NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

ButtersSuki

Sources: Clippers and Sixers have agreed to trade Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanovic, Mike Scott for Landry Shamet, Wilson Chandler, Mike Muscala, 2020 first-rounder, 2021 unprotected 1st via Miami and two second rounders.

Paully D

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1093050654589927424?s=21

76ers are going for it!

Never a better time either with the state of the East.

Hitch2222

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Per Woj:
Sources: Clippers and Sixers have agreed to trade Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanovic, Mike Scott for Landry Shamet, Wilson Chandler, Mike Muscala, 2020 first-rounder, 2021 unprotected 1st via Miami and two second rounders.

Gives Philly a serious starting five, also allows Clips flexibility to get involved in the Davis sweepstakes (it'd be hilarious if Davis and Kawhi ended up there just to see Lakers fans heads explode)

I think the Clippers are in a fantastic situation moving forward. They're obviously in a very advantageous position given they're in LA so that allure exists but they have an owner who although a bit nuts is a very intelligent person who's willing to invest multiple ways.
He's surrounded himself with a great staff most recognisably The Logo who had influence in building the GSW dynasty.
They blew it up straight away when they realised Blake couldn't lead the team, they let Jordan go too when they knew his game wasn't suited to the trajectory of the league. They clearly have a desire not to remain in perpetual mediocrity so it wouldn't surprise me if they made a splash this summer and in large part they deserve it for such shrewd decisions.

Paully D

I see the Lakers are on the road to the Celtics and 76ers, along with hosting the Rockets, in 3 of their next 4.

Then at the start of next month they’ve got a 5 game stretch in which they have the Clippers, Nuggets, Celtics, Bulls (:pac:) and Raptors :eek:

ButtersSuki

Paully D wrote: »

I see the Lakers are on the road to the Celtics and 76ers, along with hosting the Rockets, in 3 of their next 4.

Then at the start of next month they’ve got a 5 game stretch in which they have the Clippers, Nuggets, Celtics, Bulls (:pac:) and Raptors :eek:

They should beat the Bulls.....should.

jonok28

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I think the Clippers are in a fantastic situation moving forward. They're obviously in a very advantageous position given they're in LA so that allure exists but they have an owner who although a bit nuts is a very intelligent person who's willing to invest multiple ways.
He's surrounded himself with a great staff most recognisably The Logo who had influence in building the GSW dynasty.
They blew it up straight away when they realised Blake couldn't lead the team, they let Jordan go too when they knew his game wasn't suited to the trajectory of the league. They clearly have a desire not to remain in perpetual mediocrity so it wouldn't surprise me if they made a splash this summer and in large part they deserve it for such shrewd decisions.

They have definitely set themselves up very well but I think the market isn't going to be big. Durant is probably going to the Knicks, Kyrie either goes to New York or stays in Boston, Kawhi is their most likely player but I think he stays in Toronto, its the perfect city for him, With the Harris trade the Sixers have a big 4 and can compete in the East for years to come. So the top end market dries up really quick, thats why the Lakers are tried to get a deal done for Davis.

And no one get me started on the Clippers going after Davis via trade, they don't have the trade pieces to beat the Lakers or Celtics and they don't have a first this year and the only good pick they have is the Miami Pick in 2021.

ButtersSuki

That trade makes an already physically huge Philly core even bigger (height and width wise). Embiid, Simmons, Butler and Harris? Wow.

irishguitarlad

ButtersSuki wrote: »

That trade makes an already physically huge Philly core even bigger (height and width wise). Embiid, Simmons, Butler and Harris? Wow.

It's an insane starting five, Simmons, reddick, Butler, Harris and Embiid. If everyones healthy, they should win the east.

ButtersSuki

irishguitarlad wrote: »

It's an insane starting five, Simmons, reddick, Butler, Harris and Embiid. If everyones healthy, they should win the east.

Reddick will look like an U-15 allowed to play with the men’s team compared to the others. They’re going for it big time, I’d agree they have to be favourites for the East now, although I wouldn’t see them as huge favourites per se.. Will be interesting to see how many problems they could cause for GS though. The size is insane.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Reddick will look like an U-15 allowed to play with the men’s team compared to the others. They’re going for it big time, I’d agree they have to be favourites for the East now, although I wouldn’t see them as huge favourites per se.. Will be interesting to see how many problems they could cause for GS though. The size is insane.

The primary added value of this trade for the Sixers rests on Harris's improved 3pt shot which shouldn't be much of an outlier given he shot over 40% last year too.

The additional spacing should offer Simmons, Embiid & Butler the ability to excel even further, it's a perfect acquisition for them.

Boban & Embiid will be undoubtably a hilarious friendship, Harris should help appease Butler given the extra spacing but someone is going to have to leave some money on the table because the Clippers indicated that Harris is close to a max player and so is Butler.

Timeline isn't too bad either as Harris is only 26. I wonder what the deal with Fultz is, was he excluded by the Sixers or did the Clippers simply not have interest in him.

jonok28

Hitch2222 wrote: »

The primary added value of this trade for the Sixers rests on Harris's improved 3pt shot which shouldn't be much of an outlier given he shot over 40% last year too.

The additional spacing should offer Simmons, Embiid & Butler the ability to excel even further, it's a perfect acquisition for them.

Boban & Embiid will be undoubtably a hilarious friendship, Harris should help appease Butler given the extra spacing but someone is going to have to leave some money on the table because the Clippers indicated that Harris is close to a max player and so is Butler.

Timeline isn't too bad either as Harris is only 26. I wonder what the deal with Fultz is, was he excluded by the Sixers or did the Clippers simply not have interest in him.

I think the 76ers are hoping that Fultz is going to be able to fix his shot and contribute, currently his stock is rock bottom and there is no way they get any value in trading him right now. This was a great trade for the 6ers, If I'm Boston I'm worried about the 6ers, Raptors and Bucks, not an easy route to the finals at all.

Osmosis Jones

I'm very high on Harris, thought he was gonna be an All Star this year, but that seems like an overpay for a guy who can potentially walk this summer.

ButtersSuki

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I'm very high on Harris, thought he was gonna be an All Star this year, but that seems like an overpay for a guy who can potentially walk this summer.

You don’t usually make deals like that unless you have the nod. I’d imagine they had a conversation.

damowill

The Sixers starting five looks awesome now, it will be interesting to see how they gel. Jimmy has come in, and can you really say they are better with him than Saric/Covington? Results dont show it yet imo.

IBrows89

irishguitarlad wrote: »

It's an insane starting five, Simmons, reddick, Butler, Harris and Embiid. If everyones healthy, they should win the east.

But what about Markelle Fultz!!

jonok28

I'm listening to the Ringer NBA show at the moment and finally someone has called out how much the rest of the NBA is devaluing the Lakers young players. Russell is now an All Star with the Nets and Julius Randle is averaging 20 and 10 with the Pelicans, yes the Lakers have been guilty of not fully valuing their young players and have been too focused on clearing cap space for big free agents but the rest of the league seems to be devaluing the Lakers players at every opportunity. Kevin O'Connor on the podcast mentioned that the deal Boston would probably put forth would be Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams and picks. Chris Vernon said how is that more substantial then the Lakers offer? Going onto say that Tatum has plateaued a bit and isn't significantly better than Ingram with both players being very similar in age, That Lonzo is still a young prospect who could be special and that while Kyle Kuzma might never make a All Star Team he is a very good young player who had a fantastic rookie season and has built upon it. The Lakers are willing to hand over Ingram, Lonzo, Kuzma, KCP, Zubac and Hart, offer 2 firsts and take back a salary dump and it isn't enough.

I do apologise about constantly bringing up the Lakers and I will most certainly dial it back after the trade deadline.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I'm listening to the Ringer NBA show at the moment and finally someone has called out how much the rest of the NBA is devaluing the Lakers young players. Russell is now an All Star with the Nets and Julius Randle is averaging 20 and 10 with the Pelicans, yes the Lakers have been guilty of not fully valuing their young players and have been too focused on clearing cap space for big free agents but the rest of the league seems to be devaluing the Lakers players at every opportunity. Kevin O'Connor on the podcast mentioned that the deal Boston would probably put forth would be Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams and picks. Chris Vernon said how is that more substantial then the Lakers offer? Going onto say that Tatum has plateaued a bit and isn't significantly better than Ingram with both players being very similar in age, That Lonzo is still a young prospect who could be special and that while Kyle Kuzma might never make a All Star Team he is a very good young player who had a fantastic rookie season and has built upon it. The Lakers are willing to hand over Ingram, Lonzo, Kuzma, KCP, Zubac and Hart, offer 2 firsts and take back a salary dump and it isn't enough.

I do apologise about constantly bringing up the Lakers and I will most certainly dial it back after the trade deadline.

Look at it this way - if they’re so that good and in the case of the players they’ve already shipped over the past few years and even sons are All Star level then why didn’t they keep them and get are they in trade talks now? So once more we get excuses for LeBron and the Lakers.

If there’s something culturally wrong with LA that they can’t maximise the talent’s potential while it’s in LA then that’s on LA.

Have to laugh at LeBron’s post game last night telling the ginger pkayers not to be in social media right now - get off it yourself then - posting messages to Kyrie, calm before the storm etc.

LeExcuse.

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Look at it this way - if they’re so that good and in the case of the players they’ve already shipped over the past few years and even sons are All Star level then why didn’t they keep them and get are they in trade talks now? So once more we get excuses for LeBron and the Lakers.

If there’s something culturally wrong with LA that they can’t maximise the talent’s potential while it’s in LA then that’s on LA.

Have to laugh at LeBron’s post game last night telling the ginger pkayers not to be in social media right now - get off it yourself then - posting messages to Kyrie, calm before the storm etc.

LeExcuse.

Russell was used to get rid of Mozgov's deal off the books which helped the Lakers land Lebron, we also received a pick in that trade that turned out to be Kyle Kuzma. Julius Randle left in free agency because his Agent Aaron Mintz was deeply upset about the Lakers trading his other client D'Angelo Russell and not making a big effort to land Paul George (Also a Mintz client) via trade when he would be available in the summer for free, he was also upset that the Lakers did not extend Randle before the contract extension deadline, this was done to maximize the chances of the Lakers landing two free agents. After this happen Mintz made it clear that Julius wouldn't sign for a year contract and that he wanted to go elsewhere, the Lakers agreed to this and made him unrestricted.

Let's be honest, the spotlight in LA is always bright, its hard for any player to come to LA and meet expectations let alone young players who are expected to come in and be Superstars right away, it's an unfair standard in LA but it does happen. That's why the Lakers in the past have always preferred experienced Vets and battle tested Superstars to carry them as they are capable of dealing with the weight of expectation.

The Warriors were able to develop Curry, Thompson and Draymond without the watchful eye of social media and mainstream media. Now they are a juggernaut who is redefining the current area of basketball.

Regarding Lebron and the rest of the players, Magic Johnson has put him in a very bad position, Magic is an amateur when it comes to negotiations in an NBA capacity, he has had no problem leaking info news outlets to put pressure on the Pelicans but didn't think about what would happen if the deal didn't get done and more than half of your roster knows that you have put them up for sale. Lebron clearly does want Davis to help him win more rings and after his recent injury there is even more of a rush to get it done. I think Magic and Pelinka should be taking more of the blame then Lebron but Lebron does deserve a share of the blame too.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

Russell was used to get rid of Mozgov's deal off the books which helped the Lakers land Lebron, we also received a pick in that trade that turned out to be Kyle Kuzma. Julius Randle left in free agency because his Agent Aaron Mintz was deeply upset about the Lakers trading his other client D'Angelo Russell and not making a big effort to land Paul George (Also a Mintz client) via trade when he would be available in the summer for free, he was also upset that the Lakers did not extend Randle before the contract extension deadline, this was done to maximize the chances of the Lakers landing two free agents. After this happen Mintz made it clear that Julius wouldn't sign for a year contract and that he wanted to go elsewhere, the Lakers agreed to this and made him unrestricted.

Let's be honest, the spotlight in LA is always bright, its hard for any player to come to LA and meet expectations let alone young players who are expected to come in and be Superstars right away, it's an unfair standard in LA but it does happen. That's why the Lakers in the past have always preferred experienced Vets and battle tested Superstars to carry them as they are capable of dealing with the weight of expectation.

The Warriors were able to develop Curry, Thompson and Draymond without the watchful eye of social media and mainstream media. Now they are a juggernaut who is redefining the current area of basketball.

Regarding Lebron and the rest of the players, Magic Johnson has put him in a very bad position, Magic is an amateur when it comes to negotiations in an NBA capacity, he has had no problem leaking info news outlets to put pressure on the Pelicans but didn't think about what would happen if the deal didn't get done and more than half of your roster knows that you have put them up for sale. Lebron clearly does want Davis to help him win more rings and after his recent injury there is even more of a rush to get it done. I think Magic and Pelinka should be taking more of the blame then Lebron but Lebron does deserve a share of the blame too.

Do you honestly think LeBron didn’t approve every single offseason move last summer? And probably before then.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Look at it this way - if they’re so that good and in the case of the players they’ve already shipped over the past few years and even sons are All Star level then why didn’t they keep them and get are they in trade talks now? So once more we get excuses for LeBron and the Lakers.

If there’s something culturally wrong with LA that they can’t maximise the talent’s potential while it’s in LA then that’s on LA.

Have to laugh at LeBron’s post game last night telling the ginger pkayers not to be in social media right now - get off it yourself then - posting messages to Kyrie, calm before the storm etc.

LeExcuse.

I don't quite understand how any aspect of the statement from Jono or the perception clearly shared by some commentators demonstrates excuses for the Lakers?

Russell has clearly outperformed his trade value while Randle has performed above and beyond his contract. I don't think anyone is making excuses for the Lakers, it's simply fact and I largely agree that the perception of the value of their package for Davis is somewhat strange.

I largely agree that the Lakers package is dismissed as not nearly as valuable as that of Boston even though I think it is.

I think that is due to multiple reasons.

Obviously the hype around Lonzo was exceptionally great even though he was far from the finished article, had an unusual shooting technique, largely outclassed by Fox in college and had substantial baggage with his father.
However, although his shooting still leaves a lot to be desired, he's shooting 33% from 3pt range, his FG% has improved, his passing is as advertised while his best asset has probably been his defensive abilities.

Furthermore, Ingram must deal with the inevitable comparisions in production to Simmons who has obviously been a revelation.
Murray & Brown have outperformed him too but I still question whether either have demonstrated a ceiling quite as high as Ingram.

Therefore, the Lakers have 2 young players who are being compared with Tatum & Brown. I'd largely compare Hart/Zubac/Kuzma with Rozier/Smart in terms of percieved LT expectations.
Imo Tatum is the only one who has a higher ceiling than either player and if both Lakers are being included, that is a better package than if Boston includes Tatum, Rozier, Smart & what is likely two Top 10 picks from Memphis plus whatever filler.
This is largely due to the fact that a Top 10 pick as The Ringer states "In the lottery era, according to DraftExpress’s tabulation, about half of players picked in the 6-10 range never become consistent starters, let alone All-Stars or better, while more than two-thirds of players picked 11-15th never do."
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/2/5/18211132/trade-future-first-round-pick-value-kristaps-porzingis-new-york-knicks

My point is people place significant value on draft picks but the actual return from those picks is not nearly as high as one might think, an aspect of the Boston package which is in doubts greater than the Lakers.
Availability bias often contributes to the misconception that a 1st round draft pick offers the best return but imo I think that is somewhat overvalued and this seems like one of those scenarios.

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Do you honestly think LeBron didn’t approve every single offseason move last summer? And probably before then.

I think he was definitely consulted on which players they were going to sign. But no I don't think he was barking orders. If he was he would have chosen to surround himself with 4 shooters like he has done in every single team he has won with.

Magic and Pelinka put forth an idea on how to beat the Warriors and to take the strain off of Lebron and he gave his blessing towards it.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I don't quite understand how any aspect of the statement from Jono or the perception clearly shared by some commentators demonstrates excuses for the Lakers?

Russell has clearly outperformed his trade value while Randle has performed above and beyond his contract. I don't think anyone is making excuses for the Lakers, it's simply fact and I largely agree that the perception of the value of their package for Davis is somewhat strange.

I largely agree that the Lakers package is dismissed as not nearly as valuable as that of Boston even though I think it is.

I think that is due to multiple reasons.

Obviously the hype around Lonzo was exceptionally great even though he was far from the finished article, had an unusual shooting technique, largely outclassed by Fox in college and had substantial baggage with his father.
However, although his shooting still leaves a lot to be desired, he's shooting 33% from 3pt range, his FG% has improved, his passing is as advertised while his best asset has probably been his defensive abilities.

Furthermore, Ingram must deal with the inevitable comparisions in production to Simmons who has obviously been a revelation.
Murray & Brown have outperformed him too but I still question whether either have demonstrated a ceiling quite as high as Ingram.

Therefore, the Lakers have 2 young players who are being compared with Tatum & Brown. I'd largely compare Hart/Zubac/Kuzma with Rozier/Smart in terms of percieved LT expectations.
Imo Tatum is the only one who has a higher ceiling than either player and if both Lakers are being included, that is a better package than if Boston includes Tatum, Rozier, Smart & what is likely two Top 10 picks from Memphis plus whatever filler.
This is largely due to the fact that a Top 10 pick as The Ringer states "In the lottery era, according to DraftExpress’s tabulation, about half of players picked in the 6-10 range never become consistent starters, let alone All-Stars or better, while more than two-thirds of players picked 11-15th never do."
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/2/5/18211132/trade-future-first-round-pick-value-kristaps-porzingis-new-york-knicks

My point is people place significant value on draft picks but the actual return from those picks is not nearly as high as one might think, an aspect of the Boston package which is in doubts greater than the Lakers.
Availability bias often contributes to the misconception that a 1st round draft pick offers the best return but imo I think that is somewhat overvalued and this seems like one of those scenarios.

I meant excuses from “The King” as much as the Lakers.

If his or their talent evaluation is so bad they have no one to blame but themselves. If all of these players play better when they leave LA then again questions have to be asked.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I think he was definitely consulted on which players they were going to sign. But no I don't think he was barking orders. If he was he would have chosen to surround himself with 4 shooters like he has done in every single team he has won with.

Magic and Pelinka put forth an idea on how to beat the Warriors and to take the strain off of Lebron and he gave his blessing towards it.

You don’t know that (re. the shooters), and nor do I. Maybe he thought “shooters isn’t working, I’ll try a different route” for all we know.

Magic and Pelinka don’t have the calls to say no to LeBron on the evidence we’ve seen. The damage bring done now may not be repairable this year or next, even if they land AD. I can’t imagine anyone who’s been mentioned in trade talks and stats being happy.

5star02707

Lakers bench be like

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I meant excuses from “The King” as much as the Lakers.

If his or their talent evaluation is so bad they have no one to blame but themselves. If all of these players play better when they leave LA then again questions have to be asked.

Sorry, there was no mention of LBJ by Jono so I didn't quite get what relevance TBH.
Cool, it's fine to ask questions of the Lakers organisation as it was fine to ask questions of OKC after Oladipo made such strides but I don't quite get what Russell or even Randle's post-Lakers production has to do with LBJ, they were both pre-LBJ era decisions, one might make some type of loose connection to Randle if you're really clutching but anything Russell related is completely unrelated.

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

You don’t know that (re. the shooters), and nor do I. Maybe he thought “shooters isn’t working, I’ll try a different route” for all we know.

Magic and Pelinka don’t have the calls to say no to LeBron on the evidence we’ve seen. The damage bring done now may not be repairable this year or next, even if they land AD. I can’t imagine anyone who’s been mentioned in trade talks and stats being happy.

I do know because it has been spoken about on numerous podcasts, Laker Film Room Podcast, Locked on Lakers and Lakersnation podcast. Lebron was consulted about the players but was on holiday during this whole period. Magic told him about the strategy at the meeting they had, he stated that their isn't enough shooters on the market to match what the Warriors do and that they should consider a different option in the short term. Lebron was willing to see what the Lakers young core had this year and hoping him being there would be enough for them to make a deep playoff run.

I think Lebron has definitely been more hands on and demanding since his injury, him realising that he isn't super human and that he is getting older definitely pushed up the time line for him, I think Magic and Pelinka agree with Lebron and are making moves to win now rather than next year.

Also the players getting unsettled works both ways, you don't think the Celtics young players all know they are on the block at the start of next season? The same number of players have come up in every Boston Scenario: Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier and Robert Williams. You think they aren't listening to that and getting unsettled knowing that they could be out of their in July.

jonok28

Stanley Johnson being traded to the Bucks for Thon Maker. Interesting deal for both teams. I can't see Maker getting the playing time he wants with Griffin and Drummond in the line up.

bot43

So last nights trip to 6ers. Someone mentioned they are a loud crowd. Bloody hell are they loud. They took serious umbrage to the ref early which was fun. When the foul on the 3 late on was called which effectively ended the game I thought the place was going to riot. Never heard such noise.

On the game itself it was very good as a neutral. Raps controlled the game from the off. Kawai was just awesome. Powerful with the ball and scored with ease each time. Lowry and Ibaka impressed me too. Embiid was reasonably off colour for long stretches unfortunately.

So this week I’ve seen Bucks, Raps, 6ers. As a team Raps impressed the most. The player who impressed me most was Giannis. Incredible v Wizards.

Friday I close out my holiday with Wizards v Cavs. Should be something.

ButtersSuki

bot43 wrote: »

So last nights trip to 6ers. Someone mentioned they are a loud crowd. Bloody hell are they loud. They took serious umbrage to the ref early which was fun. When the foul on the 3 late on was called which effectively ended the game I thought the place was going to riot. Never heard such noise.

On the game itself it was very good as a neutral. Raps controlled the game from the off. Kawai was just awesome. Powerful with the ball and scored with ease each time. Lowry and Ibaka impressed me too. Embiid was reasonably off colour for long stretches unfortunately.

So this week I’ve seen Bucks, Raps, 6ers. As a team Raps impressed the most. The player who impressed me most was Giannis. Incredible v Wizards.

Friday I close out my holiday with Wizards v Cavs. Should be something.

Nice trip, glad you enjoyed it and got to see so many star players in such a short space of time. You can very lucky like that sometimes....or get Wizards v Cavs.

Shame about your last game! :pac::rolleyes:;)Lol.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I do know because it has been spoken about on numerous podcasts, Laker Film Room Podcast, Locked on Lakers and Lakersnation podcast. Lebron was consulted about the players but was on holiday during this whole period. Magic told him about the strategy at the meeting they had, he stated that their isn't enough shooters on the market to match what the Warriors do and that they should consider a different option in the short term. Lebron was willing to see what the Lakers young core had this year and hoping him being there would be enough for them to make a deep playoff run.

I think Lebron has definitely been more hands on and demanding since his injury, him realising that he isn't super human and that he is getting older definitely pushed up the time line for him, I think Magic and Pelinka agree with Lebron and are making moves to win now rather than next year.

Also the players getting unsettled works both ways, you don't think the Celtics young players all know they are on the block at the start of next season? The same number of players have come up in every Boston Scenario: Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier and Robert Williams. You think they aren't listening to that and getting unsettled knowing that they could be out of their in July.

My point being you know the narrative that's been put out there.....not necessarily what the actual conversations were. A nuanced point.

I get what you're saying in a way but the Celtics players aren't going out and losing by 40+ to Indiana despite any Kyrie distractions etc. There's clearly a better coaching structure in Boston, and I'd argue culture, and those things go a long way to minimising the kind of issues LA seem to be having right now.

I don't think any one player having the kind of power LeBron has is a good thing for his team, his team mates - or even him TBH. Jordan didn't have it, Duncan didn't have it, no-one really has. As I said before he's been a poor talent evaluator, and if the Kidd/Jackson rumours are true he's a poor coaching evaluator too. "LeBron as GM" has been poor, this is more of it.