Poppy

con___manx1

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I would and i do.

thats fair enough its your choice.
do you think its fair to ask Irish people to wear a poppy ?
what do you think the British people would say if they were asked to wear a symbol that represented all the German service men that fought in past wars.

I think they would say **** off to be honest and I wouldn't blame them.

we should have our own symbol here.

Timberrrrrrrr

con___manx1 wrote: »

thats fair enough its your choice.
do you think its fair to ask Irish people to wear a poppy ?

No one is "asking" irish people to wear one though, if you see a poppy seller in Dublin you can easily walk by, if you feel you would like to buy one in remembrance of a relative who fought/died in WW1 then buy one. Its not compulsory.

what do you think the British people would say if they were asked to wear a symbol that represented all the German service men that fought in past wars.

Im sure the majority would refuse to buy/wear one.

I think they would say **** off to be honest and I wouldn't blame them.

we should have our own symbol here.

I'm sure some Neanderthals would abuse the sellers but for the most part the population would just ignore the sellers.

People seem to think that every British person buys a poppy, they don't and honestly lads if you're not wearing a poppy you dont get asked why not, no ones throwing rotton fruit or spitting on you in the streets for the lack of one.

I lived most of my life in Dublin and to hear me talk you would think i was a native. I live in cheshire and often drinknin warrington in a bar close to where the IRA let off 2 bombs. In my 2 years going there not a single person has ever said a negative word to me about the irish.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No one is "asking" irish people to wear one though, if you see a poppy seller in Dublin you can easily walk by, if you feel you would like to buy one in remembrance of a relative who fought/died in WW1 then buy one. Its not compulsory.



Im sure the majority would refuse to buy/wear one.



I'm sure some Neanderthals would abuse the sellers but for the most part the population would just ignore the sellers.

People seem to think that every British person buys a poppy, they don't and honestly lads if you're not wearing a poppy you dont get asked why not, no ones throwing rotton fruit or spitting on you in the streets for the lack of one.

I lived most of my life in Dublin and to hear me talk you would think i was a native. I live in cheshire and often drinknin warrington in a bar close to where the IRA let off 2 bombs. In my 2 years going there not a single person has ever said a negative word to me about the irish.

There are plenty who want a criticism free ride for the poppy though and we see them on these threads every year.

I would apply the word Neanderthal to those who cheer an army and all the actions and members of that army - whatever they do. And that is any army.
And essentially that is what the poppy does.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are plenty who want a criticism free ride for the poppy though and we see them on these threads every year.

I would apply the word Neanderthal to those who cheer an army and all the actions and members of that army - whatever they do. And that is any army.
And essentially that is what the poppy does.

Does that include yourself with your shameless defence of the IRA?

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Does that include yourself with your shameless defence of the IRA?

franciebrady wrote:

all the actions and members of that army - whatever they do. And that is any army.

I don't defend the IRA's actions, nor do I wear any symbol that cheers them on or supports them.

atticu

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are plenty who want a criticism free ride for the poppy though and we see them on these threads every year.

I would apply the word Neanderthal to those who cheer an army and all the actions and members of that army - whatever they do. And that is any army.
And essentially that is what the poppy does.

You attach a lot of things to the poppy, and that is your right and opinion.
A lot of people don’t attach these things to the poppy, which is their right and opinion.

If you expect others to respect your opinion, you need to start by respecting other people’s opinions.

FrancieBrady

atticu wrote: »

You attach a lot of things to the poppy, and that is your right and opinion.
A lot of people don’t attach these things to the poppy, which is their right and opinion.

If you expect others to respect your opinion, you need to start by respecting other people’s opinions.

You need to respect my right, as a sovereign equal member of this state, to criticise something that I feel requires criticism.
'A lot of people' are living in cuckoo land if they think that publicly and demonstratively supporting and cheering an army that did so much damage in this state is not going to draw criticism.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't defend the IRA's actions, nor do I wear any symbol that cheers them on or supports them.

I can honestly say i have yet to meet an English person who supports every single action of the BA.

And sorry Francie but you certainly have defended some of the IRA's most heinous atrocities.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I can honestly say i have yet to meet an English person who supports every single action of the BA.

Those who wear a poppy bought from the RBL do. Read what the RBL is.

Stop trying to diminish that. There are no 'exceptions' written on the back of the poppy. It is what it is.

And sorry Francie but you certainly have defended some of the IRA's most heinous atrocities.

I was against all the violence during the conflict. I never supported the actions of any of the players, in the past, now or in the future.

If you wear a poppy you certainly support the past, present and future actions of the British army, don't fool yourself or try to fool us.

corner of hells

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You need to respect my right, as a sovereign equal member of this state, to criticise something that I feel requires criticism.
'A lot of people' are living in cuckoo land if they think that publicly and demonstratively supporting and cheering an army that did so much damage in this state is not going to draw criticism.

You want your right to criticise something you disagree with to be respected which is fair enough but your happy to call someone who has different view to yourself a Neanderthal.

whisky_galore

Lol the poppy always puts the wind up the barstool Republicans. Esp the ones that were in nappies or were a twinkle in the postman's eye during the troubles...never fired a shot in their lives and only saw guns in pictures.

FrancieBrady

corner of hells wrote: »

You want your right to criticise something you disagree with to be respected which is fair enough but your happy to call someone who has different view to yourself a Neanderthal.

'Criticism' - you do understand what that is?

I think some of the poppy fascism that we have seen - it was on display very vocally in the Aviva last night - was Neanderthal tbh.

It applies equally to those who go around shouting 'Up The 'RA' to enflame and insult and hurt, too.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Those who wear a poppy bought from the RBL do. Read what the RBL is.

No francie that is your interpretation of it.

Stop trying to diminish that. There are no 'exceptions' written on the back of the poppy. It is what it is.

The majority of people who buy/wear a poppy do so in rememberance of loved ones who fought/died in WW1, It's only die hard bar stool republicans like yourself who put their own spin on what the poppy means to people who you don't even know.

I was against all the violence during the conflict. I never supported the actions of any of the players, in the past, now or in the future.

Your posting history in every single IRA/SF thread says different!

If you wear a poppy you certainly support the past, present and future actions of the British army, don't fool yourself or try to fool us.

The only part if your post that is correct, i wear it for my great grandfather who fought in thebtrenches in WW1, whi got gassed and eventually died from that in the 70's as it ruined his lungs. This is a man who also fought in WW2 and lost a leg due to gangrene.

My grandfather also fought in WW2 and was one of then1st paratroopers into Eindhoven for operation market garden, he was also returned home badly wounded (shot 4 times)but lived to a ripe age of 88.


Those are the people i buy my poppy for, to remember them and the sacrifices they made for me and my children so we could have a future.

But I'm sure you will twist/spin what i have said to try shoehorn in your own agenda.

ohnonotgmail

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No francie that is your interpretation of it.



The majority of people who buy/wear a poppy do so in rememberance of loved ones who fought/died in WW1, It's only die hard bar stool republicans like yourself who put their own spin on what the poppy means to people who you don't even know.





Your posting history in every single IRA/SF thread says different!



The only part if your post that is correct, i wear it for my great grandfather who fought in thebtrenches in WW1, whi got gassed and eventually died from that in the 70's as it ruined his lungs. This is a man who also fought in WW2 and lost a leg due to gangrene.

My grandfather also fought in WW2 and was one of then1st paratroopers into amsterdam for operation market garden, he was also returned home badly wounded (shot 4 times)but lived to a ripe age of 88.


Those are the people i buy my poppy for, to remember them and the sacrifices they made for me and my children so we could have a future.

But I'm sure you will twist/spin what i have said to try shoehorn in your own agenda.

Slight correction: Arnhem not Amsterdam. But spot on apart from that.

Timberrrrrrrr

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Slight correction: Arnhem not Amsterdam. But spot on apart from that.

It was actually Eindhoven he went to i got mixed up as he told me so much abiut the war as a little lad.

ohnonotgmail

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It was actually Eindhoven he went to i got mixed up as he told me so much abiut the war as a little lad.

ah, he was american then.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No francie that is your interpretation of it.



The majority of people who buy/wear a poppy do so in rememberance of loved ones who fought/died in WW1, It's only die hard bar stool republicans like yourself who put their own spin on what the poppy means to people who you don't even know.





Your posting history in every single IRA/SF thread says different!



The only part if your post that is correct, i wear it for my great grandfather who fought in thebtrenches in WW1, whi got gassed and eventually died from that in the 70's as it ruined his lungs. This is a man who also fought in WW2 and lost a leg due to gangrene.

My grandfather also fought in WW2 and was one of then1st paratroopers into Eindhoven for operation market garden, he was also returned home badly wounded (shot 4 times)but lived to a ripe age of 88.


Those are the people i buy my poppy for, to remember them and the sacrifices they made for me and my children so we could have a future.

But I'm sure you will twist/spin what i have said to try shoehorn in your own agenda.

Nobody is trying to diminish your right to remember.

To do it, using a poppy (a manifest support for the actions of the BA anywhere, past and present and future) is the problem.

I have no issue, for instance, with those attending respectful ceremonies.

I do have a problem with those who consciously support or who willfully ignore the implications of what an RBL poppy is or what the money is supporting.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody is trying to diminish your right to remember.

To do it, using a poppy (a manifest support for the actions of the BA anywhere, past and present and future) is the problem.

I have no issue, for instance, with those attending respectful ceremonies.

[B[I do have a problem [/b]with those who consciously support or who willfully ignore the implications of what an RBL poppy is or what the money is supporting.

And therein lies the issue, it's your personal interpretation of what the poppy represents because you have taken a sentence from the RBL website and run with it. No matter what people say their reasons are for wearing a poppy you will add your spin to it to suit your agenda.

If that's what you think and how you feel then thats your problem but don't come in here and preach to people and tell them what they are doing is wrong just because that is your belief.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And therein lies the issue, it's your personal interpretation of what the poppy represents because you have taken a sentence from the RBL website and run with it. No matter what people say their reasons are for wearing a poppy you will add your spin to it to suit your agenda.

If that's what you think and how you feel then thats your problem but don't come in here and preach to people and tell them what they are doing is wrong just because that is your belief.

This is a bit like trying to validate the wearing of a swastika because you personally like the shape it makes.

A poppy bought from the RBL supports the actions of the BA, past present and future.
There is no ambiguity. It is what it is.

And it is getting bigger and more demonstrative and the poppy fascists are getting louder.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is a bit like trying to validate the wearing of a swastika because you personally like the shape it makes.

No its not! This is about peoples remembrance of their ancestors who fought in WW1 & 2.

A poppy bought from the RBL supports the actions of the BA, past present and future.
There is no ambiguity. It is what it is.

So you keep claiming, just because you shout this every 2nd or 3rd post does not make it true though.

And it is getting bigger and more demonstrative and the poppy fascists are getting louder.

Again with the "poppy facist" line :rolleyes:

When was the last time you were personally abused for not wearing a poppy? Are there poppy police walking the streets checking to make sure people are wearing them?

Again francie, just because you claim something or believe it to be true does not mean that it is true out here in the real world.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No its not! This is about peoples remembrance of their ancestors who fought in WW1 & 2.



So you keep claiming, just because you shout this every 2nd or 3rd post does not make it true though.



Again with the "poppy facist" line :rolleyes:

When was the last time you were personally abused for not wearing a poppy? Are there poppy police walking the streets checking to make sure people are wearing them?

Again francie, just because you claim something or believe it to be true does not mean that it is true out here in the real world.

So, because I have not been abused for not wearing a poppy, abuse doen't exist?

Did you watch the match last night? :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A poppy bought from the RBL supports the actions of the BA, past present and future.

No, it really doesn't. As others have said,this is your own interpretation of it.

The Poppy remembers those that served in the armed forces, most of whom would be well regarded members of their local community.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So, because I have not been abused for not wearing a poppy, abuse doen't exist?

Did you watch the match last night? :rolleyes:

I didnt, but i will refer back to my earlier post about a few neanderthals shouting abuse.

Should all be tarred with the same brush due to a tiny minority of idiots?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So, because I have not been abused for not wearing a poppy, abuse doen't exist?

Did you watch the match last night? :rolleyes:

I did and I felt completely and utterly abused. Nothing to do with poppies or flegs, or booing of anthems, just the absolute pile of ****e it was.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I didnt, but i will refer back to my earlier post about a few neanderthals shouting abuse.

Should all be tarred with the same brush due to a tiny minority of idiots?

No. And I never said they should.
It was you who suggested that this abuse was non existent or negligible. It isn't.
Even the queen has been criticised for not wearing it when the fascists believe she should.
It is getting completely out of hand. And the same abuse (see thread) is heaped on anyone who criticises the wearing of it here where the British Army's actions still have very negative consequences for many many people.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No. And I never said they should.
It was you who suggested that this abuse was non existent or negligible. It isn't.
Even the queen has been criticised for not wearing it when the fascists believe she should.

Well as someone who lives in the UK i havent seen nor heard any of it yet you seem.to think its widespread.

It is getting completely out of hand. And the same abuse (see thread) is heaped on anyone who criticises the wearing of it here where the British Army's actions still have very negative consequences for many many people.

If the poppy bothers you so much then stay away from all things English, no one forces you to watch UK tv channels or join the poppy threads yet here you are every year spouting the same nonsense.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well as someone who lives in the UK i havent seen nor heard any of it yet you seem.to think its widespread.



If the poppy bothers you so much then stay away from all things English, no one forces you to watch UK tv channels or join the poppy threads yet here you are every year spouting the same nonsense.

I am commenting on it being worn here mainly. And the spread of the fascism around it. The clamour to shut up criticism of wearing it here is getting louder.
It will always be a hurtful thing to wear publicly here as long as it's purchase supports the BA. Plenty of respectful non-intrusive ways to remember.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am commenting on it being worn here mainly. And the spread of the fascism around it. The clamour to shut up criticism of wearing it here is getting louder.
It will always be a hurtful thing to wear publicly here as long as it's purchase supports the BA.

where is "here" roughly?

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where is "here" roughly?

This island. Ireland.

c.p.w.g.w

It is acceptable to wear the easter lily in england?

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This island. Ireland.

I can honestly say i have never seen poppy facism in ireland. In fact i see very few poppys at all. you must be in a very different part of ireland to me.

FrancieBrady

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It is acceptable to wear the easter lily in england?

Only an insensitive, crass, neanderthal would wear it in a community that suffered.
I would believe it would not be acceptable. It isn't imo acceptable to wear it here where it would offend or hurt.

c.p.w.g.w

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It is acceptable to wear the easter lily in england?

You'd be lucky if anyone in England had any idea what it was and someone wearing it would be barely noticed.

c.p.w.g.w

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Only an insensitive, crass, neanderthal would wear it in a community that suffered.
I would believe it would not be acceptable. It isn't imo acceptable to wear it here where it would offend or hurt.

But its acceptable to wear the poppy?

Aren't the Poppy & Easter Lily both a symbol to remember those lost in war, fighting for each of their own cause

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I can honestly say i have never seen poppy facism in ireland. In fact i see very few poppys at all. you must be in a very different part of ireland to me.

It isn't a huge thing, but look at the pure vitriol from some here if you criticise it.

Coincidentally they are in the main the same posters who will defend the actions of the BA here on this island, who claim to only want to remember WW1 veterans/dead. :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't a huge thing, but look at the pure vitriol from some here if you criticise it.

Coincidentally they are in the main the same posters who will defend the actions of the BA here on this island, who claim to only want to remember WW1 veterans/dead. :rolleyes:

you have a very odd idea of what "poppy facism" is. For me it is people getting abuse for not wearing one. I have only seen the opposite on this thread.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am commenting on it being worn here mainly. And the spread of the fascism around it. The clamour to shut up criticism of wearing it here is getting louder.

Have never heard of anyonein ireland being accosted on the street for not wearing one, in fact in all the years i lived in Dublin ans wore one it was never an issue.

It will always be a hurtful thing to wear publicly here as long as it's purchase supports the BA. Plenty of respectful non-intrusive ways to remember.

And yet not a single word is said to those who wear it, its only a tiny minority like yourself who have an issue, everyone else just gets on with their lives.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you have a very odd idea of what "poppy facism" is. For me it is people getting abuse for not wearing one. I have only seen the opposite on this thread.

'Fascism' can be insidious as well as overt. Abuse need not be physical as some are trying to divert to here.

If 'remembrance' is your reason for publicly wearing one here, why can you not accept how hurtful and insulting it is to those who remember clearly and have actual experience of what the BA did here?

You simply are not having respect for that 'remembrance' and selectively triumphing your own.

Put all public symbols in a drawer here and remember respectfully.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Fascism' can be insidious as well as overt. Abuse need not be physical as some are trying to divert to here.

If 'remembrance' is your reason for publicly wearing one here, why can you not accept how hurtful and insulting it is to those who remember clearly and have actual experience of what the BA did here?

You simply are not having respect for that 'remembrance' and selectively triumphing your own.

Put all public symbols in a drawer here and remember respectfully.

Yet in this thread

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057923797/1

You had no issue with SF publicly remembering a man who blew up innocent men women and children without a thought to how hurtful and insulting it would be to their families.

Double standards indeed francie.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You need to respect my right, as a sovereign equal member of this state, to criticise something that I feel requires criticism.
.

That's great, as you are now the most prolific poster in this years and last years thread, I think we are all pretty clear on your opinion on the matter. I don't think you can claim that we have not heard you or that you have been silenced in any way.

You are free to criticise, others, in turn, are free to ignore you and continue on with their lives wearing a poppy if they so choose. Others are also free to criticise you in return. That is how it works.

It does not matter how many times you post and get on that soapbox, this does not change the nature of the issue. It is a free country and people are free to wear a poppy if they so choose to.

markodaly

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Your posting history in every single IRA/SF thread says different!

100% correct. In the Kingsmill thread, he tried in vain to justify the tactics and violence the PIRA used.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yet in this thread

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057923797/1

You had no issue with SF publicly remembering a man who blew up innocent men women and children without a thought to how hurtful and insulting it would be to their families.

Double standards indeed francie.

I have no issue with remembrance. Is there something wrong with your inability to read what is being said.

All communities must be allowed to remember respectfully.

When one community/player deliberately does it to taunt and hurt, then that is wrong and deserves to be criticised.

And I believe the poppy does hurt, because it is a public symbol of support for the BA actions, in the past and present.

markodaly

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yet in this thread

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057923797/1

You had no issue with SF publicly remembering a man who blew up innocent men women and children without a thought to how hurtful and insulting it would be to their families.

Double standards indeed francie.

This quote is comedy gold.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108502425&postcount=30

Get out and see the world. COmmunities that have been in conflict remember their dead the world over. Armies do too.

The conflict/war here is over. Every one - on all sides - requires the space to remember their dead.

So, a memorial to remember the Shankhill Bomber - good
The poppy - evil and bad.

/thread

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no issue with remembrance. Is there something wrong with your inability to read what is being said.

All communities must be allowed to remember respectfully.

When one community/player deliberately does it to taunt and hurt, then that is wrong and deserves to be criticised.

And I believe the poppy does hurt, because it is a public symbol of support for the BA actions, in the past and present.

The fact that you cant even see that a memorial to a terrorist and bomber could possibly be hurtful speaks volumes of your lack of empathy and cop on, to be honest.

You cant square that circle.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no issue with remembrance. Is there something wrong with your inability to read what is being said.

You obviously do have an isuue with other peoples rememberance

All communities must be allowed to remember respectfully.

And the poppy to English people is exactly that

When one community/player deliberately does it to taunt and hurt, then that is wrong and deserves to be criticised.

Like wearing a loaf of kingsmill bread on your head on the day of the kingsmill massacre say?

And I believe the poppy does hurt, because it is a public symbol of support for the BA actions, in the past and present.

As you keep spouting, but thats all it is, your belief.

Mookie Blaylock

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have no issue with remembrance. Is there something wrong with your inability to read what is being said.

All communities must be allowed to remember respectfully.

When one community/player deliberately does it to taunt and hurt, then that is wrong and deserves to be criticised.

And I believe the poppy does hurt, because it is a public symbol of support for the BA actions, in the past and present.

Sounds like we'll be changing the Easter lilly to a Snowflake as people are feeling so hurt

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

The fact that you cant even see that a memorial to a terrorist and bomber could possibly be hurtful speaks volumes of your lack of empathy and cop on, to be honest.

You cant square that circle.

It was a remembrance at a gravestone. That a newspaper sensationally reported on it is par for the course, when republicans do it.

I don't have a problem with remembrance ceremonies. You can choose to attend or not.

A public wearing of a symbol of support is a different thing.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You obviously do have an isuue with other peoples rememberance

I don't believe people who support the wearing of poppies here do it to solely to remember. A co-incidence that they are also notable defenders of the BA here? Nope.

And the poppy to English people is exactly that

It is also support for the BA, if you pay the RBL. Fact.

Like wearing a loaf of kingsmill bread on your head on the day of the kingsmill massacre say?

As I said very clearly at the time, if he did it deliberately to hurt the survivors of a massacre I have always condemned, then HE DESERVES JAIL TIME.

As I argued, there was simply no evidence to suggest that a man who had never before engaged in this kind of taunting suddenly decided to, 20 years after the event.
The evidence pointed to him engaging in another innocuous silly joke, that he is known for.

As you keep spouting, but thats all it is, your belief.

Yes, it is my belief, and this is a discussion forum. You wouldn't be trying to silence me by any chance?:D

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was a remembrance at a gravestone. That a newspaper sensationally reported on it is par for the course, when republicans do it.

It was actually a commemoration to remember the 'brave and fallen' as SF put it.

I don't have a problem with remembrance ceremonies. You can choose to attend or not.

Nor do I. If you want to commemorate a bomber who murdered kids, be my guest but don't expect an easy ride.

A public wearing of a symbol of support is a different thing.

Ah so you don't believe in freedom of choice, conscience, and expression. It is a free country Frankie, whether you like it or not. To quote you back..

Every one - on all sides - requires the space to remember their dead.

For some, that means wearing a Poppy.

You cannot square that circle.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The evidence pointed to him engaging in another innocuous silly joke, that he is known for.

Just happened to be an anniversary of the massacre, he was the real victim in all this.