NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I'm probably going to catch alot of flack for this but Brian Windhorst made a very interesting comment last night. He likened what the Pelicans did in destabilizing the Lakers Chemistry, forced them to include virtually all different members of the squad and had zero interest in actually dealing with the Lakers, in turn forcing them to play out a season in which the whole team will be in a state of flux and team chemistry might be hard to build back up, he likened it to a form of tampering. Initially I was like I'm not sure if I agree as Magic and Pelinka went into the talks with a willingness to trade whatever necessary but if the Pelicans literally had no interest at any point in making a deal and just wanted to cause maximum damage to another organisation then. Tampering means to interfere with (something) in order to cause damage or make unauthorized alterations. By definition it could be considered tampering.

So in your eyes the Pelicans should be punished and charged with tampering BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TRADE A PLAYER THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO TRADE?!!!!

What on earth are you talking about? Seriously?

Quite simply the most ridiculous thing ever said in the Basketball Forum - and I'm including all the John Wall craziness from a few years back in that.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO TRADE HIM!!!!! LA can make all the offers they want - they could even offer LeBron and 50 picks New Orleans don't have to trade him.

New Orleans didn't "force" LA to do anything.

Simmons said on this that New Orleans is owned by the same family that own the Saints. Demps reports to the Saints Football Chief Exec. In Louisiana, it's Saints Football first, LSU football second, and everything else a distant third. The Pelicans have the worst following in the league etc. (having spent time there I can confirm all of this). The attitude amongst football execs would be very different to basketball and they keep their players until the very end of their contracts. These mid-contract trades don't happen anywhere near as often as in Football as they do in Basketball as no team wants to be seen to be helping the competition. Their attitude would be very much "f*ck 'em", not what can we get out of this. They (Klutch and Co.) underestimated the football guys and got outsmarted or outbluffed - however you want to describe it.

And just ignore ALL of the actual tampering Klutch/Leron/Paul did on this from the timing of the release (qo days before trade deadline) to their comments. I'm thrilled they didn't get him - and I'm saying that even if they get him this summer or in 2020, because of the way they went about it.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

You think LBJ has been the athlete that has been given the most free passes history? That can't be a serious statement.

That might be the most hyperbolic statement pertaining to LBJ that I've ever read.

The fact that you honestly think that LBJ's behaviour throughout his playing career warrants that title is honestly astonishing.

He has been an absolutely model athlete on and off the court through his on court behaviour and philanthropy.

I've never said anything bad about his philanthropy. I've actually praised him for it. That doesn't give him a pass on everything else though.

What I'm referring to is his history of destabilising franchises - and this has been discussed at length on here previously.

He's a coach killer. Blatt, trying to get Walton fired etc. He tried to get Spo fired too don't forget.

The decision, how it was handled and the consequences for the Cavs afterwards.

The Jewish comments.

The "I am The GOAT" comments.

The ego.

The failures.

I disagree on your model athlete statement though. If you're taking a narrow view of how he takes care of his body etc. then maybe. But, he held the Cavs to ransom and refused to allow them to plan anything for the future by his refusal to sign anything but 1 year deals. He crippled them by hiring his superfriends on overpaid LONGER deals and then bolted. So he wanted player control and to be the pseudo-GM when it suited him, then when asked to commit or even what his plans were he gave the "Oh I just work here line". Even Windhorst has been hugely critical of this - and Windhorst is arguably the journalist who knows LeBron best and certainly the longest. He was hugely critical of LeBron leaving the first time, but even more so the 2nd time because of how he did it. He said that for the last few years he refused to engage with the front office on anything other than players he wanted.

I could go on.

Yet he's fawned over by so many US journalists in particular who give him a pass for all of the above.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I've never said anything bad about his philanthropy. I've actually praised him for it. That doesn't give him a pass on everything else though.

What I'm referring to is his history of destabilising franchises - and this has been discussed at length on here previously.

He's a coach killer. Blatt, trying to get Walton fired etc. He tried to get Spo fired too don't forget.

The decision, how it was handled and the consequences for the Cavs afterwards.

The Jewish comments.

The "I am The GOAT" comments.

The ego.

The failures.

I disagree on your model athlete statement though. If you're taking a narrow view of how he takes care of his body etc. then maybe. But, he held the Cavs to ransom and refused to allow them to plan anything for the future by his refusal to sign anything but 1 year deals. He crippled them by hiring his superfriends on overpaid LONGER deals and then bolted. So he wanted player control and to be the pseudo-GM when it suited him, then when asked to commit or even what his plans were he gave the "Oh I just work here line". Even Windhorst has been hugely critical of this - and Windhorst is arguably the journalist who knows LeBron best and certainly the longest. He was hugely critical of LeBron leaving the first time, but even more so the 2nd time because of how he did it. He said that for the last few years he refused to engage with the front office on anything other than players he wanted.

I could go on.

Yet he's fawned over by so many US journalists in particular who give him a pass for all of the above.

Notwithstanding all of the above, even if I grant you all of it (even though I don't) but you still believe that he has been given more free passes than any athlete in history?

That remains your stance?

irishguitarlad

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Notwithstanding all of the above, even if I grant you all of it (even though I don't) but you still believe that he has been given more free passes than any athlete in history?

That remains your stance?

I have to agree with Buttersuki as well, LeBron is like the sacred cow of the NBA, watch Espn and you'll have jaylen rose, Stephen a Smith and these guys absolutely lick the balls off of him.

Hitch2222

irishguitarlad wrote: »

I have to agree with Buttersuki as well, LeBron is like the sacred cow of the NBA, watch Espn and you'll have jaylen rose, Stephen a Smith and these guys absolutely lick the balls off of him.

So everything else that has been brushed under the carpets that athletes have done such as sexual related charges, domestic violence and worse are all superseded by the type of behaviour which LBJ has been given "free passes" on?

I said the statement that LBJ has been given more free passes than any player in history is the most hyperbolic statement I've ever read in relation to him.

Butters has somewhat attempted to back track it seems by claiming he was alluding to his destabilization of franchises which I would have been happy to accept but given he further referenced the racial comments LBJ made, I'm happy to again conclude that his original statement was all encompassing and therefore is ridiculous.

Osmosis Jones

Just watched the All Star draft, LeBron isn't exactly subtle literally selecting EVERY upcoming free agent this summer, I mean he even selected Klay Thompson as his second reserve pick

Hitch2222

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Just watched the All Star draft, LeBron isn't exactly subtle literally selecting EVERY upcoming free agent this summer, I mean he even selected Klay Thompson as his second reserve pick

Quality from Giannis too

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/1093664702482268160?s=20

Osmosis Jones

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Quality from Giannis too

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/1093664702482268160?s=20

He had a few good lines, Shaq struggling to pronounce his name and he says "Just call me Superman"

Hitch2222

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

He had a few good lines, Shaq struggling to pronounce his name and he says "Just call me Superman"

He's very cool tbf. I really hope he continues to get better, it would be nice to see him get a couple of MVPs & Titles

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Exactly halfway through the regular season Portland still haven't won a game while trailing at the end of the 3rd, and have won every game while leading at the end of the 3rd.

This streak is still going by the way, 33-0 when leading after 3 and 0-21 while trailing after 3 :pac:

LuckyLloyd

Crazy finish in Boston last night, Rondo as clutch as ever. Lakers were down 18 at one point so to come back and win with a buzzer beater after getting blown out will be the key turning point if they manage to go on and make the playoffs

Hitch2222

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Crazy finish in Boston last night, Rondo as clutch as ever. Lakers were down 18 at one point so to come back and win with a buzzer beater after getting blown out will be the key turning point if they manage to go on and make the playoffs

I think this is a question which shouldn't have to be asked from a logical standpoint but do you think that if they meet GSW in the 1st round and get bounced 4-0, 4-1 etc which seems like a probabilistic result that it actually does more harm to their ability to attract some FA's and to a lesser extent LBJ's legacy?

They're probably two separate questions which could have two different responses, more interested in the first part tbh but my thoughts on first part would be the perception of getting beaten by GSW in Round 1 may be less valuable than making the playoffs?

I tend to think that the primary benefit could be that a younger player (Tatum last year) plays exceptionally well and increases their trade value but as an attractive FA destination I'm not convinced that any value is added by losing in R1.

A caveat to that is perhaps we have reached a point now where there is ubiquitous agreement that GSW are almost unbeatable without a significant change in their or someone else's roster.
Side thought is that perhaps it is even worse to get bounced in R1 by the Nuggets.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

So everything else that has been brushed under the carpets that athletes have done such as sexual related charges, domestic violence and worse are all superseded by the type of behaviour which LBJ has been given "free passes" on?

I said the statement that LBJ has been given more free passes than any player in history is the most hyperbolic statement I've ever read in relation to him.

Butters has somewhat attempted to back track it seems by claiming he was alluding to his destabilization of franchises which I would have been happy to accept but given he further referenced the racial comments LBJ made, I'm happy to again conclude that his original statement was all encompassing and therefore is ridiculous.

I'm not backtracking on anything.

I hate this point of view that if you're not beating up women or engaging in sexual assault or worse you should get a medal for that! That's the baseline for being a decent human FFS.

You can have your own opinion all you like, but don't attempt to try and explain mine.

2 other things:
Look at how he's screwed up this season for the Lakers now. From the AD debacle to effectively destroying the locker-room now. But again he'll claim it's nothing to do with him. t was jet lag in Indianapolis apparently. :rolleyes: And young players should stay off social media right now - why is that LeBron? So they eon't see your posts begging Kyrie to join you in LA?

And the travels. The thousands of travels he's gotten over his career and continues to get a free pass on.

But yoiu'll prob claim he's never travelled now.

jonok28

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I think this is a question which shouldn't have to be asked from a logical standpoint but do you think that if they meet GSW in the 1st round and get bounced 4-0, 4-1 etc which seems like a probabilistic result that it actually does more harm to their ability to attract some FA's and to a lesser extent LBJ's legacy?

They're probably two separate questions which could have two different responses, more interested in the first part tbh but my thoughts on first part would be the perception of getting beaten by GSW in Round 1 may be less valuable than making the playoffs?

I tend to think that the primary benefit could be that a younger player (Tatum last year) plays exceptionally well and increases their trade value but as an attractive FA destination I'm not convinced that any value is added by losing in R1.

A caveat to that is perhaps we have reached a point now where there is ubiquitous agreement that GSW are almost unbeatable without a significant change in their or someone else's roster.
Side thought is that perhaps it is even worse to get bounced in R1 by the Nuggets.

All players want to play playoff basketball, if you make the playoffs you are automatically a more attractive location for most players. Regarding Lebron if he was to lose to the Warriors, Lets make this clear, NO ONE expects Lebron to beat the Warriors with the Lakers team as currently constructed, even if Lebron had gotten Anthony Davis people would have still thought that its not enough to beat the Warriors but they would have had significantly more expectation. The Warriors should and would win unquestionably in a 7 game series, I think the Lakers might steal one game maybe two if Lebron and the rest of their team play out of their mind but I don't think they would hold it against the Lakers losing to one of the greatest teams in modern NBA History.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

All players want to play playoff basketball, if you make the playoffs you are automatically a more attractive location for most players. Regarding Lebron if he was to lose to the Warriors, Lets make this clear, NO ONE expects Lebron to beat the Warriors with the Lakers team as currently constructed, even if Lebron had gotten Anthony Davis people would have still thought that its not enough to beat the Warriors but they would have had significantly more expectation. The Warriors should and would win unquestionably in a 7 game series, I think the Lakers might steal one game maybe two if Lebron and the rest of their team play out of their mind but I don't think they would hold it against the Lakers losing to one of the greatest teams in modern NBA History.

Well then the League could disqualify GS because they're too good and it's tampering to not LeBron win, right?

:rolleyes:

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm not backtracking on anything.

I hate this point of view that if you're not beating up women or engaging in sexual assault or worse you should get a medal for that! That's the baseline for being a decent human FFS.

You can have your own opinion all you like, but don't attempt to try and explain mine.

2 other things:
Look at how he's screwed up this season for the Lakers now. From the AD debacle to effectively destroying the locker-room now. But again he'll claim it's nothing to do with him. t was jet lag in Indianapolis apparently. :rolleyes: And young players should stay off social media right now - why is that LeBron? So they eon't see your posts begging Kyrie to join you in LA?

And the travels. The thousands of travels he's gotten over his career and continues to get a free pass on.

But yoiu'll prob claim he's never travelled now.

I dunno, team Chemistry looked pretty good to me last night when they beat the Celtics

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Well then the League could disqualify GS because they're too good and it's tampering to not LeBron win, right?

:rolleyes:

Every word you just said is absolutely true, Adam Silver should banish the Golden State Warriors and anyone who opposes the Lebron Regime to the Phantom Zone or Mordor.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

Every word you just said is absolutely true, Adam Silver should banish the Golden State Warriors and anyone who opposes the Lebron Regime to the Phantom Zone or Mordor.

I was clearly being sarcastic. You however weren't when you suggested that NO should be done for tampering with LA.

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I was clearly being sarcastic. You however weren't when you suggested that NO should be done for tampering with LA.

I was half joking but being so vindictive and malicious to go out of your way just to unsettle an entire roster and try to destroy a teams chemistry for no other reason then a player asking to leave your team because you as an organisation have not done enough to help him win and blaming the Lakers, his agent and Lebron for the fact that the Pelicans have been on the backburner for the Benson family and have been a terribly run organisation. I will fully admit that the Pelicans from their point of view couldn't have played this better. I'm sure most if not all of the NBA are applauding them for sticking it to the Lakers.

According to Adam Himmelsbach of The Boston Globe, some within the Pelicans’ organization want to get the Anthony Davis trade done before the deadline. However, owner Gayle Benson and vice president Mickey Loomis are reportedly more focused on the New Orleans Saints and are “unfazed by the noise.”

The sheer fact that the owners don't really care about the Pelicans speaks volumes. I can't wait til they trade Davis and the Bensons sell the team and go to Seattle and the Pelicans organisation ceases to exist. Am I being petty? absolutely but I'm being no more petty then a Professional Basketball Organisation based in New Orleans.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm not backtracking on anything.

I hate this point of view that if you're not beating up women or engaging in sexual assault or worse you should get a medal for that! That's the baseline for being a decent human FFS.

You can have your own opinion all you like, but don't attempt to try and explain mine.

2 other things:
Look at how he's screwed up this season for the Lakers now. From the AD debacle to effectively destroying the locker-room now. But again he'll claim it's nothing to do with him. t was jet lag in Indianapolis apparently. :rolleyes: And young players should stay off social media right now - why is that LeBron? So they eon't see your posts begging Kyrie to join you in LA?

And the travels. The thousands of travels he's gotten over his career and continues to get a free pass on.

But yoiu'll prob claim he's never travelled now.

What are you talking about? I never even remotely claimed that LBJ should be given anything for not beating up women? Are you having a laugh?

I responded to your wildly hyperbolic claim that LBJ has been given more free passes than any athlete in history, by a mile. That's all I responded to and my conclusion is that that comment in light of your subsequent responses remains as I originally said absolutely ridiculous.

You responded that you were referring to his attempts at destabilizing franchises which I acknowledged as being something I was more than willing to accept.

However, you continued in your utterances by referencing LBJ's Jewish comments, a comment which I assume we can all agree is irrelevant to an argument regarding the destabilization of a franchise.

Given you were perfectly happy to weigh the (lack of)repercussions LBJ faced from those comments as rationale for your claim that LBJ has been given more free passes than any athlete in history, I think it's more than fair to submit the claims that it is clearly a ridiculous conclusion to reach given that they pale in comparison to a wide variety of proven transgressions that are far worse than anything LBJ has done.
Therefore, I think it is so glaringly transparently clear that LBJ should be excluded from anything remotely close to the claim you made that LBJ has been given more free passes than any athlete in history.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

What are you talking about? I never even remotely claimed that LBJ should be given anything for not beating up women? Are you having a laugh?

I responded to your wildly hyperbolic claim that LBJ has been given more free passes than any athlete in history, by a mile. That's all I responded to and my conclusion is that that comment in light of your subsequent responses remains as I originally said absolutely ridiculous.

You responded that you were referring to his attempts at destabilizing franchises which I acknowledged as being something I was more than willing to accept.

However, you continued in your utterances by referencing LBJ's Jewish comments, a comment which I assume we can all agree is irrelevant to an argument regarding the destabilization of a franchise.

Given you were perfectly happy to weigh the (lack of)repercussions LBJ faced from those comments as rationale for your claim that LBJ has been given more free passes than any athlete in history, I think it's more than fair to submit the claims that it is clearly a ridiculous conclusion to reach given that they pale in comparison to a wide variety of proven transgressions that are far worse than anything LBJ has done.
Therefore, I think it is so glaringly transparently clear that LBJ should be excluded from anything remotely close to the claim you made that LBJ has been given more free passes than any athlete in history.

I wasn't saying the Jewish comments were related to destabilising franchises....they're separate issues - obviously.

Glad you didn't disagree on the travelling though.

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I was half joking but being so vindictive and malicious to go out of your way just to unsettle an entire roster and try to destroy a teams chemistry for no other reason then a player asking to leave your team because you as an organisation have not done enough to help him win and blaming the Lakers, his agent and Lebron for the fact that the Pelicans have been on the backburner for the Benson family and have been a terribly run organisation. I will fully admit that the Pelicans from their point of view couldn't have played this better. I'm sure most if not all of the NBA are applauding them for sticking it to the Lakers.

According to Adam Himmelsbach of The Boston Globe, some within the Pelicans’ organization want to get the Anthony Davis trade done before the deadline. However, owner Gayle Benson and vice president Mickey Loomis are reportedly more focused on the New Orleans Saints and are “unfazed by the noise.”

The sheer fact that the owners don't really care about the Pelicans speaks volumes. I can't wait til they trade Davis and the Bensons sell the team and go to Seattle and the Pelicans organisation ceases to exist. Am I being petty? absolutely but I'm being no more petty then a Professional Basketball Organisation based in New Orleans.

It's hilarious you see New Orleans saying no to a trade they do not have to make as

being so vindictive and malicious to go out of your way just to unsettle an entire roster and try to destroy a teams chemistry

but don't see what LeBron/Klutch/Paul did by getting Davis to say he wanted to be traded 10 days before the trade deadline + 1 year before his contract is up

AS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

ButtersSuki

jonok28 wrote: »

I was half joking but being so vindictive and malicious to go out of your way just to unsettle an entire roster and try to destroy a teams chemistry for no other reason then a player asking to leave your team because you as an organisation have not done enough to help him win and blaming the Lakers, his agent and Lebron for the fact that the Pelicans have been on the backburner for the Benson family and have been a terribly run organisation. I will fully admit that the Pelicans from their point of view couldn't have played this better. I'm sure most if not all of the NBA are applauding them for sticking it to the Lakers.

According to Adam Himmelsbach of The Boston Globe, some within the Pelicans’ organization want to get the Anthony Davis trade done before the deadline. However, owner Gayle Benson and vice president Mickey Loomis are reportedly more focused on the New Orleans Saints and are “unfazed by the noise.”

The sheer fact that the owners don't really care about the Pelicans speaks volumes. I can't wait til they trade Davis and the Bensons sell the team and go to Seattle and the Pelicans organisation ceases to exist. Am I being petty? absolutely but I'm being no more petty then a Professional Basketball Organisation based in New Orleans.

You're assuming that they don't. Most commentators (almost all) said that keeping Davis until the summer is what's best in the Pelican's interest (i.e. not dealing him to LA now); but it seems only LA fans think they should do what is't in their own interests and instead do what serves the Lakers interest best instead. It's just insane logic.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I wasn't saying the Jewish comments were related to destabilising franchises....they're separate issues - obviously.

Glad you didn't disagree on the travelling though.

Your points all over the place here but in response to your ridiculous travelling point.

I didn't respond because I felt it was such a blatantly disingenuous effort to straw man my argument and it had no place in the discussion.

It's quite clear to anyone that you concluding that LBJ should be viewed as having been given more free passes than any athlete in history while leveraging his travelling and in the same breath uttering that repercussions of his racial comments as both being elements of the rationale is clearly absurd to the nTH degree.

ButtersSuki

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Your points all over the place here but in response to your ridiculous travelling point.

I didn't respond because I felt it was such a blatantly disingenuous effort to straw man my argument and it had no place in the discussion.

It's quite clear to anyone that you concluding that LBJ should be viewed as having been given more free passes than any athlete in history while leveraging his travelling and in the same breath uttering that repercussions of his racial comments as both being elements of the rationale is clearly absurd to the nTH degree.

What is your definition of a free pass then?

Because you're the one who brought up sexual assault and beating up women. I didn't bring any of that or his philanthropy into it.

You also seem to be giving him a pass on the Jewish comments - correct me if I'm wrong?

My definition FWIW is he's judged differently than other players, he gets away with stuff no-one else would. I don't think you'd disagree vehemently on that? Or maybe you would? In some people's eyes he can do no wrong. I'm not one of those.

I particularly dislike the "if LeBron loses it's because he has no help, but if he wins it's 100% down to him" narrative that has developed in recent years, largely as a way of staving off criticism on the many finals losses.

jonok28

ButtersSuki wrote: »

It's hilarious you see New Orleans saying no to a trade they do not have to make as

being so vindictive and malicious to go out of your way just to unsettle an entire roster and try to destroy a teams chemistry

but don't see what LeBron/Klutch/Paul did by getting Davis to say he wanted to be traded 10 days before the trade deadline + 1 year before his contract is up

AS EXACTLY THE SAME THING. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let's just get things straight and these are pretty much facts. Anthony Davis hired Rich Paul. If he was happy with his agent and the Pelicans organisation he would have stayed with his previous agent and continued to play the rest of his career as a Pelican and no one would have blamed him for that in fact they would have praised him for his loyalty to New Orleans.

Fact: According to Woj the Pelicans were never going to trade Davis before July

Fact: According to Brain Windhorst. They entered in negotiations with the Lakers in bad faith because they blamed the Lakers for tampering when even though DAVIS SIGNED WITH KLUTCH BECAUSE HE WANTED TO MOVE. No one moves agents if they are happy in the situation they are in.

Fact: Every single team in the NBA tampers, how do you think so many deals at Free Agency are done at 12:01??? Teams back channel all the time and have deals done long before the trade deadline.

I will fully agree that the Pelicans were under no obligation to trade Davis but they also gave his representation and by proxy Davis the impression that they would take the Request seriously and would find the best deal for themselves in the process. Not only did they not take his request seriously but they went out of their way to make Davis and Klutch think that they would consider moving him to the Lakers if the right offer came in when they always knew they were going to wait til July. Say what you want about the Lakers but that's being vindictive against your own player. The sheer fact that the Pelicans wanted to sit Davis for the year to help there draft stock shows that they are fully content to let him gather dust so they can get a higher draft pick. According to Woj the only reason why he will play this season is that Davis was willing to file a grievance request to the league against NO for sitting a healthy Superstar and openly tanking.

Davis also gave the Pelicans time to try and make moves that would help them win but he saw a situation where after 7 years they had not done enough to help him win, ( they also failed Chris Paul in this regard).

Look, I'm obviously annoyed the Lakers didn't land him , I will fully admit the Lakers did behave poorly. But the Pelicans have behaved badly also.

Hitch2222

ButtersSuki wrote: »

What is your definition of a free pass then?

Because you're the one who brought up sexual assault and beating up women. I didn't bring any of that or his philanthropy into it.

You also seem to be giving him a pass on the Jewish comments - correct me if I'm wrong?

My definition FWIW is he's judged differently than other players, he gets away with stuff no-one else would. I don't think you'd disagree vehemently on that? Or maybe you would? In some people's eyes he can do no wrong. I'm not one of those.

I particularly dislike the "if LeBron loses it's because he has no help, but if he wins it's 100% down to him" narrative that has developed in recent years, largely as a way of staving off criticism on the many finals losses.

Yes, you are absolutely completely and utterly wrong that I am giving him a free pass on those Jewish comments. I simply highlighted that if they're in play as a rationale for determining he has received more free passes than any athlete in history, then there must be an abundance of other disgraceful transgressions that can be used to determine your "more free passes than any athlete in history comment"

Frankly I think it's absolutely disgraceful that you are alluding to me condoning the use of them because I did not remotely say that whatsoever. You were the one who brought up those comments and used them as leverage in concluding that LBJ received more free passes than anyone in history.
I simply stated that if you happy to submit them as evidence for reaching that conclusion that there are other athlete transgressions such as physical violence against women which are clearly worse than those comments which athletes have gotten away with.
It doesn't mean he shouldn't have been punished, I actually highlighted the (lack of) repercussions for what he said.

You should be extremely careful when making accusations about people even on an open forum.
I didn't remotely conclude that you believe anything you claimed about LBJ superseded any of the actions I concluded were worse.

I'm finished this conversation because that is absolutely ridiculous and so incredibly reckless on your part to say such a thing.

LuckyLloyd

I’ve no doubt that players in the league are smart enough to look at the Lakers, the fact LeBron missed a key stretch of games that hammered their seeding and put an ultimate 1st round exit in context.

I guarantee LeBron, Rondo et al will all rather they make the playoffs than not.

Regarding LeBron’s legacy, he said himself recently that he’s no longer chasing anything in the league. He’s done it all, we’re into bonus territory here. Another couple of finals runs will be cool if they happen.

LuckyLloyd

Hitch2222 wrote: »

Your points all over the place here but in response to your ridiculous travelling point.

I didn't respond because I felt it was such a blatantly disingenuous effort to straw man my argument and it had no place in the discussion.

It's quite clear to anyone that you concluding that LBJ should be viewed as having been given more free passes than any athlete in history while leveraging his travelling and in the same breath uttering that repercussions of his racial comments as both being elements of the rationale is clearly absurd to the nTH degree.

You’re wasting your time. Butter’s posting history on LeBron is twisted in hate. There’s no middle ground to be found here.

Hitch2222

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You’re wasting your time. Butter’s posting history on LeBron is twisted in hate. There’s no middle ground to be found here.

I largely have no problem whatsoever with his LBJ related opinions. I simply spotted a blatantly illogical argument and felt it was worth calling out.

That said, my main issue now is his attempt to undermine my argument by concluding that I am giving LBJ a free pass on his Jewish comments even though I made a contrary point if anything and I think that type of disingenuous and undermining discourse is ridiculous.