitter.com/jerosullivanRK/status/1052529423788986368

It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

ancapailldorcha

MikeyTaylor wrote: »

Interesting.

Mod: Please read the charter before posting again. This isn't a forum for one word and glib posts.

shenanagans

blanch152 wrote: »

I already posted a simple unchallenged explanation for the housing crisis and still we have posters rehashing rambling and incoherent rants about homelessness. It would be better if we had less of the rhetoric and more focus on the facts of the situation.



The facts show that the housing crisis is a product of the economic success. Rather than the government having underperformed, the facts better fit an argument that the government were too good at putting the country back on its feet, after the mess of the Bertie and Brian years, that the infrastructure has struggled to keep up. In other words, we are dealing with the problems of success, rather than the problems of failure.

Problems of success! Not sure that we can blame all our current issues on success. Really feel if some hard decisions were made over the last 5 years perhaps things in housing wouldn't be so bad. Changes need to be made and to do so one party needs a majority.

James Brown

shenanagans wrote: »

Problems of success! Not sure that we can blame all our current issues on success. Really feel if some hard decisions were made over the last 5 years perhaps things in housing wouldn't be so bad. Changes need to be made and to do so one party needs a majority.

The crises have worsened. It's been put about that these things take time, especially when you are working to make them worse. FG/FF policy is making them worse. The stats prove it. We didn't get record breaking numbers of child homeless because we're doing so well. We need cut our reliance on and favouring of the private market. It doesn't work. A fact borne out by the crises. We're only short of blaming PBP or Brexit at this stage.
MM is as culpable as anyone in the government proper.

Mutant z

Hopefully not.

seligehgit

shenanagans wrote: »

Leo has always stated he wants out of politics young. I'd say if he loses power he'll leave politics.

I could be remembering wrong...but do I recall him mentioning 40?? He's what 38 now...If he loses at the next election he'll pull out possibly?? Unless he's had a change of heart.

I believe he was going to leave politics when he hits 50.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Ail.

We're in a situation were two people, MM and Leo, nobody voted for are deciding when we get to cast a vote on their performance and using any excuse to hold to that power. This is two sets of chancers playing the country like it's a game. The malaise years of Irish politics sprinkled with worsening crises.

I think people will only buy into the 'it could be worse' con for so long.
What must it be like to wake up every day knowing you are leader of the country by default and you need the party you lambasted a few short years ago as the worst thing to happen to the country, as your bedfellow to shore you up? I'd say it's easy enough to take if you've no ethics or not married to any particular political ethos.

Nobody votes for MM or Leo, what sort of crazy nonsense is that?

Of course it could be worse. How quickly people forget double digit unemployment rates. We will be back to those six months after the loony left take charge.

Idbatterim

Not having Pinocchio, sorry Varadkar as Taoiseach would be fantastic. That thought makes it possible I’d consider the previously unthinkable, a vote for ff or sf ...

Inquitus

Not a hope, they won't win the next election and surely MM will get the heave afterwards,

James Brown

seligehgit wrote: »

I believe he was going to leave politics when he hits 50.

That's a very 'My Generation' childish statement. What age has to do with it I don't know. Surely it's more of a calling than a plan based on getting old? At least he stays at the same level of credibility as a politician. He's leader. Job done, what else it there? Put it on the C.V. take a selfie and move on. 'Policies, crises? Lolz.'

Tell me how

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We're in a situation were two people, MM and Leo, nobody voted for are deciding when we get to cast a vote on their performance and using any excuse to hold to that power. This is two sets of chancers playing the country like it's a game. The malaise years of Irish politics sprinkled with worsening crises.

You don't understand the political system do you?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think people will only buy into the 'it could be worse' con for so long.
What must it be like to wake up every day knowing you are leader of the country by default and you need the party you lambasted a few short years ago as the worst thing to happen to the country, as your bedfellow to shore you up? I'd say it's easy enough to take if you've no ethics or not married to any particular political ethos.

This is the simple rhetoric we hear from some who think everything should be easy, there should be houses, healthcare and education for everyone while simultaneously there should be no taxes.

James Brown

Tell me how wrote: »

You don't understand the political system do you?

Did I say what they were doing was illegal or against something? You obviously don't understand opinion.

Tell me how wrote: »

This is the simple rhetoric we hear from some who think everything should be easy, there should be houses, healthcare and education for everyone while simultaneously there should be no taxes.

No it's not. Your response is a lazy dismissal of opinions you don't like.
'There should be no taxes'? Complete tosh. Gather your thoughts and get back to me.

Tell me how

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Did I say what they were doing was illegal or against something? You obviously don't understand opinion.

Ok then. Can you explain what you meant when you said the following.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We're in a situation were two people, MM and Leo, nobody voted for are deciding when we get to cast a vote on their performance and using any excuse to hold to that power.

James Brown

Tell me how wrote: »

Ok then. Can you explain what you meant when you said the following.

Are leading the country. MM didn't win and is not the official leader. Leo got promoted to the post within his party.
Care to elaborate on your assertion that anybody's solution to the crises is more everything and no taxes?

Tell me how

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are leading the country. MM didn't win and is not the official leader. Leo got promoted to the post within his party.
Care to elaborate on your assertion that anybody's solution to the crises is more everything and no taxes?

I go back to my statement of you not understanding the political system.

I'll leave you to your soapbox.

McMurphy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are leading the country. MM didn't win and is not the official leader. Leo got promoted to the post within his party.
Care to elaborate on your assertion that anybody's solution to the crises is more everything and no taxes?

Coveney actually received double the votes Leo got from within his own party

James Brown

Tell me how wrote: »

I go back to my statement of you not understanding the political system.

I'll leave you to your soapbox.

I explained my reasoning. I believe you are the one soapboxing. I'm engaging with you. You chose to bow out.

Tell me how wrote: »

You don't understand the political system do you?



This is the simple rhetoric we hear from some who think everything should be easy, there should be houses, healthcare and education for everyone while simultaneously there should be no taxes.

We'll never know who these people are so.

James Brown

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Coveney actually received double the votes Leo got from within his own party

I find it farcical that FG have MM in a position of power. It's the height of political protectionism.
At least the DUP and Tories don't claim to be in opposition, (nor did the Tories lambast the DUP to get in).

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are leading the country. MM didn't win and is not the official leader. Leo got promoted to the post within his party.
Care to elaborate on your assertion that anybody's solution to the crises is more everything and no taxes?

You said quite clearly and unequivocably that nobody voted for Micheal Martin or Leo Varadkar. That clearly is nonsense.

Loafing Oaf

Inquitus wrote: »

Not a hope, they won't win the next election and surely MM will get the heave afterwards,

I think he could very well jump before he's pushed, i.e. as soon as it becomes apparent as the results come in that FF will not be the largest party.

In that scenario FF will face a range of unpalatable options, none of which would involve their leader becoming taoiseach, and I'd say MM would rather leave it to his successor to choose among them.

eagle eye

blanch152 wrote:

You said quite clearly and unequivocably that nobody voted for Micheal Martin or Leo Varadkar. That clearly is nonsense.

Nobody voted for a Leo Varadkar led government.

Danzy

Micheál is hardly leader of FF, nevermind being Taoiseach.

I can't think of any Party leader in the last thirty years that was so ignored and often disrespected by his own TDs.

FrancieBrady

Danzy wrote: »

Micheál is hardly leader of FF, nevermind being Taoiseach.

I can't think of any Party leader in the last thirty years that was so ignored and often disrespected by his own TDs.

Well FG councillors ignored their leadership's instruction not to support another presidential candidate. It's catching.

Danzy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well FG councillors ignored their leadership's instruction not to support another presidential candidate. It's catching.

When TDs treat their leader like that though it is down to deep contempt.

He knows they don't respect him and He has to grin and bear it.