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NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread
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ButtersSuki wrote: »Celtics will make Tatum available. He’s gone backwards. I can’t see them not making him available when the prize is AD.
Gone backwards might be a bit strong, I think he hasn't pushed on just yet, his role with Kyrie back in the team is completely different, he hasn't got the ball in his hands as much but is chucking the ball up more. Before the season started the Celtics beat writers and people like Bill Simmons kept saying that Davis is the Guy Ainge will pull the trigger on and in every single conversation it was always talked about a big Three with Kyrie, Davis and Tatum. The Celtics would be crazy to let Tatum go if Davis doesn't give anything less than 100% guarantee that he re signs. In my opinion Brown, Smart, Semi, Terry and picks do not have the same upside as Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP and picks. Now if you are right and Tatum becomes part of the trade then the Celtics will land Davis but I don't think they are going to include him and I think Ainge is going to do what Ainge does, he is going to make promises to the Pelicans that Tatum will be available in the summer and when it gets to the summer he is going to pull Tatum from the deal and hope that the picks as well as Brown and others will be enough.0 -
ButtersSuki wrote: »KCP has a trade veto, can say no to any trade.
KCP won't say no because he wants to up his trade value wherever he goes and New Orleans would give him alot of playing time, also Rich Paul is KCP's agent so if Rich Paul says "KCP your going to New Orleans" you better believe he is going to New Orleans.0 -
Gone backwards might be a bit strong, I think he hasn't pushed on just yet, his role with Kyrie back in the team is completely different, he hasn't got the ball in his hands as much but is chucking the ball up more. Before the season started the Celtics beat writers and people like Bill Simmons kept saying that Davis is the Guy Ainge will pull the trigger on and in every single conversation it was always talked about a big Three with Kyrie, Davis and Tatum. The Celtics would be crazy to let Tatum go if Davis doesn't give anything less than 100% guarantee that he re signs. In my opinion Brown, Smart, Semi, Terry and picks do not have the same upside as Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP and picks. Now if you are right and Tatum becomes part of the trade then the Celtics will land Davis but I don't think they are going to include him and I think Ainge is going to do what Ainge does, he is going to make promises to the Pelicans that Tatum will be available in the summer and when it gets to the summer he is going to pull Tatum from the deal and hope that the picks as well as Brown and others will be enough.
Celtics lifer here, that was the talk ay the start of the season sure; Simmons has recently said he’s gone backwards, and when asked on Monday if he would trade him he said yes. Same with McMullan. Same with Ryan. I haven’t heard one writer since Monday say no to including Tatum in a trade for Davis.0 -
KCP won't say no because he wants to up his trade value wherever he goes and New Orleans would give him alot of playing time, also Rich Paul is KCP's agent so if Rich Paul says "KCP your going to New Orleans" you better believe he is going to New Orleans.
Well LeBron’s comments a few weeks back around the Korver trade indicate KCP isn’t playing ball.0 -
Lakers trade: Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, Kentavious Cauldwell Pope ( Expiring) and Three unprotected 1st round picks (2019,2021,2023) for Anthony Davis.
I just don't see this, 8 players for one, with essentially 7 of them, when you include the picks, being young/cheap contracts.0 -
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I don't believe the Lakers are willing to sacrifice that much for Davis. I don't suspect anyone is untradeable but outside of the fact that I don't think Davis is quite worth that haul of players, they're also in the advantageous position of knowing that they are AD's preferred location.
The primary issue for the Lakers is time, they need to acquire Davis asap in order to maximize the remaining years LBJ has at an elite level.
Given how shrewd Ainge has been in recent years, unless he is fully convinced that AD will resign, he won't give up an asset like Tatum. Ainge won't roll the dice the way OKC & Raptors did, though the assets they gave up weren't quite the price they would have to pay for Davis.
Further to the discussion, I wouldn't be concerned with Tatum, he made fantastic strides in the playoffs and although he hasn't continued that momentum quite in the same vain,
his raw regular season numbers are still better than last year while advanced are slightly worse.
The 2nd year lull often happens, Mitchell for example is going through similar. I wouldn't be particularly concerned, Tatum is still one of the most coveted young players in league at this stage and would certainly be the centerpiece of an AD trade if he was to be included.0 -
Breaking in US now: Kyrie wants out of Boston and to join AD and LeBron in LA.
I’m not joking btw!0 -
I think Boston will need to let NOLA know their full trade offer before the deadline in order for NOLA to hold AD til the summer. Yeah once we get to the summer Boston can make a huge offer, but every other team's offer probably goes down. Right now if you get AD you have him guaranteed for 2 playoff runs before his contract is up, wait until the summer and it's only 1 playoff run with him. That extra run is worth a lot, especially to teams who are worried about him not re-signing with them.0
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ButtersSuki wrote: »Breaking in US now: Kyrie wants out of Boston and to join AD and LeBron in LA.
I’m not joking btw!
Hahaha!
Despite his phone call last week I’m sure Kyrie has burnt his bridges with LeBron after what happened in Cleveland.0 -
ButtersSuki wrote: »Breaking in US now: Kyrie wants out of Boston and to join AD and LeBron in LA.
I’m not joking btw!
I seen that yesterday, supposedly Kyrie isn't willing to work with the young guys on the Celtics long term and wants to maximize his chances at rings by joining with players in their prime. If the Celtics can land Davis then that changes things but if Davis states he will only sign with the Lakers which is meant to be coming soon then Kyrie could be gone.0 -
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Can't see Celtics trading Jaylen Brown unless he's made it clear he wants to leave. He's one of the best prospects in the league.0
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chopperbyrne wrote: »Can't see Celtics trading Jaylen Brown unless he's made it clear he wants to leave. He's one of the best prospects in the league.
Brown isn't even the best prospect on his team.0 -
chopperbyrne wrote: »Can't see Celtics trading Jaylen Brown unless he's made it clear he wants to leave. He's one of the best prospects in the league.
Danny Ainge would trade one of his own kids as an add on, let alone a player. Look at how he/the Celtics treated Isiah Thomas. He was an MVP candidate, played a Play Off game a couple of days after his sister died, had teetchy nocked out in another Play Off game, played the Play Offs injured to the degree where he did so much damage physically he went from being a Max to a minimum salary contract in less than 18months. The way they treated him was cold - and I say that as a fan.
Whilst there were noises made about Tautm being untradeable earlier this year, if AD is the prize you trade whoever and whatever you need to trade to get him. You can replace a Tatum far, far easier than get a talent like Davis. Anyone who thinks Tatum is a deal-breaker is deluded IMO.
The only person they wouldn't trade is Kyrie, and that's because the plan was to have a league leading PG (which Kyrie is) join AD.
If however, Kyrie says he wants out LeBron will have gained 2 top 10 league talents, and destroyed Boston in one fell swoop. Evil genius stuff.0 -
ButtersSuki wrote: »Danny Ainge would trade one of his own kids as an add on, let alone a player. Look at how he/the Celtics treated Isiah Thomas. He was an MVP candidate, played a Play Off game a couple of days after his sister died, had teetchy nocked out in another Play Off game, played the Play Offs injured to the degree where he did so much damage physically he went from being a Max to a minimum salary contract in less than 18months. The way they treated him was cold - and I say that as a fan.
Whilst there were noises made about Tautm being untradeable earlier this year, if AD is the prize you trade whoever and whatever you need to trade to get him. You can replace a Tatum far, far easier than get a talent like Davis. Anyone who thinks Tatum is a deal-breaker is deluded IMO.
The only person they wouldn't trade is Kyrie, and that's because the plan was to have a league leading PG (which Kyrie is) join AD.
If however, Kyrie says he wants out LeBron will have gained 2 top 10 league talents, and destroyed Boston in one fell swoop. Evil genius stuff.
If I'm Anthony Davis this is the simple question. Would I rather play with Kyrie in Boston or would I rather go to LA were I already own a home, to play with Lebron and if the Kyrie rumours are to be believe it would be Davis, Kyrie and Lebron.
People can say that Lebron doesn't want to lose a season of his prime this year not winning but I can tell you now that Woj, Bill Simmons, Shams Charania and Brian Windhorst have all reported that Lebron came to LA under the pretense that this is a year in which the Lakers see what they have with their young core (hoping that one or more make a big leap) and that next season they would be making moves for a star whether in Free Agency or by trade. Their hope was that they keep all the young guys and get someone like Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, DeMarcus Cousins or Klay Thompson to join Lebron in Free Agency.
If the Lakers can pull off the trade before the deadline then I think the dominoes begin to fall for the Lakers.0 -
If I'm Anthony Davis this is the simple question. Would I rather play with Kyrie in Boston or would I rather go to LA were I already own a home, to play with Lebron and if the Kyrie rumours are to be believe it would be Davis, Kyrie and Lebron.
Yeah, but that's not his decision. Even if he says "I'm only signing with the Lakers" he can be traded to anyone bar Boston in the next 9 days and will be stuck there until July 2020. Some teams will gamble on a year and half rental in the hope they keep him. Boston would likely be gambling on a 1 year but assuming they have a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" deal agreed beforehand. LA have 9 days to sort this IMO, or else he won't be there until 2020.0 -
ButtersSuki wrote:Danny Ainge would trade one of his own kids as an add on, let alone a player. Look at how he/the Celtics treated Isiah Thomas. He was an MVP candidate, played a Play Off game a couple of days after his sister died, had teetchy nocked out in another Play Off game, played the Play Offs injured to the degree where he did so much damage physically he went from being a Max to a minimum salary contract in less than 18months. The way they treated him was cold - and I say that as a fan.
And the amazing thing is that Thomas still harbours very positive feelings towards Boston as a city, and the Celtics . At the time of his sister's passing, I thought it was an incredibly selfless thing to play. I also wasn't in the least bit surprised that they traded him. Sports fans in certain codes are usually accused quite rightly of being fickle but sometimes the same can be said of management.0 -
And the amazing thing is that Thomas still harbours very positive feelings towards Boston as a city, and the Celtics . At the time of his sister's passing, I thought it was an incredibly selfless thing to play. I also wasn't in the least bit surprised that they traded him. Sports fans in certain codes are usually accused quite rightly of being fickle but sometimes the same can be said of management.
Now maybe, not at the time. He didn't talk to Ainge for a long time.
I think they did the right thing to trade him and said so at the time. The manner in which it was done however was just brutally cold.0 -
ButtersSuki wrote: »Yeah, but that's not his decision. Even if he says "I'm only signing with the Lakers" he can be traded to anyone bar Boston in the next 9 days and will be stuck there until July 2020. Some teams will gamble on a year and half rental in the hope they keep him. Boston would likely be gambling on a 1 year but assuming they have a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" deal agreed beforehand. LA have 9 days to sort this IMO, or else he won't be there until 2020.
No team will mortgage their entire teams future on a maybe chance with Davis unless they know for certain he stays. The Raptors didn't risk their entire teams future for Leonard they gave up DeRozan an Poetl. The Thunder didn't either they gave up Victor Oladipo and Sabonis. Both teams still had established stars before and after the trade. It is going to take a Kings Ransom to land Davis and not many teams can afford that, even less can make that trade and field a competitive team beside AD and even less can entice AD to stay long term.
Davis and Rich Paul know this fact and Paul will make sure that other teams know that AD will not sign a long term deal with them. The ball is in Davis court, at the end of the day if he really wants to go somewhere he can wait til he is a free agent and go there or he can allow his team he is with now or in the summer to get a good haul for him. The main reason Paul George didn't become a Laker was that he was pissed off that they didn't make much of an effort to land him and bet on getting him in Free Agency. The Lakers will not make that mistake again and will go all out to land AD.0 -
No team will mortgage their entire teams future on a maybe chance with Davis unless they know for certain he stays. The Raptors didn't risk their entire teams future for Leonard they gave up DeRozan an Poetl. The Thunder didn't either they gave up Victor Oladipo and Sabonis. Both teams still had established stars before and after the trade. It is going to take a Kings Ransom to land Davis and not many teams can afford that, even less can make that trade and field a competitive team beside AD and even less can entice AD to stay long term.
Davis and Rich Paul know this fact and Paul will make sure that other teams know that AD will not sign a long term deal with them. The ball is in Davis court, at the end of the day if he really wants to go somewhere he can wait til he is a free agent and go there or he can allow his team he is with now or in the summer to get a good haul for him. The main reason Paul George didn't become a Laker was that he was pissed off that they didn't make much of an effort to land him and bet on getting him in Free Agency. The Lakers will not make that mistake again and will go all out to land AD.
Yeah, and NO don't have to nor will likely want to do any favours for LA - and why should they? They've been effectively bullied into a position here by Paul and Bron, and I would expect some resntment on that from the NO side. They could decide that they'd rather have (for example) Denver's assets than LA's. Or NY's. And so on.
Someone will be willing to gamble, I have no doubt about that. Whether NO will bite is the real question.0 -
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ButtersSuki wrote: »Yeah, and NO don't have to nor will likely want to do any favours for LA - and why should they? They've been effectively bullied into a position here by Paul and Bron, and I would expect some resntment on that from the NO side. They could decide that they'd rather have (for example) Denver's assets than LA's. Or NY's. And so on.
Someone will be willing to gamble, I have no doubt about that. Whether NO will bite is the real question.
Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, KCP and Three to Four unprotected first round draft picks seems like it would be a fair offer for Davis, No one would say that the Pelicans got screwed in that deal. They would have three players under contract next season, can sign KCP and Zubac at a relatively good price and will still have three or four first round picks.
I'm fairly sure that Anthony Davis can speak for himself, he doesn't come across as someone who is easily led and I think he said it best, he doesn't care about money he just wants to win rings. Joining Lebron and Kyrie helps him do that.
The Pelicans can make any trade they want, they are well within their right to do that but you better believe that Davis is going to make it known through Rich Paul to any potential suitors that if you trade for him and he doesn't want to be their then this is strictly a rental.0 -
ButtersSuki wrote: »You think LeBron wouldn't take Kyrie?
Honestly, I don’t.
I think he’s dealt with enough issues because of him over the last few years and will feel him, AD and AN other could get it done.
The last thing LeBron needs while trying to turn that franchise into contenders again is a man child with leadership and authority problems.
Kyrie can say all he wants about learning about how hard it is to be a leader blah, blah, blah, but as soon as he’s forced to take a back seat again the issues will re-surface.
If he does go there, it will end in tears.0 -
Honestly, I don’t.
I think he’s dealt with enough issues because of him over the last few years and will feel him, AD and AN other could get it done.
The last thing LeBron needs while trying to turn that franchise into contenders again is a man child with leadership and authority problems.
Kyrie can say all he wants about learning about how hard it is to be a leader blah, blah, blah, but as soon as he’s forced to take a back seat again the issues will re-surface.
If he does go there, it will end in tears.
Did you see the video last week?0 -
Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Ivica Zubac, KCP and Three to Four unprotected first round draft picks seems like it would be a fair offer for Davis, No one would say that the Pelicans got screwed in that deal. They would have three players under contract next season, can sign KCP and Zubac at a relatively good price and will still have three or four first round picks.
I'm fairly sure that Anthony Davis can speak for himself, he doesn't come across as someone who is easily led and I think he said it best, he doesn't care about money he just wants to win rings. Joining Lebron and Kyrie helps him do that.
The Pelicans can make any trade they want, they are well within their right to do that but you better believe that Davis is going to make it known through Rich Paul to any potential suitors that if you trade for him and he doesn't want to be their then this is strictly a rental.
Yes, that would be a more than fair deal but it's not a deal that would ever transpire. If other teams are unwilling to pay a King's Ransom for Davis then the price the Lakers will be forced to pay decreases.
Furthermore, no team irrespective of the probability of Davis re-signing with them would be willing to part with anything close to what you've suggested 3-4 picks, two top-2 picks in Lonzo/Ingram, a valuable expiring contract plus two guys in Kuzma & Zubac who are likely to be long-term pieces in the league.
I can't think of a trade in the NBA since the early 90's that has resulted in such a return?0 -
Yes, that would be a more than fair deal but it's not a deal that would ever transpire. If other teams are unwilling to pay a King's Ransom for Davis then the price the Lakers will be forced to pay decreases.
Furthermore, no team irrespective of the probability of Davis re-signing with them would be willing to part with anything close to what you've suggested 3-4 picks, two top-2 picks in Lonzo/Ingram, a valuable expiring contract plus two guys in Kuzma & Zubac who are likely to be long-term pieces in the league.
I can't think of a trade in the NBA since the early 90's that has resulted in such a return?
In the first report by Brad Turner of the LA times it was said that for the Pelican's to even pick up the phone the Lakers would have to offer Ball, Kuzma, Zubac and a first. If that was the actual deal then the Lakers would have gotten it done by now. I don't expect a deal to be reached at this point now. According to Woj, Dell Demps the Pelicans GM won't answer the phone and won't entertain any offers from the Lakers and is ok with waiting til the summer to see what other teams like the Knicks and Celtics can offer.
If the Knicks offer Porzingis and a high draft pick then I think they take that, If the Celtics offer Tatum, Smart, Rozier, Brown and picks then they probably would accept that too. I think the Lakers offer is very strong if it was Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP and picks. It all depends on how hard David and Rich Paul are willing to push. if they are willing to sign with the Knicks or Celtics as well as the Lakers then it could be hard for LA to land him but we shall see what happens.0 -
In the first report by Brad Turner of the LA times it was said that for the Pelican's to even pick up the phone the Lakers would have to offer Ball, Kuzma, Zubac and a first. If that was the actual deal then the Lakers would have gotten it done by now. I don't expect a deal to be reached at this point now. According to Woj, Dell Demps the Pelicans GM won't answer the phone and won't entertain any offers from the Lakers and is ok with waiting til the summer to see what other teams like the Knicks and Celtics can offer.
If the Knicks offer Porzingis and a high draft pick then I think they take that, If the Celtics offer Tatum, Smart, Rozier, Brown and picks then they probably would accept that too. I think the Lakers offer is very strong if it was Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Zubac, KCP and picks. It all depends on how hard David and Rich Paul are willing to push. if they are willing to sign with the Knicks or Celtics as well as the Lakers then it could be hard for LA to land him but we shall see what happens.
Yes, that's precisely my point, that offer from the Lakers would be unnecessarily strong. They will never offer that because they are in such an advantageous position thus far.
I imagine they are somewhat confident that if Davis pushes hard enough they may not even have to give up the trade proposed by the LA times.
Their offer will largely come down to what Boston is willing to part with which in turn will be dependent upon their confidence that Davis will re-sign.
If they think he will not re-sign, Tatum is off the table and Brown likely is too, therefore driving down what the Lakers are forced to part with.
Even if Davis informed them he's willing to re-sign there is absolutely no scenario where Boston parts with Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Smart & picks?? You must be joking.
My suspicion is this deal gets done for pennies on the dollar in the summer assuming Boston and anyone else interested confirm that Davis will only re-sign with the Lakers0 -
Yes, that's precisely my point, that offer from the Lakers would be unnecessarily strong. They will never offer that because they are in such an advantageous position thus far.
I imagine they are somewhat confident that if Davis pushes hard enough they may not even have to give up the trade proposed by the LA times.
Their offer will largely come down to what Boston is willing to part with which in turn will be dependent upon their confidence that Davis will re-sign.
If they think he will not re-sign, Tatum is off the table and Brown likely is too, therefore driving down what the Lakers are forced to part with.
Even if Davis informed them he's willing to re-sign there is absolutely no scenario where Boston parts with Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Smart & picks?? You must be joking.
My suspicion is this deal gets done for pennies on the dollar in the summer assuming Boston and anyone else interested confirm that Davis will only re-sign with the Lakers
But the fact that Davis is willing to sign with the Knicks long term also means that the market is still going to be relatively strong. I just read a report that the Pelicans are thinking about sitting Davis for the rest of the season if a trade isn't agreed to improve their chances at getting a high draft pick. To be honest I don't begrudge the Pelicans at all for holding onto Davis. New Orleans is a football town and I think if they lose Davis they could possibly lose the team to another city. Somewhere like Seattle is begging for a team.
Davis is a generational talent and is only 25. The Pelicans are holding out because they want a bidding war in the summer and if the Knicks land the top pick or a top 3 pick then the Pelicans will have three teams that are in direct competition and the price goes up and up.0 -
But the fact that Davis is willing to sign with the Knicks long term also means that the market is still going to be relatively strong. I just read a report that the Pelicans are thinking about sitting Davis for the rest of the season if a trade isn't agreed to improve their chances at getting a high draft pick. To be honest I don't begrudge the Pelicans at all for holding onto Davis. New Orleans is a football town and I think if they lose Davis they could possibly lose the team to another city. Somewhere like Seattle is begging for a team.
Davis is a generational talent and is only 25. The Pelicans are holding out because they want a bidding war in the summer and if the Knicks land the top pick or a top 3 pick then the Pelicans will have three teams that are in direct competition and the price goes up and up.
He's generational, no doubts whatsoever but there's an abundance of variables to consider; Two of yhe primary ones that immediately spring to mind
are he's going to be a free agent irrespective of who trades for him and the promises he makes there still carry inherent risk that he will change his mind, take Dwight with Lakers as an example.
Also, he may be a generational perennial MVP candidate but he averages 68 games per season up until the start of this season. He is not the most robust player and I suspect that given a lot of his time missed is not quite due to acute injuries but those more attributable to wear & tear that questions exist around his durability moving forward.
I don't doubt that additional suitors will increase the price that he commands but irrespective of the amount of suitors, Boston or LA are never parting with the packages you proposed because Davis on a one year deal is not worth them.0 -
He's generational, no doubts whatsoever but there's an abundance of variables to consider; Two of yhe primary ones that immediately spring to mind
are he's going to be a free agent irrespective of who trades for him and the promises he makes there still carry inherent risk that he will change his mind, take Dwight with Lakers as an example.
Also, he may be a generational perennial MVP candidate but he averages 68 games per season up until the start of this season. He is not the most robust player and I suspect that given a lot of his time missed is not quite due to acute injuries but those more attributable to wear & tear that questions exist around his durability moving forward.
I don't doubt that additional suitors will increase the price that he commands but irrespective of the amount of suitors, Boston or LA are never parting with the packages you proposed because Davis on a one year deal is not worth them.
I would love if the Lakers got Davis for cents on the dollar. I would love if we could keep some of our young guys and picks, I just think the Lakers will want to shut down any chance of Boston or New York getting Davis in the summer by offering a monster deal that in turn will make a third star want to come to LA and play with them like Kyrie, Klay or even Kawhi ( very much doubt Kawhi becomes a Laker)0 -
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Woj reporting tonight that KP wants away from the Knicks.0
This discussion has been closed.
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