NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Honestly I just don't want him going to LA or Boston(sorry Suki :pac:) give a small market a chance!

I think if all things were equal he goes to LA; but they're not, and that's what's so interesting about this.

I'm not hopeful he joins Boston btw, for a lot of reasons. They have the best assets, but the team with the best assets don't always get the trade done.

If he's not gone by All Star Break then it'll be all out war in the race to sign him in the summer., but imagine Philly offering Simmons or Butler + other bits and pieces or Toronto offering a few bits and pieces for a 2 Play Off window with Davis? Simmons/Butler is better than ANYTHING LA can offer right now or in the summer.

There will be 20+ teams offering packages for AD, maybe all 29. Some/most will have no hope but New Orleans owes it to themselves and their fans to get the best return they can get from this. That is not a trade with LA.

Osmosis Jones

Yeah as a Portland fan I basically have no hope in getting him but I'm very interested in acquiring Jrue if at all possible.

irishguitarlad

Jesus that Memphis Denver game was tough to watch. Up 25 at home and lose by three.

jonok28

Maybe I'm completely oblivious but I don't understand the hate the Lakers get these days, I understand the hate they received when they were winning titles in the early 2000's and when Kobe and Pau won them two titles but ever since then the Lakers have been on a fairly bad slide. The Chris Paul Trade gets vetoed and the Lakers are left in disarray,the Lakers trade for Steve Nash and Nash gets injured only a few games into his Laker Tenure and is never the same, the Lakers Trade for Howard and lose him in Free Agency, Kobe blows out his achilles and is never the same again, the Lakers lose numerous picks to the Magic and Suns and have to endure draft lottery after draft lottery to see if they keep their picks, they constantly miss out on some of the top players in the draft KAT, Embiid, Simmons and Tatum, they don't land numerous big free agents for years and go through a period of firing a head coach nearly every season, they don't make the playoffs for a long stretch and none of their draft prospects have reached star level as of yet, the ones they trade away D'Angelo Russell and Julius Randle are finally starting to look like borderline All Stars with other teams. They miss out on Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and DeMarcus Cousins And now when the Lakers finally turn things around by landing Lebron and trying to get Anthony Davis in a trade

I continually see more hate towards the Lakers and I just think to myself why? After nearly 6 seasons of the Lakers just getting by and scrapping into the playoffs and just about holding onto their pick I'm delighted that my Lakers are seemingly turning things around, watching the Lakers for the last number of years has been rough as a fan and I'm delighted to see we are turning things around.

LuckyLloyd

jonok28 wrote: »

Maybe I'm completely oblivious but I don't understand the hate the Lakers get these days, I understand the hate they received when they were winning titles in the early 2000's and when Kobe and Pau won them two titles but ever since then the Lakers have been on a fairly bad slide. The Chris Paul Trade gets vetoed and the Lakers are left in disarray,the Lakers trade for Steve Nash and Nash gets injured only a few games into his Laker Tenure and is never the same, the Lakers Trade for Howard and lose him in Free Agency, Kobe blows out his achilles and is never the same again, the Lakers lose numerous picks to the Magic and Suns and have to endure draft lottery after draft lottery to see if they keep their picks, they constantly miss out on some of the top players in the draft KAT, Embiid, Simmons and Tatum, they don't land numerous big free agents for years and go through a period of firing a head coach nearly every season, they don't make the playoffs for a long stretch and none of their draft prospects have reached star level as of yet, the ones they trade away D'Angelo Russell and Julius Randle are finally starting to look like borderline All Stars with other teams. They miss out on Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and DeMarcus Cousins And now when the Lakers finally turn things around by landing Lebron and trying to get Anthony Davis in a trade

I continually see more hate towards the Lakers and I just think to myself why? After nearly 6 seasons of the Lakers just getting by and scrapping into the playoffs and just about holding onto their pick I'm delighted that my Lakers are seemingly turning things around, watching the Lakers for the last number of years has been rough as a fan and I'm delighted to see we are turning things around.

The Lakers are hated because they are the biggest and most successful franchise in NBA history. When that's the case you'll always have haters. The haters have enjoyed this period of competitive irrelevance. Now that the greatest player in history has joined you the hate will be multiplied ten fold.

Enjoy it - if you manage to win a title in the next few years it will taste sweeter than anything that has come before it.

jonok28

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Lakers are hated because they are the biggest and most successful franchise in NBA history. When that's the case you'll always have haters. The haters have enjoyed this period of competitive irrelevance. Now that the greatest player in history has joined you the hate will be multiplied ten fold.

Enjoy it - if you manage to win a title in the next few years it will taste sweeter than anything that has come before it.

It will be hard to top the 2010 Finals against the Celtics, that was pure ecstasy
This AD situation is big, If he goes to the Celtics its probably the Celtics Warriors in the finals for the next 5 seasons. If he goes to the Lakers then The Warriors might have competition, If the Warriors keep Durant and Thompson I would still give them the edge.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Lakers are hated because they are the biggest and most successful franchise in NBA history. When that's the case you'll always have haters. The haters have enjoyed this period of competitive irrelevance. Now that the greatest player in history has joined you the hate will be multiplied ten fold.

Enjoy it - if you manage to win a title in the next few years it will taste sweeter than anything that has come before it.

Ah, Boston has more titles............

ButtersSuki

The Lakers are hated because they have a history of luring/attracting/stealing (whatever you want to call it) and tampering with other teams players going back decades, it's not a recent thing. They particularly targetted big men (when bigs were dominant, until LeBron mainly tbh) and have decimated other teams whilst doing so. They have variously "poached" Mikan, Wilt, Kareem amongst others. All 3 of those would have been bigger stars and better players in their era than Davis is now (relatively). When those players left their teams, they didn't just hamper them, they set them back years, even decades. AND THROUGH THE PAUL/LEBRON/KLUTCH COMBO THEY'RE EFFECTIVELY TRYING TO DO THIS AGAIN WITH DAVIS AND BULLY/FORCE NEW ORLEANS INTO A PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR TRADE.

They have a long history of illegal tampering. They've been called out on it many times and have been fined a lot recently for this. Most podcast hosts joke openly about how dodgy they are about this. Magic went on tv last year joking about it, and got fined for it.

Type "why do people hate the Lakers?" in to google and youi'll see some of the other reasons, and it's not all based on jealousy. This one is kinda funny:
https://www.sbnation.com/2012/10/30/3497238/los-angeles-lakers-hate-50-reasons

There's loads of articles like that, but go to reddit for real NBA fan Lakers hate.

Sure success is part of the hate, but Boston have more titles and don't get the same hate.

ButtersSuki

Paul saying AD wants to be traded is against the rules btw fort those not au fait with the technicalities of this. It was clearly designed to force NO's hand.

Let's be honest, everyone knows tampering has gone on here with the objective being to get AD to LA. Be that from Bron/Paul via Klutch or from LA themselves they've done it the bully boy way again. And though I hope they get screwed for it TBH, but I won't hold my breath.

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Paul saying AD wants to be traded is against the rules btw fort those not au fait with the technicalities of this. It was clearly designed to force NO's hand.

Let's be honest, everyone knows tampering has gone on here with the objective being to get AD to LA. Be that from Bron/Paul via Klutch or from LA themselves they've done it the bully boy way again. And though I hope they get screwed for it TBH, but I won't hold my breath.

Tampering happens in every organisation in the NBA. Mitch Kupchak used to be the butt of the jokes when he was the Lakers GM because he was notoriously straight laced and wouldn't speak with an agent or player until July 1st at 12:01. Pelinka and Magic being relative rookies in the front office have yet to perfect the nuanced approach of bending the NBA tampering rules and back channel deals. The Celtics did that with Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, the Heat did it with Chris Bosh and Lebron James, The Warriors did it With Kevin Durant. The Thunder did it with Paul George. Back channel deals are what the modern NBA has been built upon. The Lakers are just so blatant with what they are doing that they are being laughed at league wide regarding tampering but lets be honest they are not the only team doing it.

And I definitely wouldn't consider the Lakers potentially trading. KCP, Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac or Hart and 3 unprotected first round draft picks cents on the Dollar when Leonard someone in the same league as Davis went for DeMar DeRozan ( All Star Calibre but nothing more) and Jakob Poetl.

Teams can crap on the Lakers young guys but they do that just to drive down their trade value to trade for them. Julius Randle is doing very well with the Pelicans, D'Angelo Russell is having a break out season with the Nets and Larry Nance jr has looked good with the Cavs.

Lonzo is a borderline Elite defensive point guard at 21 years of age with incredible floor vision and who has improved as a scorer this season . Brandon Ingram is a 6'9 SF who can handle the ball like a PG, can defend multiple positions, has incredible potential as a scorer and who is still only 21. Kyle Kuzma is the perfect NBA stretch 4 who is a very good scorer and who has improved greatly as an facilitator. Josh Hart is a versatile defender who can Guard 1 to 4. Zubac has improved leaps and bounds the last number of weeks and has put up great numbers. Also the Lakers have all their picks available.

If The Celtics take Tatum out of any deal then I don't know if the Celtics offer is that much better than the Lakers.

Paully D

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah, Boston has more titles............

And the greatest player in history has been retired for the last 17 years.

jonok28

Paully D wrote: »

And the greatest player in history has been retired for the last 17 years.

Jordan is the greatest ever but I do think Lebron is the first person to warrant consideration in the conversation. Magic, Larry, Kareem and Bill Russell could be in the conversation depending on what era you come from but Lebron deserves to be mentioned amongst the greatest ever. If he can catch Jordan ring wise and beat the Warrior Dynasty over the next few years then you are going to hear alot of GOAT talk for Lebron.

ButtersSuki

Paully D wrote: »

And the greatest player in history has been retired for the last 17 years.

Larry Bird didn’t retire in 2002....:D

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

Jordan is the greatest ever but I do think Lebron is the first person to warrant consideration in the conversation. Magic, Larry, Kareem and Bill Russell could be in the conversation depending on what era you come from but Lebron deserves to be mentioned amongst the greatest ever. If he can catch Jordan ring wise and beat the Warrior Dynasty over the next few years then you are going to hear alot of GOAT talk for Lebron.

No. No. No.

Paully D

jonok28 wrote: »

If he can catch Jordan ring wise and beat the Warrior Dynasty over the next few years then you are going to hear alot of GOAT talk for Lebron.

He’d want to be catching him rings-wise considering he has had about 48 attempts in Finals so far plus an almost guaranteed route to the Finals by strategically playing on superteams in the horrific eastern conference for the last 6 or 7 years especially

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Ah, Boston has more titles............

That appears to be a relatively myopic determination of what was stated to be "the biggest & most successful team".
Obviously, if NBA titles are the metric that determines "biggest & most successful" then yes the Celtics clearly win
but if "biggest & most successful" has (as it should) a more all encompassing interpretration then the Lakers are likely to be the "biggest & most successful"

They're only 1 title begin the Celtics while having 10 more finals appearances than them.
I suspect if one was to judge the success of a team, the amount of finals appearances clearly have some weight.
One may even argue that 10 finals appearances is a better indicator of success than 1 title. Obviously that may be countered by success rate in finals but the margin seems too big to be ignored.

Furthermore, given it was clearly stated biggest, the Lakers have a far higher monetary valuation & are likely a more iconic brand than the Celtics.
According to Forbes the Lakers are worth $3.1 billion while the Celtics are only worth $2.5 billion.

Perhaps there are some additional metrics that sways "biggest & most successful" towards the Celtics but I think most people would view the Lakers as a bigger & more successful franchise overall.

jonok28

Paully D wrote: »

He’d want to be catching him rings-wise considering he has had about 48 attempts in Finals so far plus an almost guaranteed route to the Finals by strategically playing on superteams in the horrific eastern conference for the last 6 or 7 years especially

He's lost twice to a Super Team in Golden State and has beaten them once. He won twice with Miami in four years and the First 7 years of his career the best player he played with was Mo Williams and he still pushed the Celtics and Magic in the eastern conference and lost to the Spurs super team of Duncan, Parker and Manu in the finals again with just Mo Williams.

Jordan had a HOFer in Pippen for all his championships and it took 7 years for Jordan to even get to the finals.

Jordan is the GOAT, in no way shape or form am I saying he isn't but Lebron is on par with Jordan in nearly every single statistical category and will probably pass Jordan up in one or two of them categories before he retires. I'm not saying Lebron is the GOAT but he is 100% in the Category.

jonok28

Hitch2222 wrote: »

That appears to be a relatively myopic determination of what was stated to be "the biggest & most successful team".
Obviously, if NBA titles are the metric that determines "biggest & most successful" then yes the Celtics clearly win
but if "biggest & most successful" has (as it should) a more all encompassing interpretration then the Lakers are likely to be the "biggest & most successful"

They're only 1 title begin the Celtics while having 10 more finals appearances than them.
I suspect if one was to judge the success of a team, the amount of finals appearances clearly have some weight.
One may even argue that 10 finals appearances is a better indicator of success than 1 title. Obviously that may be countered by success rate in finals but the margin seems too big to be ignored.

Furthermore, given it was clearly stated biggest, the Lakers have a far higher monetary valuation & are likely a more iconic brand than the Celtics.
According to Forbes the Lakers are worth $3.1 billion while the Celtics are only worth $2.5 billion.

Perhaps there are some additional metrics that sways "biggest & most successful" towards the Celtics but I think most people would view the Lakers as a bigger & more successful franchise overall.

Even as a Lakers fan I have to give props to how dominant the Celtics were during the Russell era. That was an incredible run which I don't ever see being matched or surpassed.

Magic and Larry saved the NBA, their battles in the 80's redefined that NBA and along with Michael Jordan who took it to another level in the 90's made the NBA what it is today.

The Lakers have been the far more dominant team the last twenty years with 5 rings to the Celtics 1. The league is a far more enjoyable, exciting and entertaining place when the Lakers and Celtics are good. Here is hoping that the Lakers and Celtics can continue to grow, get better and meet in the finals a few more times over the coming years.

Paully D

jonok28 wrote: »

He's lost twice to a Super Team in Golden State and has beaten them once. He won twice with Miami in four years and the First 7 years of his career the best player he played with was Mo Williams and he still pushed the Celtics and Magic in the eastern conference and lost to the Spurs super team of Duncan, Parker and Manu in the finals again with just Mo Williams.

Jordan had a HOFer in Pippen for all his championships and it took 7 years for Jordan to even get to the finals.

Jordan is the GOAT, in no way shape or form am I saying he isn't but Lebron is on par with Jordan in nearly every single statistical category and will probably pass Jordan up in one or two of them categories before he retires. I'm not saying Lebron is the GOAT but he is 100% in the Category.

There’s a huge distinction that needs to be made here.

The bulk of that Warriors team was built almost entirely through the draft. Players such as Curry, Thompson, Green.

The Bulls very similar. Pippen was drafted. Same with the likes of Kukoc and Grant.

The Spurs drafted each of Duncan, Manu and Parker.

I have no issue at all with teams building through smart drafting and personnel decisions (the Warriors even won a Championship without Durant). That’s the way it should be done.

I argue on here that LeBron’s greatest achievement in his career was dragging that Cavs team to the Finals in 2008/2009 and no matter what happens from here I don’t think that will be beaten, IMO. It’s a pity that since then he has felt the need to bounce from team to team with his superstar friends in order to get it done. If he had stayed with the Cavs initially and even won one ring there it completely outclipses what he has achieved since taking the easy way out, in my eyes.

Hitch2222

Paully D wrote: »

There’s a huge distinction that needs to be made here.

The bulk of that Warriors team was built almost entirely through the draft. Players such as Curry, Thompson, Green.

The Bulls very similar. Pippen was drafted. Same with the likes of Kukoc and Grant.

The Spurs drafted each of Duncan, Manu and Parker.

I have no issue at all with teams building through smart drafting and personnel decisions (the Warriors even won a Championship without Durant). That’s the way it should be done.

I argue on here that LeBron’s greatest achievement in his career was dragging that Cavs team to the Finals in 2008/2009 and no matter what happens from here I don’t think that will be beaten, IMO. It’s a pity that since then he has felt the need to bounce from team to team with his superstar friends in order to get it done. If he had stayed with the Cavs initially and even won one ring there it completely outclipses what he has achieved since taking the easy way out, in my eyes.

I do agree that simply winning the title outright is not the metric that supersedes every other achievement. Obviously, winning titles is extremely important but it can't be all that matters so I agree the Cavs 2008/09 team was awful so obviously getting there was a fantastic achievement but I still think being the catalyst of the Cavs win over the Warriors was phenomenal and his crowning achievement thus far.
Difference of opinion but I see both sides.

That said, I totally disagree that the way it should be done is just through the draft. The employment of good scouts and coaches to identify and develop players
is incredibly important but the ability to adapt and move pieces around to construct a successful roster through trades is fantastic to witness in many respects.
That is no better demonstrated in recent times than the efforts of Danny Ainge who has pulled off some masterful moves in recent years to construct rosters to win a title, reset & build again with incredible continuity.

Finally, I believe there is some cognitive bias at play here. I don't believe that people would view LBJ staying in Cleveland and winning one title as eclipsing what he has achieved thus far having moved between teams and on to LA.
LBJ is a polarizing character and I think that largely plays in to peoples assessment of his athletic achievements.

For Forks Sake

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Larry Bird didn’t retire in 2002....:D

irishguitarlad

Ref called Harden's bluff last night. Tried to buy a foul like always but stepped out of play during the closing seconds. Good win for NOLA.

2smiggy

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Ref called Harden's bluff last night. Tried to buy a foul like always but stepped out of play during the closing seconds. Good win for NOLA.

i was shocked to see he only had 10 free throws attempts when i checked the scores this morning. I was wondering what was after going wrong !!

kmart6

Was delighted when I saw that. They need to start doing it more often. Just shows how he's playing expecting to get the call with how he has been reffed this season.

But then there was this which is ridiculous:
https://streamable.com/gf72b

ButtersSuki

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Did you miss the ":D"?

ButtersSuki

kmart6 wrote: »

Was delighted when I saw that. They need to start doing it more often. Just shows how he's playing expecting to get the call with how he has been reffed this season.

But then there was this which is ridiculous:
https://streamable.com/gf72b

Great shot, but if you're going to initiate contact the last thing you should be doing is stepping on someone's foot - that's a very risky move from an injury perspective, chances of rolling your ankle are extremely high on that kind of move. I know he hasn't put much weight on it prior to the jump but he's also jumping and then landing with the defender's feet beneath his as he lands. As someone who had glass ankles and dozens of sprains mixed in with multiple fractures I was wincing watching that.

ButtersSuki

ButtersSuki wrote: »

BTW, Houston are 4-4 over their last 8 games. They beat superpowers like the Knicks, Lakers without LeBron in OT, Memphis (1 win in their last 14 games) and Cleveland. They lost to the mighty Nets, even mightier Orlando, Milwaukee, and Philly by 28.

You can add losing to New Orleans (without Anthony Davis) to the above now - and don't forget Chris Paul is back.

jonok28

I'm going to throw Three trade Scenario's out there for Anthony Davis, I don't think the Celtics make Tatum available, they said he was untradeable at the start of the season and I have heard nothing to say he is definitely on the block. Hayward isn't a valuable trade piece if he can't regain his level of play pre injury and Al Horford has not been mentioned in any trade scenario.

Lakers trade: Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, Kentavious Cauldwell Pope ( Expiring) and Three unprotected 1st round picks (2019,2021,2023) for Anthony Davis.

Celtics Trade: Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Semi Ojeleye and Three 2019 First round draft picks. For Anthony Davis.

Bucks Trade: Khris Middleton ( Expiring), Thon Maker, Malcolm Brogdon and Brook Lopez (expiring).

Being a Laker fan I can't fairly give my opinion, so what do you all think?

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I'm going to throw Three trade Scenario's out there for Anthony Davis, I don't think the Celtics make Tatum available, they said he was untradeable at the start of the season and I have heard nothing to say he is definitely on the block. Hayward isn't a valuable trade piece if he can't regain his level of play pre injury and Al Horford has not been mentioned in any trade scenario.

Lakers trade: Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, Kentavious Cauldwell Pope ( Expiring) and Three unprotected 1st round picks (2019,2021,2023) for Anthony Davis.

Celtics Trade: Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Semi Ojeleye and Three 2019 First round draft picks. For Anthony Davis.

Bucks Trade: Khris Middleton ( Expiring), Thon Maker, Malcolm Brogdon and Brook Lopez (expiring).

Being a Laker fan I can't fairly give my opinion, so what do you all think?

Celtics will make Tatum available. He’s gone backwards. I can’t see them not making him available when the prize is AD.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I'm going to throw Three trade Scenario's out there for Anthony Davis, I don't think the Celtics make Tatum available, they said he was untradeable at the start of the season and I have heard nothing to say he is definitely on the block. Hayward isn't a valuable trade piece if he can't regain his level of play pre injury and Al Horford has not been mentioned in any trade scenario.

Lakers trade: Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, Kentavious Cauldwell Pope ( Expiring) and Three unprotected 1st round picks (2019,2021,2023) for Anthony Davis.

Celtics Trade: Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Semi Ojeleye and Three 2019 First round draft picks. For Anthony Davis.

Bucks Trade: Khris Middleton ( Expiring), Thon Maker, Malcolm Brogdon and Brook Lopez (expiring).

Being a Laker fan I can't fairly give my opinion, so what do you all think?

KCP has a trade veto, can say no to any trade.